N2002 Lowes: bottoming out in 2

This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with. most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car bottoms out and I loop it. I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as predictably as I do in 2. Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice about how to deal with the problem. I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height. Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem with least impact to the rest of the setup. Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold. Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned down low. TIA, Gerald

Raising the height is the "lesser of two evils", but it may slow you down very slightly. Personally, I'd opt for the springs. -John "Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with. > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car > bottoms out and I loop it. > > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as > predictably as I do in 2. > > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice > about how to deal with the problem. > > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height. > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem > with least impact to the rest of the setup. > > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold. > > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned > down low. > > TIA, > Gerald

I go for the ride height as it tends to have less effect on the handling. -- __________ Steve Levett "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Raising the height is the "lesser of two evils", but it may slow you down > very slightly. > Personally, I'd opt for the springs. > > -John > > > "Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with. > > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed > > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car > > bottoms out and I loop it. > > > > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as > > predictably as I do in 2. > > > > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice > > about how to deal with the problem. > > > > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height. > > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem > > with least impact to the rest of the setup. > > > > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold. > > > > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you > > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back > > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned > > down low. > > > > TIA, > > Gerald > >

I'd raise the ride height as it will affect less other things. I would, however, do it by lowering the ride height at the opposite corner. I'd at least try that first, if that doesn't work, I'd reset and then raise the ride height at the affected corner (likely the RF on a D-oval like Lowe's). I was having a problem bottoming out anywhere 'outside' the groove at Chicagoland in a league race last week using Bob Stanley's setup there and a good buddy of mine, Ed White (runs RASCAR with you guys) told me to lower the LR ride height to pickup the RF a little and it solved the problem. I could run in low if needed and never bottomed out again. HTH "Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with. > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car > bottoms out and I loop it. > > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as > predictably as I do in 2. > > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice > about how to deal with the problem. > > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height. > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem > with least impact to the rest of the setup. > > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold. > > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned > down low. > > TIA, > Gerald

The best way to fix the problem is to raise the car. After finding a weird bug with the car height I did some experimenting. Against all logic raising the car at the super speedways will make it go faster. Thinking it was because maybe I was scraping the car and slowing it down I kept raising it and it kept going slightly faster. Its possible Papy was considering spring bind into the formula but somehow I don't think so. If you are practising by yourself the car will work fine but get into a 3 or 4 car draft and the extra speed will increase the downforce and will bottom the car out if your springs are too low. I will give you another bug the toe-in isn't modelled correctly in the game. Experiment with incorrect values and you may find some interesting speed increases. :-) Of course the two items above need to have the setups re-adjusted to take advantage of them. If you raise the height of the car it will tighten up the setup and accentuate body roll and weight transfer. The shocks usually have to be changed to get the most out of the increased weight transfer. The braking will also change and may require braking sooner that you normally would. But it will increase the amount of work the chassis is doing and should result in faster exit speeds on the corners. Hope it helps. Pete "Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with. > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car > bottoms out and I loop it. > > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as > predictably as I do in 2. > > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice > about how to deal with the problem. > > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height. > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem > with least impact to the rest of the setup. > > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold. > > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned > down low. > > TIA, > Gerald

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_40F8.50106$[email hidden]... > The best way to fix the problem is to raise the car. After finding a > weird bug with > the car height I did some experimenting. Against all logic raising thecar > at the super > speedways will make it go faster. Oh crap pete... explaining just another bug will take another advantage away from the IN CROWD... lol Expect the rath of Burnette as he will start losing his advantages... don wilshe

Stiffen the springs, best-safest way to fix that. Then find other ways to get it to turn. What are you running 70 clear? My best is 29.870. "Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with. > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car > bottoms out and I loop it. > > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as > predictably as I do in 2. > > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice > about how to deal with the problem. > > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height. > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem > with least impact to the rest of the setup. > > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold. > > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned > down low. > > TIA, > Gerald

Stiffen the springs, best-safest way to fix that. Then find other ways to get it to turn. What are you running 70 clear? My best is 29.870. "Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with. > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car > bottoms out and I loop it. > > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as > predictably as I do in 2. > > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice > about how to deal with the problem. > > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height. > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem > with least impact to the rest of the setup. > > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold. > > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned > down low. > > TIA, > Gerald

Raising the fronts of the car is what is making it faster. Similar to how the real guys qualify at Tona or Dega. I am ASSUMING it is somehow modeling that the spoiler is getting out of the wind. Totally screwed up IMHO, but those bugs you mention only the tip of an iceberg there are a few other major ones as well. But, hey.... The "in" crowd likes to be artificially competitive LOL. Bill / Amish on Team Brickyard www.iracingfx.com "Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_40F8.50106$[email hidden]... > The best way to fix the problem is to raise the car. After finding a > weird bug with > the car height I did some experimenting. Against all logic raising thecar > at the super > speedways will make it go faster. Thinking it was because maybe I was > scraping the > car and slowing it down I kept raising it and it kept going slightlyfaster. > Its possible > Papy was considering spring bind into the formula but somehow I don'tthink > so. > If you are practising by yourself the car will work fine but get intoa

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> 3 or 4 car > draft and the extra speed will increase the downforce and will bottom the > car out > if your springs are too low. > I will give you another bug the toe-in isn't modelled correctly in the > game. Experiment > with incorrect values and you may find some interesting speed increases.

:-) > Of course the two items above need to have the setups re-adjusted to > take advantage > of them. If you raise the height of the car it will tighten up the setupand > accentuate body > roll and weight transfer. The shocks usually have to be changed to get the > most out of > the increased weight transfer. The braking will also change and mayrequire > braking sooner > that you normally would. But it will increase the amount of work thechassis

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> is doing and > should result in faster exit speeds on the corners. > Hope it helps. > > Pete > > "Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with. > > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed > > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car > > bottoms out and I loop it. > > > > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as > > predictably as I do in 2. > > > > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice > > about how to deal with the problem. > > > > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height. > > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem > > with least impact to the rest of the setup. > > > > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold. > > > > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you > > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back > > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned > > down low. > > > > TIA, > > Gerald > >

"Don Wilshe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:pv8F8.509169$[email hidden]...

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> > "Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:_40F8.50106$[email hidden]... > > The best way to fix the problem is to raise the car. After finding a > > weird bug with > > the car height I did some experimenting. Against all logic raising the > car > > at the super > > speedways will make it go faster. > > > Oh crap pete... explaining just another bug will take another advantage > away from the IN CROWD... > > lol > > Expect the rath of Burnette as he will start losing his advantages... > > don wilshe >

I showed no wrath, simply a friendly debate. I really am very easy to get along with... Don Burnette

Troublemaker. ;) -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3ce57501$[email hidden]... > Raising the fronts of the car is what is making it faster. Similar to how > the real guys qualify at Tona or Dega. I am ASSUMING it is somehow modeling > that the spoiler is getting out of the wind. Totally screwed up IMHO, but > those bugs you mention only the tip of an iceberg there are a few other > major ones as well. But, hey.... The "in" crowd likes to be artificially > competitive LOL. > > Bill / Amish on Team Brickyard > www.iracingfx.com > > > > "Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:_40F8.50106$[email hidden]... > > The best way to fix the problem is to raise the car. After finding a > > weird bug with > > the car height I did some experimenting. Against all logic raising the > car > > at the super > > speedways will make it go faster. Thinking it was because maybe I was > > scraping the > > car and slowing it down I kept raising it and it kept going slightly > faster. > > Its possible > > Papy was considering spring bind into the formula but somehow I don't > think > > so. > > If you are practising by yourself the car will work fine but get into > a > > 3 or 4 car > > draft and the extra speed will increase the downforce and will bottom the > > car out > > if your springs are too low. > > I will give you another bug the toe-in isn't modelled correctly in the > > game. Experiment > > with incorrect values and you may find some interesting speed increases. > :-) > > Of course the two items above need to have the setups re-adjusted to > > take advantage > > of them. If you raise the height of the car it will tighten up the setup > and > > accentuate body > > roll and weight transfer. The shocks usually have to be changed to get the > > most out of > > the increased weight transfer. The braking will also change and may > require > > braking sooner > > that you normally would. But it will increase the amount of work the > chassis > > is doing and > > should result in faster exit speeds on the corners. > > Hope it helps. > > > > Pete > > > > "Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with. > > > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed > > > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car > > > bottoms out and I loop it. > > > > > > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as > > > predictably as I do in 2. > > > > > > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice > > > about how to deal with the problem. > > > > > > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height. > > > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem > > > with least impact to the rest of the setup. > > > > > > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold. > > > > > > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you > > > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back > > > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned > > > down low. > > > > > > TIA, > > > Gerald > > > > > >

pfft.... :P -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote > I really am very easy to get along with... > > Don Burnette > > >

Thanks for all the information guys. Some of it was very. . . interesting. Raise ride height at supers, eh? No wonder I am so damned slow at Tally now! Now if I just had time to do some driving :( Anybody have any advice for figuring out where the car is bottoming out, ie raising which corner might be the best place to start? Strangely, it seems to be coming from the driver's side, but I can't tell which end. Maybe I am getting on the apron after all. Sure don't feel or see any transition though, it just scrapes and I am around. Thanks, Gerald "Kevin King" <kking98@<remove>cox.net> wrote in message news:<siaF8.54$[email hidden]>...

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> Stiffen the springs, best-safest way to fix that. Then find other ways to > get it to turn. What are you running 70 clear? My best is 29.870. > > > "Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with. > > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed > > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car > > bottoms out and I loop it. > > > > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as > > predictably as I do in 2. > > > > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice > > about how to deal with the problem. > > > > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height. > > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem > > with least impact to the rest of the setup. > > > > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold. > > > > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you > > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back > > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned > > down low. > > > > TIA, > > Gerald

If you are bottoming out, 95% of the time it is with the RF. Lowering LR Ride Height will increase the RF, which is why it worked for that one guy. You could stiffen the shocks, increase the front sway or increase the rear sway, and etc... Tons of different things will work. The easiest is just adjust the ride height. My goal when making setups is to get the car as close the track as possible and have it consistent thoughout the corner. Bottoming out for me, is normally the last problem I get fixed. Bill / Amish on Team Brickyard www.iracingfx.com "Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Thanks for all the information guys. Some of it was very. . . > interesting. Raise ride height at supers, eh? No wonder I am so > damned slow at Tally now! > > Now if I just had time to do some driving :( > > Anybody have any advice for figuring out where the car is bottoming > out, ie raising which corner might be the best place to start? > Strangely, it seems to be coming from the driver's side, but I can't > tell which end. Maybe I am getting on the apron after all. Sure > don't feel or see any transition though, it just scrapes and I am > around. > > Thanks, > Gerald > > > > "Kevin King" <kking98@<remove>cox.net> wrote in message

news:<siaF8.54$[email hidden]>... > > Stiffen the springs, best-safest way to fix that. Then find other waysto

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> > get it to turn. What are you running 70 clear? My best is 29.870. > > > > > > "Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with. > > > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed > > > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car > > > bottoms out and I loop it. > > > > > > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as > > > predictably as I do in 2. > > > > > > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice > > > about how to deal with the problem. > > > > > > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height. > > > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem > > > with least impact to the rest of the setup. > > > > > > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold. > > > > > > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you > > > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back > > > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned > > > down low. > > > > > > TIA, > > > Gerald

Crank up the sway-bar a bit. It might be enough. That bump coming out of turn 2 is a bitch. I can set up a nice car at Lowe's, but that damned bump keeps tossing the rear out on me. -Larry "Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> This is the only spot on the track that I am having problems with. > most laps it is OK, but if I manage to carry a great deal of speed > into 2, and if I get low enough (though not quite on the apron) my car > bottoms out and I loop it. > > I also bottom out in 1 occasionally, but not as often and not as > predictably as I do in 2. > > Obviously, I don't want to slow down... but I would like some advice > about how to deal with the problem. > > I think there are two choices: stiffer spring, and raise ride height. > Which one is the lesser of two evils in terms of solving the problem > with least impact to the rest of the setup. > > Tire temps seem ideal, except LF is about 10 deg cold. > > Most of the time I can just drive a wider line out of 2, but if you > are trying to get a run on someone out of 2 and onto the back > straight, this isn't always possible. Sometimes too, you get pinned > down low. > > TIA, > Gerald