Sears Point - grip (or lack thereof)

Our league is about a month away from running SP in N2002, and I can't believe I haven't seen more posts about the lack of grip at this track. It's like driving on ice! In comparing the track.ini files from SP and WG, the asphalt grip level is only .05 lower at SP. I realize there are evelation changes here that will make the car lose traction and feel lighter at certain points. But even on the flat surfaces, it's really bad. I've never driven a cup car on a road course, so I can't translate this to real life. But I have to think that Papy missed the boat on the tire adhesion here. Tim Wortman North American Simulation Series www.nasscar.com

The grip feels right to me. There's several things that could cause this difference for you: 1) Weather. If it's colder, you're going to slide around more. 2) Setup. Sears Point requires a softer setup, so maybe the car bouncing around on its suspension makes it feel slippery. 3) Driving style. Maybe it's just you. :) ----------------------------------------- Dan Belcher Webmaster, http://www.gplworld.racesim.net/simcrash

Grip at Sears seems right to me, I am convinced there's nothing wrong with that. But your problem could be the ambient temps. At 'normal' temps between 70� and 96�, and winds between 0 and 12mph, I'm usually doing low 1:17's to high 1:16's both online and offline. But if a host sets temps below 60�, Sears becomes logarithmically more difficult to drive for me. Especially the rear end of the car becomes a challenge. If it's not that, I think it's really either the setup (although I do 1:17's on a regular basis with the default <fixed> setup online) or your driving. If you'd like to try my setup, you can download it here: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/joachim_trensz/ You'll also find replays there, I don't know if you'd find that helpful, but they're there if you'd like to watch them. If it's your driving, I'd suggest (honestly without wanting to be a wisecrack or to sound patronizing) that letting the ball roll is better than fighting too hard at Sears. I am under the impression that there are loads of camber changes at Sears, plus all the little hillcrests where the car becomes light. Taking those smoothly helps laptimes a lot. Achim "TimW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Our league is about a month away from running SP in N2002, and I can't > believe I haven't seen more posts about the lack of grip at this > track. It's like driving on ice! > > In comparing the track.ini files from SP and WG, the asphalt grip > level is only .05 lower at SP. I realize there are evelation changes > here that will make the car lose traction and feel lighter at certain > points. But even on the flat surfaces, it's really bad. > > I've never driven a cup car on a road course, so I can't translate > this to real life. But I have to think that Papy missed the boat on > the tire adhesion here. > > > > Tim Wortman > North American Simulation Series > www.nasscar.com

Try drive it in N4....then complain about NR2002 "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:acnq9p$r3ant$[email hidden]... > Grip at Sears seems right to me, I am convinced there's nothing wrong with > that. > > But your problem could be the ambient temps. At 'normal' temps between 70� > and 96�, and winds between 0 and 12mph, I'm usually doing low 1:17's tohigh

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> 1:16's both online and offline. > > But if a host sets temps below 60�, Sears becomes logarithmically more > difficult to drive for me. Especially the rear end of the car becomes a > challenge. > > If it's not that, I think it's really either the setup (although I do

1:17's > on a regular basis with the default <fixed> setup online) or your driving. > If you'd like to try my setup, you can download it here: > > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/joachim_trensz/ > > You'll also find replays there, I don't know if you'd find that helpful,but > they're there if you'd like to watch them. If it's your driving, I'dsuggest

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> (honestly without wanting to be a wisecrack or to sound patronizing) that > letting the ball roll is better than fighting too hard at Sears. > > I am under the impression that there are loads of camber changes at Sears, > plus all the little hillcrests where the car becomes light. Taking those > smoothly helps laptimes a lot. > > Achim > > > > "TimW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Our league is about a month away from running SP in N2002, and I can't > > believe I haven't seen more posts about the lack of grip at this > > track. It's like driving on ice! > > > > In comparing the track.ini files from SP and WG, the asphalt grip > > level is only .05 lower at SP. I realize there are evelation changes > > here that will make the car lose traction and feel lighter at certain > > points. But even on the flat surfaces, it's really bad. > > > > I've never driven a cup car on a road course, so I can't translate > > this to real life. But I have to think that Papy missed the boat on > > the tire adhesion here. > > > > > > > > Tim Wortman > > North American Simulation Series > > www.nasscar.com > >

On Sat, 25 May 2002 23:35:39 +1000, "Barney" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Try drive it in N4....then complain about NR2002 Been there.....done that....many times. If I could have the feel of how the car drives from SP N4 into the graphics of N2002, I'd be a happy camper. Tim Wortman North American Simulation Series www.nasscar.com

Thanks Achim. I took your advice and downloaded setups from yours and a couple other sites. I must admit that up to now, all my tests have been ran with the default setups (not the fastest, but usually pretty stable default setups for the road circuits in previous Nascar releases). They did help to stabalize the car a bit, but not to the point that I feel comfortable as I did with N4. I really don't feel my driving is to blame. While I'm not the fastest guy on the ovals, I consider myself an accomplished road racer with the stock cars. In fact, I'm really shocked that others didn't chime in with the same opinion of the grip levels here. And, I have to believe that if a WC driver sat down at my computer and TSW wheel and tried to run this track, they'de have the same opinion. Still baffled.... On Sat, 25 May 2002 12:53:07 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Grip at Sears seems right to me, I am convinced there's nothing wrong with >that. > >But your problem could be the ambient temps. At 'normal' temps between 70� >and 96�, and winds between 0 and 12mph, I'm usually doing low 1:17's to high >1:16's both online and offline. > >But if a host sets temps below 60�, Sears becomes logarithmically more >difficult to drive for me. Especially the rear end of the car becomes a >challenge. > >If it's not that, I think it's really either the setup (although I do 1:17's >on a regular basis with the default <fixed> setup online) or your driving. >If you'd like to try my setup, you can download it here: > >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/joachim_trensz/ > >You'll also find replays there, I don't know if you'd find that helpful, but >they're there if you'd like to watch them. If it's your driving, I'd suggest >(honestly without wanting to be a wisecrack or to sound patronizing) that >letting the ball roll is better than fighting too hard at Sears. > >I am under the impression that there are loads of camber changes at Sears, >plus all the little hillcrests where the car becomes light. Taking those >smoothly helps laptimes a lot. > >Achim > > > >"TimW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> Our league is about a month away from running SP in N2002, and I can't >> believe I haven't seen more posts about the lack of grip at this >> track. It's like driving on ice! >> >> In comparing the track.ini files from SP and WG, the asphalt grip >> level is only .05 lower at SP. I realize there are evelation changes >> here that will make the car lose traction and feel lighter at certain >> points. But even on the flat surfaces, it's really bad. >> >> I've never driven a cup car on a road course, so I can't translate >> this to real life. But I have to think that Papy missed the boat on >> the tire adhesion here. >> >> >> >> Tim Wortman >> North American Simulation Series >> www.nasscar.com > >

Tim Wortman North American Simulation Series www.nasscar.com

Remember, On a road course, you are not able to "stack" that car for the right hand turning. You have to balance it for left and right turns. And with SP, you have lots of ups and downs which dramatically effect the way the car "feels". :) "TimW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Thanks Achim. I took your advice and downloaded setups from yours and > a couple other sites. I must admit that up to now, all my tests have > been ran with the default setups (not the fastest, but usually pretty > stable default setups for the road circuits in previous Nascar > releases). They did help to stabalize the car a bit, but not to the > point that I feel comfortable as I did with N4. > > I really don't feel my driving is to blame. While I'm not the fastest > guy on the ovals, I consider myself an accomplished road racer with > the stock cars. In fact, I'm really shocked that others didn't chime > in with the same opinion of the grip levels here. And, I have to > believe that if a WC driver sat down at my computer and TSW wheel and > tried to run this track, they'de have the same opinion. > > Still baffled.... > > On Sat, 25 May 2002 12:53:07 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Grip at Sears seems right to me, I am convinced there's nothing wrong

with > >that. > > > >But your problem could be the ambient temps. At 'normal' temps between70� > >and 96�, and winds between 0 and 12mph, I'm usually doing low 1:17's tohigh

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> >1:16's both online and offline. > > > >But if a host sets temps below 60�, Sears becomes logarithmically more > >difficult to drive for me. Especially the rear end of the car becomes a > >challenge. > > > >If it's not that, I think it's really either the setup (although I do

1:17's > >on a regular basis with the default <fixed> setup online) or yourdriving. > >If you'd like to try my setup, you can download it here: > > > >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/joachim_trensz/ > > > >You'll also find replays there, I don't know if you'd find that helpful,but > >they're there if you'd like to watch them. If it's your driving, I'dsuggest > >(honestly without wanting to be a wisecrack or to sound patronizing) that > >letting the ball roll is better than fighting too hard at Sears. > > > >I am under the impression that there are loads of camber changes atSears,

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> >plus all the little hillcrests where the car becomes light. Taking those > >smoothly helps laptimes a lot. > > > >Achim > > > > > > > >"TimW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> Our league is about a month away from running SP in N2002, and I can't > >> believe I haven't seen more posts about the lack of grip at this > >> track. It's like driving on ice! > >> > >> In comparing the track.ini files from SP and WG, the asphalt grip > >> level is only .05 lower at SP. I realize there are evelation changes > >> here that will make the car lose traction and feel lighter at certain > >> points. But even on the flat surfaces, it's really bad. > >> > >> I've never driven a cup car on a road course, so I can't translate > >> this to real life. But I have to think that Papy missed the boat on > >> the tire adhesion here. > >> > >> > >> > >> Tim Wortman > >> North American Simulation Series > >> www.nasscar.com > > > > > > > > Tim Wortman > North American Simulation Series > www.nasscar.com

TimW wrote:

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> > Thanks Achim. I took your advice and downloaded setups from yours and > a couple other sites. I must admit that up to now, all my tests have > been ran with the default setups (not the fastest, but usually pretty > stable default setups for the road circuits in previous Nascar > releases). They did help to stabalize the car a bit, but not to the > point that I feel comfortable as I did with N4. > > I really don't feel my driving is to blame. While I'm not the fastest > guy on the ovals, I consider myself an accomplished road racer with > the stock cars. In fact, I'm really shocked that others didn't chime > in with the same opinion of the grip levels here. And, I have to > believe that if a WC driver sat down at my computer and TSW wheel and > tried to run this track, they'de have the same opinion. > > Still baffled....

I ran SP for the first time in a somewhat competitive mode last night, and I didn't really notice a lack of grip as such using the default FAST setup What I did notice though was the lack of a decent track to race on, we were going to do a quick 10 lapper for fun, but fired up Bristol instead and had a blast, and I don't even like Bristol :-) I can't believe what they've done to this track, it used to be one of my fav tracks, I'm not going back there anytime soon Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Hi Tim, I'm just guessing here, but with all the speed changes, could N2002's highly increased sensitivity to throttle input (rear wheels losing traction easier, and in a more detailed way both longitudinally and laterally) be the issue you're seeing? Reducing rear springs or bump shocks would make the throttle a bit less 'sensitive' if you perceive the rear end as being particularly different from N4. But you know that, of course. I wonder, since no one else shares your impressions, could there be a hardware or adjustment prob with your controller perhaps? I, for example, had to change the linearity settings _substantially_ from N4 (running it on 0% now, i.e. fully linear, as opposed to somewhere around 50% in N4, if I remember correctly). Achim "TimW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Thanks Achim. I took your advice and downloaded setups from yours and > a couple other sites. I must admit that up to now, all my tests have > been ran with the default setups (not the fastest, but usually pretty > stable default setups for the road circuits in previous Nascar > releases). They did help to stabalize the car a bit, but not to the > point that I feel comfortable as I did with N4. > > I really don't feel my driving is to blame. While I'm not the fastest > guy on the ovals, I consider myself an accomplished road racer with > the stock cars. In fact, I'm really shocked that others didn't chime > in with the same opinion of the grip levels here. And, I have to > believe that if a WC driver sat down at my computer and TSW wheel and > tried to run this track, they'de have the same opinion. > > Still baffled...