E-d glasses and driving sims

Has anybody any experiences with E-D Glasses ? It is simply a 3d glass system connected to your computer which works with ay game that uses direct x. I ve read reviews which claim that they are a real treat with driving and flight sims. A. Galloway

If you're referring to the E-Dimensional glasses, I have been using them for a few weeks now. They take some adjusting but they work great. I used them for an entire LAN last weekend and can report that that they caused me no discomfort at all. I had to run in a lower resolution as you do take a frame and refresh rate hit, but the 3d effect more than makes up for it. I use them prinarily for N2002 but I have also used them in GPL, as well. Best, Greg "Asko Kallonen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ad12br$cej$[email hidden]... > Has anybody any experiences with E-D Glasses ? It is simply a 3d glass > system connected to your computer which works with ay game that usesdirect > x. I ve read reviews which claim that they are a real treat with drivingand > flight sims. > > A. Galloway > >

Yup, Pretty good personally I had a lot of problems getting 'em going...but once your there they are neat....N2002 and Ghost Recon 'specially, A couple of the latest titles I have they dont like: Bridge Commander and Jedi Outcast, but all in all they are good. "Greg Avella" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3cf4151e$[email hidden]... > If you're referring to the E-Dimensional glasses, I have been usingthem > for a few weeks now. > They take some adjusting but they work great. I used them for an entire > LAN last weekend and can report that that they caused me no discomfort at > all. > I had to run in a lower resolution as you do take a frame and refresh > rate hit, but the 3d effect more than makes up for it. I use themprinarily

Quoted text (17 lines)

> for N2002 but I have also used them in GPL, as well. > Best, > Greg > "Asko Kallonen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ad12br$cej$[email hidden]... > > Has anybody any experiences with E-D Glasses ? It is simply a 3d glass > > system connected to your computer which works with ay game that uses > direct > > x. I ve read reviews which claim that they are a real treat with driving > and > > flight sims. > > > > A. Galloway > > > > > >

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.365 / Virus Database: 202 - Release Date: 5/24/02

"Asko Kallonen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ad12br$cej$[email hidden]... > Has anybody any experiences with E-D Glasses ? It is simply a 3d glass > system connected to your computer which works with ay game that usesdirect > x. I ve read reviews which claim that they are a real treat with drivingand > flight sims. > > A. Galloway Hi I decided to get a set based on the reviews you mention and some comments from ras. I took me a few days to get accustomed to stereo viewing. I could not use them for too long without getting aches. This is a normal thing, which is explained in the NVidia doc (see links below). It is caused by your eyes having to focus on the screen while looking in the distance or closer by (convergence). Usually focussing and convergence are linked, with the stereo viewing focus is at a fixed distance while convergence varies. After a few days I was accustomed to this and my eyes would adjust as soon as the stereo became active. For games that are in NVidia's database, the settings are ok first on. For games that are not there, some tweaking is necessary. You can adjust the stereo properties using defineable hot keys while the game is playing. This is explained very well in the NVidia doc. Settings can be safed for each game in the registry. The glasses themselves wear ok. I have prescription glasses and can wear the 3D glasses easily over them. The added weight is not much, despite the batteries (wireless model). The image is quite dark though, this is why the drivers have the option to increase the gamma setting (brightness) when 3D is active. I find myself upping the contrast of the monitor in addition to upping the gamma. The image gets better when lighting from the surroundings is low, like in a cinema. I find I need a refresh rate of at least 100HZ to not see flicker. My system can run 1024x768 at 100Hz or 800x600 at 140Hz. I prefer the first for the added detail, enabling to view further ahead. (In non stereo I use 1280x1024 @ 85Hz). There is some penalty in frame rate using stereo, but nothing dramatic. I run an Athlon 800 with a Geforce 3 Ti 200. Btw, stereo works for OpenGL games too, not only DirectX. A nice side effect is that the stereo has a mild FSAA effect. It provides two slightly shifted images which in your mind are blended into one. Hence the 1024x768 looks very good in stereo. The benefits in racing games are limited in my view. The track is essentially a 2D thing (even close to 1D if you like, though curling through space), and the cockpit position is very low, which makes it difficult to see perspective. The things that look best in 3D, like trees, buildings and hills, are not the things you watch while racing. Estimating distance and speed of other cars is not helped much by the 3D view. The same goes for assessing braking points. In racing games that are not in the database, mostly the convergency has to be adjusted using Ctrl-F5 and Ctrl-F6 to give the screen depth a position where the helmet glass would be. Although the glasses can display objects in front of the screen, I found it not natural to do this with the cockpit of a race car. Probably this is because the cockpit usually fills the whole width of the screen. To show it in front of the screen it would have to get even wider. In GPL, I suffered from seeing everything double in the mirrors. This was cured by setting the D3D paramater DirectMirrorRendering=0 in core.ini. However now I miss some part of the mirror image in the left mirror. In it's place is shown a mirrored image of some scenery ahead. The part becomes greater if I increase the stereo seperation. At max seperation, there is no mirror image at all in the left mirror and the effect extends to the right mirror. Apart from this, stereo in GPL works fine. Tracks with nice surroundings (the Ring!) are nice to cruise. But like I said, when you're racing there is not time to look at the surroundings! GP3, though listed at the E-Dimensional site, is not suitable because of the use of 2D graphics. This concerns the cockpit mostly. Also in a race the game slowed very much and is totally unplayable, comparable to switching on FSAA. This is using my Athlon 800. Maybe the fastest system today can handle it. It seems like E-Dimensional has confused "Tested" with "Compatible" here. GP3 is in Nvidia's database, but with a very poor rating which is correct. I am hoping that GP4 will be ok for stereo viewing. I looked briefly at Super1 Karting, F1 2002 demo, Viper, Nascar 4, Mercedes Benz Truck Racing. After adjusting the convergence for games not in NVidia's database, they looked ok. Only MBTR has the same double images in the mirror as I had in GPL. I don't know if it can be corrected in MBTR. NVidia's documentation: User's guide: http://www.nvidia.com/docs/lo/1403/SUPP/NVDetXP3DStereoUG_20.pdf Technical brief: http://www.nvidia.com/docs/lo/1404/SUPP/TB-00271-3D_Stereo.pdf Bart Westra

"Bart Westra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ad21cl$8e7$[email hidden]... > I looked briefly at Super1 Karting, F1 2002 demo, Viper, Nascar 4,Mercedes > Benz Truck Racing. After adjusting the convergence for games not inNVidia's > database, they looked ok. Only MBTR has the same double images in themirror

Quoted text (7 lines)

> as I had in GPL. I don't know if it can be corrected in MBTR. > > NVidia's documentation: > User's guide: > http://www.nvidia.com/docs/lo/1403/SUPP/NVDetXP3DStereoUG_20.pdf > Technical brief: > http://www.nvidia.com/docs/lo/1404/SUPP/TB-00271-3D_Stereo.pdf

I have a small addition: I forgot to mention ghost images that you sometimes see. This is because the left image shows faintly in the right image and vice versa. It is most obvious with bright objects. The most noticeable were the driver arms and legs and the steering wheel in GPL. After a while you get to ignore the ghost images. A bit like you ignore the boundaries of the glasses or floaters in your eyes. Also I used the glasses in the Michael Schumacher Kart demo. This game works well in 3D stereo. The surrounding, a multi layer track in a hall is more a 3D thing than an outdoor track. It is most impressive from the chase view, from the "cockpit" view (you see no cockpit) the perspective on the track is again not great. So it looks nice, but you can race just as fast without 3D stereo. I even find I can be more precise in normal mode, but that may be a matter of what one is most accustomed to. Bart Westra

Thanks a lot for this info, Bart! Achim "Bart Westra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ad21cl$8e7$[email hidden]... ... > Hi > I decided to get a set based on the reviews you mention and some comments > from ras. I took me a few days to get accustomed to stereo viewing. Icould > not use them for too long without getting aches. This is a normal thing,...

I suppose maybe this discussion arose around the review I wrote recently ... if anybody is interested it's available at: - http://www.simracingworld.com/html/srw/hreviews/edimensional/ -- ------ Paul Tomlinson SimRacingWorld Network - http://www.simracingworld.com "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ad2tb1$slu5s$[email hidden]... > Thanks a lot for this info, Bart! > > Achim > > > "Bart Westra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ad21cl$8e7$[email hidden]... > ... > > Hi > > I decided to get a set based on the reviews you mention and some comments > > from ras. I took me a few days to get accustomed to stereo viewing. I > could > > not use them for too long without getting aches. This is a normal thing, > ... > >

"Bart Westra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<ad32pr$cu4$[email hidden]>...

Quoted text (33 lines)

> "Bart Westra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ad21cl$8e7$[email hidden]... > > I looked briefly at Super1 Karting, F1 2002 demo, Viper, Nascar 4, > Mercedes > > Benz Truck Racing. After adjusting the convergence for games not in > NVidia's > > database, they looked ok. Only MBTR has the same double images in the > mirror > > as I had in GPL. I don't know if it can be corrected in MBTR. > > > > NVidia's documentation: > > User's guide: > > http://www.nvidia.com/docs/lo/1403/SUPP/NVDetXP3DStereoUG_20.pdf > > Technical brief: > > http://www.nvidia.com/docs/lo/1404/SUPP/TB-00271-3D_Stereo.pdf > > I have a small addition: > I forgot to mention ghost images that you sometimes see. This is because the > left image shows faintly in the right image and vice versa. It is most > obvious with bright objects. The most noticeable were the driver arms and > legs and the steering wheel in GPL. After a while you get to ignore the > ghost images. A bit like you ignore the boundaries of the glasses or > floaters in your eyes. > > Also I used the glasses in the Michael Schumacher Kart demo. This game works > well in 3D stereo. The surrounding, a multi layer track in a hall is more a > 3D thing than an outdoor track. It is most impressive from the chase view, > from the "cockpit" view (you see no cockpit) the perspective on the track is > again not great. So it looks nice, but you can race just as fast without 3D > stereo. I even find I can be more precise in normal mode, but that may be a > matter of what one is most accustomed to. > > Bart Westra

Bart, What video card and driver version are you using? I bought a pair after reading Paul's review and have had nothing but great experiences with them. F12001, GPL and Nascar 2002 I won't drive without them anymore. There were some great posts in the racesimcentral forums which helped a couple people who had some trouble adjusting the mirrors but they seemed to get all their issues worked out. I'd try a different set of drivers, maybe the 29.40 drivers which I think helped them out.

"James Montgomery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Bart Westra" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<ad32pr$cu4$[email hidden]>...

Quoted text (18 lines)

> > "Bart Westra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:ad21cl$8e7$[email hidden]... > > > I looked briefly at Super1 Karting, F1 2002 demo, Viper, Nascar 4, > > Mercedes > > > Benz Truck Racing. After adjusting the convergence for games not in > > NVidia's > > > database, they looked ok. Only MBTR has the same double images in the > > mirror > > > as I had in GPL. I don't know if it can be corrected in MBTR. > > > > > > NVidia's documentation: > > > User's guide: > > > http://www.nvidia.com/docs/lo/1403/SUPP/NVDetXP3DStereoUG_20.pdf > > > Technical brief: > > > http://www.nvidia.com/docs/lo/1404/SUPP/TB-00271-3D_Stereo.pdf > > > > I have a small addition: > > I forgot to mention ghost images that you sometimes see. This is because

the > > left image shows faintly in the right image and vice versa. It is most > > obvious with bright objects. The most noticeable were the driver armsand > > legs and the steering wheel in GPL. After a while you get to ignore the > > ghost images. A bit like you ignore the boundaries of the glasses or > > floaters in your eyes. > > > > Also I used the glasses in the Michael Schumacher Kart demo. This gameworks > > well in 3D stereo. The surrounding, a multi layer track in a hall ismore a > > 3D thing than an outdoor track. It is most impressive from the chaseview, > > from the "cockpit" view (you see no cockpit) the perspective on thetrack is > > again not great. So it looks nice, but you can race just as fast without3D > > stereo. I even find I can be more precise in normal mode, but that maybe a

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > matter of what one is most accustomed to. > > > > Bart Westra > > Bart, > What video card and driver version are you using? I bought a pair > after reading Paul's review and have had nothing but great experiences > with them. F12001, GPL and Nascar 2002 I won't drive without them > anymore. There were some great posts in the racesimcentral forums > which helped a couple people who had some trouble adjusting the > mirrors but they seemed to get all their issues worked out. I'd try a > different set of drivers, maybe the 29.40 drivers which I think helped > them out.

Here are my specs: cpu: Athlon 800 mem: 256MB gfx: Geforce 3 Ti 200 (Leadtek) os: Win98 first edition gfx driver: 28.32+3d stereo driver I run GPL 1201 with D3D patch. Almost no graphics additions, only Ollies cockpits. I will try the 29.41 driver for win98 and report back. Bart

"Bart Westra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ad8og5$ld7$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (20 lines)

> > Bart, > > What video card and driver version are you using? I bought a pair > > after reading Paul's review and have had nothing but great experiences > > with them. F12001, GPL and Nascar 2002 I won't drive without them > > anymore. There were some great posts in the racesimcentral forums > > which helped a couple people who had some trouble adjusting the > > mirrors but they seemed to get all their issues worked out. I'd try a > > different set of drivers, maybe the 29.40 drivers which I think helped > > them out. > > Here are my specs: > cpu: Athlon 800 > mem: 256MB > gfx: Geforce 3 Ti 200 (Leadtek) > os: Win98 first edition > gfx driver: 28.32+3d stereo driver > > I run GPL 1201 with D3D patch. Almost no graphics additions, only Ollies > cockpits. > I will try the 29.41 driver for win98 and report back.

I have tried the 29.41 drivers now, and they make no difference. I tried to make a stereo screenshot to show the partial mirror, but for some reason it doesn't work. In the Nascar 2002 demo I got a comparable effect, though much less noticable. I see a small black area on the left hand side of the mirror. It gets bigger as I increase the stereo seperation. I searched forum.racesimcentral.com for "3D glasses". The information in the threads I found matches with the review I gave. One has to compromise on certain things to get the 3D working: - refresh rate is more or less halved (alternating frames for each eye), which can force you into a lower resolution when you compensate by increasing the normal refresh rate - brightness and contrast are less - cpu load increases, therefor less fps I was already aware of the hot keys for adjusting the image, but they don't help in getting back the full mirror image. Don't get me wrong, the glasses deliver what is promised and compared to earlier efforts I guess they are a big step in the right direction. Also I think the impact of the 3D effect depends on the game. For race sims driven from the cockpit I find it is limited. From chase view, or TV view in replays, the perspective is much better. I found the increase in resolution from 800x600 to 1280x1024 when I got my current system of more value for racing than the 3D effect. 1280x1024 allows me to see more detail in the small part of the screen that is important in racing: the next turn. Also it allows me to see other cars sooner as I approach them. Then for GPL, I would like to hear from one of the "Excellent, brilliant, superb" reviewers how he got the mirrors working ok. Possibly the fov was set so small so that the mirrors are only partially visible, so the faulty part is obscured. Increasing stereo seperation to max should still reveal it in that case. Also I wonder why they don't mention the ghost images from white or shiny objects like driver arms and legs, edges of gauges and the white lines at the side of the track. Bart Westra

I have asked this question before, but no one had the answer. Has anyone compared the 3d effect from the stereo glasses with using a fresnel lens?

Bruce Millar wrote: > > I have asked this question before, but no one had the answer. Has > anyone compared the 3d effect from the stereo glasses with using a > fresnel lens? And I'd like to know if they work with a fresnel lens? Gerry

Try adjusting the gamma settings...