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Looks they made a nice deal with an interesting company.... http://www.liveforspeed.net/wtf.html and http://www.liveforspeed.net/countdown/ Now we can only hope for other models... Greetz, Jimster

Looks they made a nice deal with an interesting company.... http://www.liveforspeed.net/wtf.html and http://www.liveforspeed.net/countdown/ Now we can only hope for other models... Greetz, Jimster

Jimster wrote:

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> Looks they made a nice deal with an interesting company.... > > http://www.liveforspeed.net/wtf.html > > and http://www.liveforspeed.net/countdown/ > > Now we can only hope for other models...

Slightly old news here :) I can't get excited about another crack at simulating modern F1. The real deal with F1 is the brutal forces on the driver, dealing with the acceleration on the body, incredible braking forces allied to neck wrenching cornering forces. During all this the driver has to operate the controls and make the split second decisions and race other drivers. To facilitate all that going on computer assists help the driver operate the gears (just flick a paddle) and manage the wheelspin via traction control. Strip out the forces on the driver and it just seems like a sped up game of reactions, hit the brake markers press a button the prerequisite number of times to get down the right gear turn, bury the throttle and let the traction control do its things and keep up with the gear changes until the next corner. All very frenetic but not quite a true simulation. Try doing it the real thing and the forces will be trying to pull your feet away from the pedals and you will fighting to keep your head in the right place let alone steer precisely. Hence simulated modern F1 has an element of arcade feel because so much is lost in the simulation. Whereas the lower or older formulas have other challenges that can be simulated. Throttle control, more pronounced sliding, gear changing, fading brakes and so on rather than computers simulating computers. Of course F1 includes a hefty strategy element if that is your thing, but for me the lower formulas offers more for simulating the experience than F1 can without some serious hydraulics... Cheers Tony

jeez..what a killbuzz...:) "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eEd1g.55555$[email hidden]...

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> Jimster wrote: >> Looks they made a nice deal with an interesting company.... >> >> http://www.liveforspeed.net/wtf.html >> >> and http://www.liveforspeed.net/countdown/ >> >> Now we can only hope for other models... > > Slightly old news here :) > > I can't get excited about another crack at simulating modern F1. The real > deal with F1 is the brutal forces on the driver, dealing with the > acceleration on the body, incredible braking forces allied to neck > wrenching cornering forces. During all this the driver has to operate the > controls and make the split second decisions and race other drivers. > > To facilitate all that going on computer assists help the driver operate > the gears (just flick a paddle) and manage the wheelspin via traction > control. > > Strip out the forces on the driver and it just seems like a sped up game > of reactions, hit the brake markers press a button the prerequisite number > of times to get down the right gear turn, bury the throttle and let the > traction control do its things and keep up with the gear changes until the > next corner. All very frenetic but not quite a true simulation. > > Try doing it the real thing and the forces will be trying to pull your > feet away from the pedals and you will fighting to keep your head in the > right place let alone steer precisely. > > Hence simulated modern F1 has an element of arcade feel because so much is > lost in the simulation. > > Whereas the lower or older formulas have other challenges that can be > simulated. Throttle control, more pronounced sliding, gear changing, > fading brakes and so on rather than computers simulating computers. Of > course F1 includes a hefty strategy element if that is your thing, but for > me the lower formulas offers more for simulating the experience than F1 > can without some serious hydraulics... > > Cheers > Tony

Tony Rickard <[email hidden]> wrote in news:eEd1g.55555 $[email hidden]:

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> Hence simulated modern F1 has an element of arcade feel because so much > is lost in the simulation. > > Whereas the lower or older formulas have other challenges that can be > simulated. Throttle control, more pronounced sliding, gear changing, > fading brakes and so on rather than computers simulating computers. Of > course F1 includes a hefty strategy element if that is your thing, but > for me the lower formulas offers more for simulating the experience than > F1 can without some serious hydraulics... > > Cheers > Tony

So you crank your room up to 130 degrees F to simulate driving a Corvette at Le Mans? Must be arcade too eh? dave henrie

Dave Henrie wrote:

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> Tony Rickard <[email hidden]> wrote in news:eEd1g.55555 > $[email hidden]: > >> Hence simulated modern F1 has an element of arcade feel because so much >> is lost in the simulation. >> >> Whereas the lower or older formulas have other challenges that can be >> simulated. Throttle control, more pronounced sliding, gear changing, >> fading brakes and so on rather than computers simulating computers. Of >> course F1 includes a hefty strategy element if that is your thing, but >> for me the lower formulas offers more for simulating the experience than >> F1 can without some serious hydraulics... >> >> Cheers >> Tony > So you crank your room up to 130 degrees F to simulate driving a Corvette > at Le Mans? Must be arcade too eh?

Well you could :) Maybe a bad choice of words, I just feel modern F1 loses more in the translation to a full simulation than many other series, but its positions as the pinnacle of motorsports make it a natural choice. Cheers Tony

Timmy Ferrell wrote: > jeez..what a killbuzz...:) I guess for a veteran simmer seeing "wtf" and "holy cow" for another stab at an F1 sim seems a bit much. Of course the fact that LFS is getting a real car and a serious name at that is big news so I should curtail my dampening of enthusiasm :) Cheers Tony

[email hidden] (Tony Rickard) wrote: > Strip out the forces on the driver and it just seems like > a sped up game of reactions Agreed. I've tried hard to love the existing high speed machines in rFactor & LFS, but without the physical feedback it really does just feel like driving in "fast forward" mode. It makes me grin for a while, but it's a shallow and short-lived kind of grin, and finding the edge of grip is a lot trickier and less satisfying. However it's interesting to see the LFS team striking a deal of some kind with an F1 team. Maybe they managed to sell the "free advertising" angle and didn't have to cough up any money. Andrew McP

[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> [email hidden] (Tony Rickard) wrote: > >> Strip out the forces on the driver and it just seems like >> a sped up game of reactions > > Agreed. I've tried hard to love the existing high speed machines in > rFactor & LFS, but without the physical feedback it really does just > feel like driving in "fast forward" mode. It makes me grin for a while, > but it's a shallow and short-lived kind of grin, and finding the edge of > grip is a lot trickier and less satisfying. > > However it's interesting to see the LFS team striking a deal of some > kind with an F1 team. Maybe they managed to sell the "free advertising" > angle and didn't have to cough up any money. > > Andrew McP > > >

Wouldn't that SUCK if they could only ADVERTISE the Saub...err the BMW team? After showing that picture, they sure better be able to include an Eff one car. I wish them the best of luck. This is kinda like a recurring topic. Over the years, dating back to the Stone Age of World Circuit and Indycar Racing, F1 and rally and Nascar are the only racing series to have nearly continuous coverage. At times F1 had two licensed and several non-licensed sims...yet over and over, the most recurring cry was for a 'new' F1 sim. While Sportscars and Cart and just about every other form of racing was being neglected for multiple years, the F1 guys would continuously pine for another sim. I always found that odd. dave henrie

> However it's interesting to see the LFS team striking a deal of some > kind with an F1 team. Maybe they managed to sell the "free advertising" > angle and didn't have to cough up any money. Note that Williams BMW F1 team did a deal with Toca Race Driver 3.

"Jimster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4uc1g.379644$[email hidden]...

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> Looks they made a nice deal with an interesting company.... > > http://www.liveforspeed.net/wtf.html > > and http://www.liveforspeed.net/countdown/ > > Now we can only hope for other models... > > Greetz, > > Jimster > > > > >

ONE of the biggest things I think everyone is missing is also in the update is tyre side wall modelling !!

"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eEd1g.55555$[email hidden]...

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> Jimster wrote: >> Looks they made a nice deal with an interesting company.... >> >> http://www.liveforspeed.net/wtf.html >> >> and http://www.liveforspeed.net/countdown/ >> >> Now we can only hope for other models... > > Slightly old news here :) > > I can't get excited about another crack at simulating modern F1. The real > deal with F1 is the brutal forces on the driver, dealing with the > acceleration on the body, incredible braking forces allied to neck > wrenching cornering forces. During all this the driver has to operate the > controls and make the split second decisions and race other drivers. > > To facilitate all that going on computer assists help the driver operate > the gears (just flick a paddle) and manage the wheelspin via traction > control. > > Strip out the forces on the driver and it just seems like a sped up game > of reactions, hit the brake markers press a button the prerequisite number > of times to get down the right gear turn, bury the throttle and let the > traction control do its things and keep up with the gear changes until the > next corner. All very frenetic but not quite a true simulation. > > Try doing it the real thing and the forces will be trying to pull your > feet away from the pedals and you will fighting to keep your head in the > right place let alone steer precisely. > > Hence simulated modern F1 has an element of arcade feel because so much is > lost in the simulation. > > Whereas the lower or older formulas have other challenges that can be > simulated. Throttle control, more pronounced sliding, gear changing, > fading brakes and so on rather than computers simulating computers. Of > course F1 includes a hefty strategy element if that is your thing, but for > me the lower formulas offers more for simulating the experience than F1 > can without some serious hydraulics... > > Cheers > Tony

I see it much differently. For me, there is nothing better in sim racing than trying to push an F1 car to the *very* limit yet be perfectly smooth, hit every apex, make perfect shifts, and achieve a top lap time. Then do it over and over and over in a race. When you do it right, it's a real thrill ride. I'll never understand why people prefer slower, poorer handling cars that slide and drift. I *hate* it when I slide. Sliding tires means I've made a mistake and ruined a lap. I'm going sideways instead of forward. Also, a car that slides and drifts and is slower provides a much bigger margin for error, which *isn't* a good thing IMO. To be honest, I think the bigger margin for error is the real reason some prefer other series to F1. The biggest problem I have when in a race with any cars besides an F1 is eventually fighting off boredom. Any other car (whatever it is) just can't compare handling wise to an F1 and so I end up getting bored. Schumacher said once, "I like precise cars, I don't like these heavy things. They are so slow, and I think they are going too slow for me. I try always to do more than they can do." I'm not comparing myself to him :-) but I completely understand what he means by this statement. I also think you've way oversimplified what it takes to drive a modern F1 car. Even Lauda kept spinning when he was given the chance not too long ago. -- David G Fisher

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > > I'll never understand why people prefer slower, poorer handling cars > that slide and drift. Different strokes I guess. I can't abide the BUG look of modern F1 cars...of course the nose-less Ferrari didn't seem to bother me so I can't be too good a judge. This revives an old argument we've tossed around over the years...if F1 drivers are so good, why do they need a button to keep them at the pit lane speed? NAscar drivers can do it with nothing but a tachometer. If F1 drivers are so good, why do they need Anti-Stall technology? And we could list about every aid in the car and make some derogatory comment. But could other drivers make the turns these fellows do while adjusting the ride height button, the TC button, the brake bias button etc? F1 drivers are, if nothing else, masters of multi-tasking. I still watch F1, I still like F1, but I almost NEVER sim it. dave henrie

> If F1 drivers are so good, why do they need Anti-Stall technology? > And we could list about every aid in the car and make some derogatory > comment. But could other drivers make the turns these fellows > do while adjusting the ride height button, the TC button, the brake bias > button etc? F1 drivers are, if nothing else, masters of multi-tasking. The F1 drivers can drive without the aids,it's just slower, and more incident prone. The cars are very expensive so the owners are part of the reason for the assists, as they don't want to see there cars crashed as much as Champ cars do which don't have assists.