World of Outlaws Sprint Cars :2002

Anyone else out there playing this game? Ratbag has done it again. I think it might just be the best racing game ever released on a console, even rivaling the Papy sims on a PC. Incredible physics, great AI, challenging career mode, this game has it all. Best $30 (yep, that's not a typo) I've spent on a video game. With the sheer volume of great racing titles available, and the great support for FF wheels, does anyone else feel like the PS2 is *THE* platform for racing games? Sure I still like the online capabilities on my computer, but I'm sick of the Nascar racing series. If you onw the console, buy this game. I promise you'll love it. It's even better than the previous PC version. "Buster"

Uhh, in a word, "No" > With the sheer volume of great racing titles available, and the great > support for FF wheels, does anyone else feel like the PS2 is *THE* > platform for racing games?

And to go a step farther the PS2/Xbox is what is keeping the true sims from being made. MadDAWG

Lamer. Many of us have both PC's and consoles and have found great sims on each of them. Remember, for every GPL and NR2002 on the PC there is also a Daytona USA, Midtown Madness, and Moto Racer. The platform is irrelevant, the sims are what is important. Seriously, there have been what I consider to be 3 real sims released on the PC recently. NR2002, F1 2001, and Rally Trophy. On the PS2 there is F1 2001, WoOSC:2002, and GT3. I know, most everyone here doesn't think the GT series is a real sim, but I disagree (topic for another discussion). With my MOMO wheel, the platforms are no different, and the quality of the titles available are about to surpass the PC. TOCA Pro Race Driver, CMR3.0, GT Online, and Ferrari Challenge will demonstrate this in spades. Don't be such a sheep. "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > And to go a step farther the PS2/Xbox is what is keeping the true simsfrom > being made. > > MadDAWG > >

Wasn't Pro Race Driver the game that said it was intended more for the casual (read Arcade) racer than a sim player? I'm not knocking arcade racing it can be as much fun as sim racing at times, but I don't anything to the level of GPL being released for an PS2/Xbox. Besides sims can't be raced with your thumbs :) MadDAWG

bAHHHH! Give me a break, consoles dont have it yet. Let's dont confuse cool,fun to play with simulation. I have an xbox and a PC and a friend with a PS2 and another with a Gamecube. GT3, what exactly does it simulate? What does the community think of it? Does the maker consider it a sim? F1 2001 is not near as good on the Xbox compared to a PC. I have them both and wheels for both. CMR 3.0??? Where is 1.0 and 2.0? That's right, no where because they stunk. I've tried them both. Even PC Gamer gave those a thumbs down and they gave the green light to Cart Precision Racing. I still prefer Mobil 1 Rally over those anyday. Toca Race Driver: Demo sucks Daytona USA was a console port. Midtown Madness=Microsoft Original Motoracer was great. "BH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FGtG8.5240$[email hidden]... > Lamer. Many of us have both PC's and consoles and have found great simson > each of them. Remember, for every GPL and NR2002 on the PC there is alsoa > Daytona USA, Midtown Madness, and Moto Racer. The platform is irrelevant, > the sims are what is important. > > Seriously, there have been what I consider to be 3 real sims released onthe > PC recently. NR2002, F1 2001, and Rally Trophy. On the PS2 there is F1 > 2001, WoOSC:2002, and GT3. I know, most everyone here doesn't think theGT > series is a real sim, but I disagree (topic for another discussion). > > With my MOMO wheel, the platforms are no different, and the quality of the > titles available are about to surpass the PC. TOCA Pro Race Driver,CMR3.0,

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> GT Online, and Ferrari Challenge will demonstrate this in spades. > > Don't be such a sheep. > > > "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > And to go a step farther the PS2/Xbox is what is keeping the true sims > from > > being made. > > > > MadDAWG > > > > > > >

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (RB) writes: >With the sheer volume of great racing titles available, and the great >support for FF wheels, does anyone else feel like the PS2 is *THE* >platform for racing games? No. Well, you asked...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

No. Well, you asked...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure *** cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Tue, 21 May 2002 12:19:15 -0400, "Phillip Malphrus Jr" <[email hidden]> wrote: >GT3, what exactly does it simulate? What does the community think of it? Uhh.. the GT series has, without question, the largest serious following of any racer on any platform. Here are a few hundred thousand posts about it. Take a lunch. http://forum.granturismo.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=3 http://www.granturismo.com

I have to agree that the popularity of the consoles has cut into PC development. Just look at Halo, and Star Wars: The Old Republic. Both titles originally developed for the PC, but switched mid-stream to the consoles. So it is fairly obvious that the consoles are currently the developers choice in general. So we will see many more arcade style games, since the consoles are much better suited to this type of game. However you also cannot discount the fact that hardcore sims, weither racing,flying or what ever, are just not moving off the shelves as quickly as the arcade type game. (Remember our view of the world in this respect is tinted a nice rosy shade of red.) My real fear, and I think the price war that is currently raging between the consoles points to this becoming a reality. None of these consoles are really making a killing, as none of them really have a "killer app." Nintendo sold all of those original units because of that little plumber, Sega because of that hedgehog. None of the current consoles have that type of game, where people are going to buy the console for the game. So this might cause the kind of home gaming crash we saw at the end of the 80's. This would be really a bad thing for us, because if the main stream developers go under, then there will be almost none of the kind of hardcore sim development we want. At least that is my opinion. Brit btgoss #146 in RASCAR and GROWL. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>,[email hidden]

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> (RB) writes: > > >With the sheer volume of great racing titles available, and the great > >support for FF wheels, does anyone else feel like the PS2 is *THE* > >platform for racing games? > > No. > Well, you asked...<g> > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to

cure > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a > donation. Thank you. > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"we will see many more arcade style games, since the consoles are much better suited to this type of game. However you also cannot discount the fact that hardcore sims, either racing,flying or what ever, are just not moving off the shelves as quickly as the arcade type game." As I said before Game boxes are killing true sims. Its typical of life in general really. In today's environment its pretty much a here today gone tomorrow type thing it doesn't matter if its games, music, TV, etc. What's all the rage today is old news in no time flat. Most people don't have or want to put the time into a sim. what makes it worse with a sim is you always have the few that sit in front of it 24/7 and become really damn god at it. This makes it harder for casual simmer to be competitive and is one more turn off to the them. With an arcade type title you can be up to speed in a shorter amount of time, and therefore more competitive. IMO this is an evolutionary change in the gaming market. Maybe we can get lucky and have the price war draw away the kiddies from computer gaming. Then maybe the computer gaming market can become more of a sim orientated market but al be it with fewer choices. MadDAWG

>"RB" <[email hidden]> wrote > Anyone else out there playing this game? Ratbag has done it again. I > think it might just be the best racing game ever released on a > console, even rivaling the Papy sims on a PC. Incredible physics, > great AI, challenging career mode, this game has it all. Best $30 > (yep, that's not a typo) I've spent on a video game. What about the multiplayer? <sarcasm> Oh let me guess, split screen? > With the sheer volume of great racing titles available, and the great > support for FF wheels, does anyone else feel like the PS2 is *THE* > platform for racing games? Racing "games"? perhaps, yes. Racing simulations? Absolutely not. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "we will see many more arcade style games, since the consoles > are much better suited to this type of game. However you also cannot > discount the fact that hardcore sims, either racing,flying or what ever, > are just not moving off the shelves as quickly as the arcade type game." > > As I said before Game boxes are killing true sims. Its typical of life in > general really. In today's environment its pretty much a here today gone > tomorrow type thing it doesn't matter if its games, music, TV, etc. What's > all the rage today is old news in no time flat. Most people don't have or > want to put the time into a sim. what makes it worse with a sim is you > always have the few that sit in front of it 24/7 and become really damn

god > at it. This makes it harder for casual simmer to be competitive and is one > more turn off to the them. With an arcade type title you can be up tospeed > in a shorter amount of time, and therefore more competitive. IMO this isan > evolutionary change in the gaming market. Maybe we can get lucky and have > the price war draw away the kiddies from computer gaming. Then maybe the > computer gaming market can become more of a sim orientated market but albe > it with fewer choices. > > MadDAWG > I agree with you in these posts, Dawg. A simple way to look at the situation is this: How many console 'simmers' are still playing with sims that are 4-5 years old (like, ahem, GPL). Oh wait, the PS2 and Xbox aren't even 4-5 years old, LOL! You can't count out NASCAR 2002 either, it is simply the continuation of NASCAR Racing 1, with updates in every area, but otherwise the same sim. Most sequels you find for consoles are generally new maps with different people to kill... Whoever said that you could not race a true sim with your thumbs, I may steal that one. One of the funniest and truest statements I have seen in regards to the console-sim-wannabe contingent. There are hardcore guys out there that not only think consoles are arcade games, but that us PC simmers are wannabes unless their wheel setup has a clutch pedal. I mainly run NASCAR now, so my clutchless TSW2 is on par, NASCAR cars only use a clutch to leave pit road nowadays with the Jericho trannies in use...

<snip> Uhh.. the GT series has, without question, the largest serious following of any racer on any platform. <snip> cough cough Damn near Choked on that one....LOL

In article <tLvG8.93030$[email hidden]>, "btgoss" <[email hidden]> writes: >My real fear, and I think the price war that is currently raging between the >consoles points to this becoming a reality. None of these consoles are >really making a killing, as none of them really have a "killer app." >Nintendo sold all of those original units because of that little plumber, >Sega because of that hedgehog. None of the current consoles have that type >of game, where people are going to buy the console for the game. Not even GT3 or GTA version (whatever they're on now)? If I had more(or ANY) disposable income, I *might* buy a PS2 for those 2 games... But I don't, so I can't. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Tue, 21 May 2002 18:53:33 -0400, "Glen Pittman" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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><snip> > >Uhh.. the GT series has, without question, the largest >serious following of any racer on any platform. > ><snip> > > >cough cough > >Damn near Choked on that one....LOL

You don't believe it? Name a racing game that has sold more copies _____________ Name a racing game that has attracted and continues to attract more interest, posts, etc. (www.granturismo.com) __________

Consoles are for games... PC's are for sims.. just my .02 S_K www.TeamECR.com "RB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Anyone else out there playing this game? Ratbag has done it again. I > think it might just be the best racing game ever released on a > console, even rivaling the Papy sims on a PC. Incredible physics, > great AI, challenging career mode, this game has it all. Best $30 > (yep, that's not a typo) I've spent on a video game. > > With the sheer volume of great racing titles available, and the great > support for FF wheels, does anyone else feel like the PS2 is *THE* > platform for racing games? Sure I still like the online capabilities > on my computer, but I'm sick of the Nascar racing series. > > If you onw the console, buy this game. I promise you'll love it. > It's even better than the previous PC version. > > "Buster"

That's ok boys. Forget the fact that the consoles have comparable power to most PC's, and they support FF wheels. Fact of the matter is that Ratbag has created a fantastic simulation of the WoO Sprint Cars series on the PS2. I am enjoying the hell out of it. Better than anything released recently on a PC. "Buster" "S_Kimball" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Consoles are for games... PC's are for sims.. just my .02 > > S_K > > www.TeamECR.com > > "RB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Anyone else out there playing this game? Ratbag has done it again. I > > think it might just be the best racing game ever released on a > > console, even rivaling the Papy sims on a PC. Incredible physics, > > great AI, challenging career mode, this game has it all. Best $30 > > (yep, that's not a typo) I've spent on a video game. > > > > With the sheer volume of great racing titles available, and the great > > support for FF wheels, does anyone else feel like the PS2 is *THE* > > platform for racing games? Sure I still like the online capabilities > > on my computer, but I'm sick of the Nascar racing series. > > > > If you onw the console, buy this game. I promise you'll love it. > > It's even better than the previous PC version. > > > > "Buster" > >

"SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TuyG8.149734$[email hidden]... > > Whoever said that you could not race a true sim with your thumbs, I may > steal that one. One of the funniest and truest statements I have seen in > regards to the console-sim-wannabe contingent. Yeah, but the default controller configuration on all PCs is the keyboard, so at least the consoles have analogue buttons. And you can hold a Dual Shock 2 in your hands instead of putting it on your desk. And it has built in force feedback. That is a really stupid argument. Remember, you probably race with a steering wheel and pedal set on your PC, which you went out and bought as an add-on. The steering wheel I have I can take out of my PC and plug straight into my PS2. Or I could have gone out and bought a steering wheel directly for my PS2, just like you did for your PC. The steering wheel transforms most games - Gran Turismo gets a lot more realistic, and you can actually set faster laptimes and get better awards on the License tests using a wheel. Exactly the same thing happens on the PC. The argument could be put the other way, I could say "Ha, I have a steering wheel for my PS2, and look at all those PC-sim-wannabe's racing using a keyboard!". You would realise that is a stupid argument and you would shoot me down in flames for saying it, so expect the same when the roles are reversed. The simple fact is that a console is capable of running racing sims, and it has the control method to match (if you go out and buy it). One of the most annoying things is WSC never going to be released (or is it..?), as it was in dual development for the PC and PS2. But you will calmly look over points like that because 'consoles can't do sims'. Somebody said the new consoles don't have a killer app yet, because they don't have a Mario or a Sonic. Well, I hate those little characters and most of that entire genre. Where is the PC's killer app? I can't recall a platformer with a cute face that made people buy PC's. The PC originally sold in its millions and stole the Amiga's audience because of Doom. The PS2 sold in its millions because of Gran Turismo 3 (and now Metal Gear Solid 2). The xbox sold in its hundreds (<g>) because of Halo. They do have games which make you want the console, they just don't have an annoying cartoon face staring at you. "How many console 'simmers' are still playing with sims that are 4-5 years old (like, ahem, GPL). Oh wait, the PS2 and Xbox aren't even 4-5 years old, LOL!" - SimRacer Yes, but the fact that the best sim on the PC (GPL in my opinion) is that old shows just how little the PC platform has moved on in that space of time in terms of racing sims (4-5 years is a huge amount of time in the computer industry). The PS2 can play PSone games, which are 4-5 years old, and I still play some of them, but no sims were made for the PSone (with 33Mhz - was it? - I am sure you can see why). Racing simulations are a niche (and as niches go, it's quite a small one). How many people do you know with PCs? How many are sim racers? How many have a steering wheel? Exactly. Publishers on the PC are loathe to make a racing sim simply because they are alienating most of the market before they even write "Hello, world!". It's the same on the consoles. Developers and publishers would rather write a FPS or arcade racer simply because it shifts more copies and makes them richer. That is true across all platforms (it's business sense), not just consoles. -- Nick "The overriding purpose of software is to be useful, rather than correct." John Carmack, id Software

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:44yG8.33873$[email hidden]... > >"RB" <[email hidden]> wrote > What about the multiplayer? <sarcasm> Oh let me guess, split screen? Or, maybe broadband? Multiplayer games with a full field of drivers running fixed at 60fps on a 32" screen? Or multiplayer games of GPL on a 56K updating the cars every second so you don't know you've had a crash until you are upside down, the cars randomly appear and disappear, and the ones you do see skid and jerk around the track so much you don't want to try overtaking in case you get taken out? Oh, yeah, on a 15" monitor, sat at a desk, with a couple of 0.5 Watt speakers. Yes, you can play online games through a 56K connection on the PS2 (except Windows isn't there slowing everything down), and you can use fast connections on the PC, but my point is, both PCs and consoles are equally well connected. What about null-modem? You can link up two PS2s in the same way. What about LANs? You can link PS2s together with a hub to get the same effect. PS2 broadband network has been up and running in Japan for a while(coming to US and UK in the fall), while the xbox has just gone broadband in the states. Please find out about something a little before you start criticising it. -- Nick "The overriding purpose of software is to be useful, rather than correct." John Carmack, id Software

"S_Kimball" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Consoles are for games... PC's are for sims.. just my .02 Yes, but sims are a subset of games. Games which are realistic fall into the sim category, whether they are flight sims, racing sims or anything else. I love fighting the console side of these arguments :-). Me vs the world! I'll take you all on... I have a PC and a PS2, and I think they complement each other perfectly. I don't generalise into playing one genre of games on one platform though, I just chose the games I like on an individual basis. My arguments are quite console-friendly, but that is just to balance out all of you PC-simmers who refuse to recognise the merits of other systems. Kinda like linux users... -- Nick "The overriding purpose of software is to be useful, rather than correct." John Carmack, id Software

"BH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:d5LG8.25299$[email hidden]... > That's ok boys. Forget the fact that the consoles have comparable powerto > most PC's, and they support FF wheels. > > Fact of the matter is that Ratbag has created a fantastic simulation ofthe > WoO Sprint Cars series on the PS2. I am enjoying the hell out of it. > Better than anything released recently on a PC. Well said. Who cares about the platform, it's the game or sim in question that matters. -- Nick "The overriding purpose of software is to be useful, rather than correct." John Carmack, id Software

the GT Series is still not a sim, what does it simulate? It's a sell to the masses dumbed down GAME that 90% of those so called fans drive with a gamepad. It's fun to play but can a real car achieve the speeds those cars do on those courses with that kind of braking and throttle response? In a word, "No". Is there a racing series in life that this game is supposed to be simulating? No. Copies Sold does not equal Simulation. If that is true, I will go buy Brittney Spears new video game and do some simulating of my on. "player one" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 21 May 2002 18:53:33 -0400, "Glen Pittman"<[email hidden]> wrote:

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> > ><snip> > > > >Uhh.. the GT series has, without question, the largest > >serious following of any racer on any platform. > > > ><snip> > > > > > >cough cough > > > >Damn near Choked on that one....LOL > > You don't believe it? > > Name a racing game that has sold more copies _____________ > > Name a racing game that has attracted and continues to attract > more interest, posts, etc. (www.granturismo.com) __________ > >

Survey sez, AHHHHHHHH!!!!! Sorry dude. Turn off the assists and you'll find that the performance of the vehicles is eerily accurate. I own a WRX and zipping around the tracks in GT is a remarkably similar experience. GT is an excellent driving simulator, but not a great racing sim. The AI bites and the damage model is pretty crummy. Ahhh, the joy of running hotlaps at Laguna SECA in Viper without ABS. Gotta love it. "Phillip Malphrus Jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3cebab9b$[email hidden]... > the GT Series is still not a sim, what does it simulate? It's a sell tothe

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> masses dumbed down GAME that 90% of those so called fans drive with a > gamepad. It's fun to play but can a real car achieve the speeds those cars > do on those courses with that kind of braking and throttle response? In a > word, "No". Is there a racing series in life that this game is supposed to > be simulating? No. > > Copies Sold does not equal Simulation. > > If that is true, I will go buy Brittney Spears new video game and do some > simulating of my on. > > "player one" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Tue, 21 May 2002 18:53:33 -0400, "Glen Pittman" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > ><snip> > > > > > >Uhh.. the GT series has, without question, the largest > > >serious following of any racer on any platform. > > > > > ><snip> > > > > > > > > >cough cough > > > > > >Damn near Choked on that one....LOL > > > > You don't believe it? > > > > Name a racing game that has sold more copies _____________ > > > > Name a racing game that has attracted and continues to attract > > more interest, posts, etc. (www.granturismo.com) __________ > > > > > >

In article <3cebab9b$[email hidden]>, Phillip Malphrus Jr <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> the GT Series is still not a sim, what does it simulate? It's a sell to the > masses dumbed down GAME that 90% of those so called fans drive with a > gamepad. It's fun to play but can a real car achieve the speeds those cars > do on those courses with that kind of braking and throttle response? In a > word, "No". Is there a racing series in life that this game is supposed to > be simulating? No. > > Copies Sold does not equal Simulation. > > If that is true, I will go buy Brittney Spears new video game and do some > simulating of my on. >

SPEARS SIM!!!!! [was CART SIM!!]

In article <3cebab9b$[email hidden]>, "Phillip Malphrus Jr" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>the GT Series is still not a sim, what does it simulate? It's a sell to the >masses dumbed down GAME that 90% of those so called fans drive with a >gamepad. It's fun to play but can a real car achieve the speeds those cars >do on those courses with that kind of braking and throttle response? In a >word, "No". Is there a racing series in life that this game is supposed to >be simulating? No. > >Copies Sold does not equal Simulation. > >If that is true, I will go buy Brittney Spears new video game and do some >simulating of my on.

I don't think PlayerOne was commenting on the 'simness' of the GT series. He's talking about copies sold, period. The fact that someone might not consider it a 'sim' doesn't enter into that figure. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in Besides > sims can't be raced with your thumbs :) > > MadDAWG > > Well to be fair, PCs don't come with wheels as standard, just keyboards; so that's really the pot calling the kettle black, isn't it :o) cheers John

"Phillip Malphrus Jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:3cebab9b$[email hidden]:

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> the GT Series is still not a sim, what does it simulate? It's a sell > to the masses dumbed down GAME that 90% of those so called fans drive > with a gamepad. It's fun to play but can a real car achieve the speeds > those cars do on those courses with that kind of braking and throttle > response? In a word, "No". Is there a racing series in life that this > game is supposed to be simulating? No. > > Copies Sold does not equal Simulation. > > If that is true, I will go buy Brittney Spears new video game and do > some simulating of my on.

The GT series is more of a simulation than many so called "sims" on the PC. Just because it's popular with the bleeding thumbs gang, doesn't make it any less worthy. Most objections to "arcade" handling can be placed at the feet of the extra grippy tyres. No problem, you can buy "professional" tyres with more realistic grip model and the sim becomes harder to drive, and requires a great deal of technical ability. There's no need to be a snob. I love GPL and NR2002, but I don't see GT2 as being greatly different, especially with a wheel and pedals. cheers John

"BH" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:d5LG8.25299$[email hidden]:

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> That's ok boys. Forget the fact that the consoles have comparable > power to most PC's, and they support FF wheels. > > Fact of the matter is that Ratbag has created a fantastic simulation > of the WoO Sprint Cars series on the PS2. I am enjoying the hell out > of it. Better than anything released recently on a PC. > > "Buster" >

I really enjoyed DTR-SC on the PC, and it was certainly a game that required skill in driving to be at the front of the pack. I don't see the PS2 sequel being any "worse" and like you say, almost all the console hating snobs here seem to think two things are true: 1) All PCs come bundled with TSW wheels and pedals when you buy them 2) Wheels and pedals are not available for consoles. neither is the case, much to the dismay of the "elite", I'm sure. The next time someone says "you can't race with your thumbs", you'll laugh at them trying to race using their cursor keys. As for longevity, the only reason I don't play GT2 frequently, is because I don't have custody of the TV. The only reason I don't play GT, is because they were nice enough to make a superior sequel. While GT will never have as many tracks as, eg, GPL, it does have about 600 more cars to play with. cheers John

On Wed, 22 May 2002 14:20:41 +0100, "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Yes, you can play online games through a 56K connection on the PS2 No, you can't. The PS2 has no modem.

Amen brother. You and me against the world. Have you tried WoOSC:2002 yet? Awesome game. I still play DTR on the PC only because of the online capabilities, but WoO:SC is even better than the PC version of sprint cars. Except for the online play of course. Ratbag rules! Oh, and regarding online play, my son plays Tony Hawk 3 (PS2 version) over the internet already. Neversoft supports a variety of USB ethernet adapters, which hook directly into my broadband network. The online capabilities of PS2 games will get even better once Sony releases their broadmand adapter this fall. If only GT3 came with this support... oh well. And anyone that criticizes GT3's driving physics has obviously never played the game with a Logitech FF wheel, without ABS/TCS, and using simulation tires. Just try to run a fast lap at Monaco in that 900 HP Skyline... "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Q75H8.1476$[email hidden]... > > "S_Kimball" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Consoles are for games... PC's are for sims.. just my .02 > > Yes, but sims are a subset of games. Games which are realistic fall intothe > sim category, whether they are flight sims, racing sims or anything else. > > I love fighting the console side of these arguments :-). Me vs the world! > I'll take you all on... I have a PC and a PS2, and I think they complement > each other perfectly. I don't generalise into playing one genre of gameson > one platform though, I just chose the games I like on an individual basis. > My arguments are quite console-friendly, but that is just to balance outall > of you PC-simmers who refuse to recognise the merits of other systems.Kinda

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> like linux users... > > > -- > Nick > > "The overriding purpose of software is > to be useful, rather than correct." > John Carmack, id Software > > >

JM <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > any less worthy. Most objections to "arcade" handling can be placed at the > feet of the extra grippy tyres. No problem, you can buy "professional" > tyres with more realistic grip model and the sim becomes harder to drive, > and requires a great deal of technical ability. There is an "upgrade" that gives you tires with less grip? Isn't that sort of backwards to the way career modes in most arcade games work? And yes, GT3 is an arcade racer. It's about as realistic as Porsche Unleashed, but with more cars, "real" tracks, and a deeper career mode. It's still not the quality of Viper Racing which is a notch below GPL which is a notch below N2002. Jason

"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > There is an "upgrade" that gives you tires with less grip? Not exactly. In the beginner leagues you don't have any tyre wear in any of the races (and they are only 2 laps long). As you progress on towards the endurance races, tyre degredation becomes more of a factor. There is a little display in the bottom left of the screen for your tyres, which changes colour as the tyres wear. You don't really need it (it is an optional display) because you can feel just how much grip there is at each end of the car pretty easily (which is one thing no other game is even approaching, in my opinion. No, not even GPL or N2002). So, you can go to a tyre shop and buy the tyres you want. Ultra-sticky slicks which get nailed after a few laps, or rock hard endurance tyres which can last half a race? Or anywhere in between. It's a trade-off of laptime against number of pitstops and how comfortable you are driving your car with less grip. Just like real life in fact, but then you don't thing GT is a sim. I once did a 100 lap oval race in an Elise on one set of tyres, and the feel of the car through the turns was unbeatable as the grip gradually increased as the tyres warmed up, then fell off as they lost rubber. > And yes, GT3 is an arcade racer. It's still not the > quality of Viper Racing which is a notch > below GPL which is a notch below N2002. Hmm... Kind of weird that. Yes GT3 is not as good in terms of overall physics as GPL or N2002, but why does that make it an arcade game? It has a better feel for being 'keyed in' to the road than any other sim I have ever played - in that you can accurately judge how much grip you have, rather than the 'driving on sheet ice' feel GPL has. The things that let it down are AI and crash physics. One of these is being fixed in Gran Turismo Online <g>, the other is inherent with having cars from all those manufacturers in the game. Some car manufacturers are stupid enough to think if you see one of their cars as a mangled wreck in the game, you won't buy their car in real life. Idiots. I personally feel that it is fantastic that GT3 can simulate such a wide variety of cars so accurately, from the Mini Cooper through Aston Vanquish to Formula One hybrid, when GPL and N2002 only simulate one particular style of vehicle - <g>. <Flame Retardant Suit: On> -- Nick "The overriding purpose of software is to be useful, rather than correct." John Carmack, id Software

"player one" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 22 May 2002 14:20:41 +0100, "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Yes, you can play online games through a 56K connection on the PS2 > > No, you can't. The PS2 has no modem. > >

I have played Tony Hawk 3 online here in the UK with a 56K connection. So there. <g> -- Nick "The overriding purpose of software is to be useful, rather than correct." John Carmack, id Software

"BH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:t56H8.35086$[email hidden]... > Amen brother. You and me against the world. > > Have you tried WoOSC:2002 yet? Awesome game. I still play DTR on the PC > only because of the online capabilities, but WoO:SC is even better thanthe

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> PC version of sprint cars. Except for the online play of course. Ratbag > rules! > > Oh, and regarding online play, my son plays Tony Hawk 3 (PS2 version) over > the internet already. Neversoft supports a variety of USB ethernet > adapters, which hook directly into my broadband network. The online > capabilities of PS2 games will get even better once Sony releases their > broadmand adapter this fall. If only GT3 came with this support... oh

well. > > And anyone that criticizes GT3's driving physics has obviously neverplayed > the game with a Logitech FF wheel, without ABS/TCS, and using simulation > tires. Just try to run a fast lap at Monaco in that 900 HP Skyline... There's more than one person here in defence of the consoles? Doesn't seem like it half the time... If only the PC simmers would 'sim and let sim' instead of blatantly showing off their jealousy of GT3 - <g>. -- Nick "The overriding purpose of software is to be useful, rather than correct." John Carmack, id Software

"BH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:t56H8.35086$[email hidden]... > If only GT3 came with this support... oh well. I forgot to say, that is what Gran Turismo Online is being made for.

Ahem. Mover over a little please, so I can stand next to you. ;o) "BH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:t56H8.35086$[email hidden]... > Amen brother. You and me against the world. >

In article <sGcH8.2413$[email hidden]>, "Nick" <[email hidden]> writes: >Some car manufacturers are stupid enough to think if you see one >of their cars as a mangled wreck in the game, you won't buy their car in >real life. Idiots. Nevermind that most of us will never be able to AFFORD one of the cars we play with in the game... :( I don't understand the manufacturers, either. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <sGcH8.2413$[email hidden]>, "Nick" <[email hidden]> writes: > >"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... <snip>

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>> And yes, GT3 is an arcade racer. It's still not the >> quality of Viper Racing which is a notch >> below GPL which is a notch below N2002. > >Hmm... Kind of weird that. Yes GT3 is not as good in terms of overall >physics as GPL or N2002, but why does that make it an arcade game? It has a >better feel for being 'keyed in' to the road than any other sim I have ever >played - in that you can accurately judge how much grip you have, rather >than the 'driving on sheet ice' feel GPL has. The things that let it down >are AI and crash physics. One of these is being fixed in Gran Turismo Online ><g>, the other is inherent with having cars from all those manufacturers in >the game. Some car manufacturers are stupid enough to think if you see one >of their cars as a mangled wreck in the game, you won't buy their car in >real life. Idiots. > >I personally feel that it is fantastic that GT3 can simulate such a wide >variety of cars so accurately, from the Mini Cooper through Aston Vanquish >to Formula One hybrid, when GPL and N2002 only simulate one particular style >of vehicle - <g>. > ><Flame Retardant Suit: On> > > >-- >Nick > >"The overriding purpose of software is >to be useful, rather than correct." >John Carmack, id Software > > >

Although I'd have to agree that the GT series is not exactly as realistic as say NASCAR Racing I think it falls somewhere in between. When I think arcade "Pole Position" or "Daytona USA" comes to mind, and GT3 is certainly more realistic than those two. Not having a cockpit view, IMHO, is what really sets GT3 back. That and having to drive with that damn analog stick! :) BTW, I wouldn't praise the accuracy of GT3's cars too much. Going back to GT2, I have an SVX which I've been lucky enough to get on a racetrack and it doesn't handle anything like it does in that game! I do, however, like the fact that the cars in GT feel different, you can make changes to the setups or modify them with new parts, and take the cars out on the track and FEEL the difference. This is probably the part of the game I like the most and IMHO adds to the realism. <OT post> Yes, I'm playing WoOSC2002. It's very good. </OT post> ;)

Once again, many of us have USB force feedbnack wheels, not analog sticks. Most PC's don't come with a wheel either. An analog stick (standard on the PS2) sure beats the mouse and keyboard (standard on a PC) anyway. I wish there was a cockpit view too, or at least a view with the hood visible. I do not require 100% accuracy in my sims for two reasons: 1. A cockpit view does not provide the peripheral vision that most of us utilize when really driving a vehicle. 2. Sims do not provide the physical sensation of driving fast. This was my only beef with GPL. The driving physics are outstanding (still none better), but not having the physical G-forces actually makes driving more difficult than reality. Ask any race car driver and they will say that they drive primarily by "feel". Without having the ability to provide these forces on the human body, I think it is only fair to the sim racer to provide a more forgiving driving model. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aclug7$46b$[email hidden]... > In article <sGcH8.2413$[email hidden]>, "Nick"<[email hidden]> writes:

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> > > >"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > > <snip> > > >> And yes, GT3 is an arcade racer. It's still not the > >> quality of Viper Racing which is a notch > >> below GPL which is a notch below N2002. > > > >Hmm... Kind of weird that. Yes GT3 is not as good in terms of overall > >physics as GPL or N2002, but why does that make it an arcade game? It has

a > >better feel for being 'keyed in' to the road than any other sim I haveever > >played - in that you can accurately judge how much grip you have, rather > >than the 'driving on sheet ice' feel GPL has. The things that let it down > >are AI and crash physics. One of these is being fixed in Gran TurismoOnline > ><g>, the other is inherent with having cars from all those manufacturersin > >the game. Some car manufacturers are stupid enough to think if you seeone > >of their cars as a mangled wreck in the game, you won't buy their car in > >real life. Idiots. > > > >I personally feel that it is fantastic that GT3 can simulate such a wide > >variety of cars so accurately, from the Mini Cooper through AstonVanquish > >to Formula One hybrid, when GPL and N2002 only simulate one particularstyle

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> >of vehicle - <g>. > > > ><Flame Retardant Suit: On> > > > > > >-- > >Nick > > > >"The overriding purpose of software is > >to be useful, rather than correct." > >John Carmack, id Software > > > > > > > > Although I'd have to agree that the GT series is not exactly as realistic

as say NASCAR Racing I think it falls somewhere in between. When I think arcade "Pole Position" or "Daytona USA" comes to mind, and GT3 is certainly more realistic than those two. Not having a cockpit view, IMHO, is what really sets GT3 back. That and having to drive with that damn analog stick! :) > BTW, I wouldn't praise the accuracy of GT3's cars too much. Going back toGT2, I have an SVX which I've been lucky enough to get on a racetrack and it doesn't handle anything like it does in that game! I do, however, like the fact that the cars in GT feel different, you can make changes to the setups or modify them with new parts, and take the cars out on the track and FEEL the difference. This is probably the part of the game I like the most and IMHO adds to the realism.

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> > > <OT post> > > Yes, I'm playing WoOSC2002. It's very good. > > </OT post> > > ;) > >