When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

I really hope that oneday somebody will release a very accurate bike sim.... one is needed!!! :) -- Luke -=87=-

"Luke Phillips" <(NOSPM)[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ycLJ8.203019$[email hidden]... > I really hope that oneday somebody will release a very accurate bikesim.... > one is needed!!! :) > > -- > Luke > -=87=- > Well since EA has discontinued the World Superbike line, and the GP 500 title doesn't strike me as a huge sales hit, I hope you are not holding your breath. dave henrie (I'd love a good first person Motocross title with realistic jumping, not the moonshots like in Motocross Madness 2.) dave henrie

I've been told that WSC II will include planes and bikes (shipping date not available yet). AL "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de news: zwLJ8.161797$[email hidden]...

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> > "Luke Phillips" <(NOSPM)[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ycLJ8.203019$[email hidden]... > > I really hope that oneday somebody will release a very accurate bike > sim.... > > one is needed!!! :) > > > > -- > > Luke > > -=87=- > > > Well since EA has discontinued the World Superbike line, and the GP 500 > title doesn't strike me as a huge sales hit, I hope you are not holding

your

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> breath. > dave henrie > (I'd love a good first person Motocross title with realistic jumping, not > the moonshots like in Motocross Madness 2.) > dave henrie > >

"Luke Phillips" <(NOSPM)[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ycLJ8.203019$[email hidden]... > I really hope that oneday somebody will release a very accurate bikesim.... > one is needed!!! :) > GP500's a few years old - but there's mods to bring it up to 2002 spec. Excellent title - pity the multiplayer's a bit shoddy Doug

rotflol "lg042-5" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ad81d9$vqc$[email hidden]... > I've been told that WSC II will include planes and bikes (shipping datenot

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> available yet). > AL > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de news: > zwLJ8.161797$[email hidden]... > > > > "Luke Phillips" <(NOSPM)[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:ycLJ8.203019$[email hidden]... > > > I really hope that oneday somebody will release a very accurate bike > > sim.... > > > one is needed!!! :) > > > > > > -- > > > Luke > > > -=87=- > > > > > Well since EA has discontinued the World Superbike line, and the GP

500 > > title doesn't strike me as a huge sales hit, I hope you are not holding > your > > breath. > > dave henrie > > (I'd love a good first person Motocross title with realistic jumping,not > > the moonshots like in Motocross Madness 2.) > > dave henrie > > > > > >

GP500 is hardly realistic, as i said in another thread, if you would compare it to a car sim it would be relative to say NFS Porsche Unleashed.... the thing that makes it hard about a bike sim is that the movement of the rider makes has a big effect on the handling of the bike.... but maybee they could set a few different riding styles that you choose from or something like that.. Luke -=87=- "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ad831s$v22q3$[email hidden]...

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> > "Luke Phillips" <(NOSPM)[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ycLJ8.203019$[email hidden]... > > I really hope that oneday somebody will release a very accurate bike > sim.... > > one is needed!!! :) > > > > GP500's a few years old - but there's mods to bring it up to 2002 spec. > Excellent title - pity the multiplayer's a bit shoddy > > Doug > >

> I've been told that WSC II will include planes and bikes (shipping datenot > available yet). Wow. Ice cold, man. Ice cold. Wish i thought it up first :)

"lg042-5" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ad81d9$vqc$[email hidden]... > I've been told that WSC II will include planes and bikes (shipping datenot > available yet). > AL > >(snip) I want the BROWN truck!! (with flames, of course (DW made me say it!)) -- callsignviper The truth is out there.....You just have to look in the right places.....and ask the right questions.

hello, if we compare GP500 and SBK to how handle a real motorbike, they are pure arcade. I don't knowif you know how to drive a motorbike, but you should know that to go left on a bike you have to first steer toright, to make the car lean to left, then let the bike turn by itself ;o) They are othe important thing that are never been simulated like, the gyroscopic effect. Other thing, when cornering on a bike , if you brake too much withthe front brake ( withoutlocking ) the bike un-lean ,or lift up if you know what i mean ... but if you brake with the rear brake, then bike lean more, and could even slide from the rear ( Mc coy style ;o) ). They many other things that are not simulated in GP500 and SBK. When i play GP500 and SBK, i feel like drving a car not a motor bike. btw, i have a Suzuki SV 650 S , i'll buy a Ducati 996 some days ;o)

"S�bastien Tixier" wrote...

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> hello, > > if we compare GP500 and SBK to how handle a > real motorbike, they are pure arcade. > > I don't knowif you know how to drive a motorbike, > but you should know that to go left on a bike you > have to first steer toright, to make the car lean > to left, then let the bike turn by itself ;o)

Weird bikes you got there in France.... ;-) Jan. =---

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "S�bastien Tixier" wrote... > > hello, > > > > if we compare GP500 and SBK to how handle a > > real motorbike, they are pure arcade. > > > > I don't knowif you know how to drive a motorbike, > > but you should know that to go left on a bike you > > have to first steer toright, to make the car lean > > to left, then let the bike turn by itself ;o) > > Weird bikes you got there in France.... ;-) > > Jan.

Actually he's partially correct. You don't have to start a turn by counter-steering,(actually a tug on the opposite side of the handlebars in relation to which direction you wish to turn) but if you do, it initiates the weight transfer that tiny bit quicker and thus speeds your turn. A handy gimic that most road racers have learned. Convincing a street rider that it works is sometimes difficult. dave henrie

"Dave Henrie" wrote...

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> > <snip> > Actually he's partially correct. You don't have > to start a turn by counter-steering,(actually a tug > on the opposite side of the handlebars in relation > to which direction you wish to turn) but if you do, > it initiates the weight transfer that tiny bit quicker > and thus speeds your turn. A handy gimic that most > road racers have learned. Convincing a street rider > that it works is sometimes difficult.

I know about and understand countersteering Dave... don't think I've ever done it myself, though. As I learned how to ride a motorcycle in motorcross, I assume I ride from the hip (don't have a road bike anymore and never payed attention to how I rode back when I did). All of this, however, is beside the point. Read what Sebastien said again, I'm sure the penny will drop... ;-) Jan. =---

"Jan Verschueren" > All of this, however, is beside the point. Read what Sebastien said again, > I'm sure the penny will drop... ;-) > > Jan. > =--- you mean the part where he says he's gonna get a Ducati 996? Yeah that threw me too...why ANYONE would want the 996 when the 999 is due out this next model year is beyond me.......... :) dave henrie

He's totally correct actually.. well basically. When you counter steer the bike, its something you hardly notice. A time where you will notice if there is a change of direction and you front wheel lifts off the ground, it will steer the oppisite way... eg if you are in a left hand turn and are accelerating while changing direction into a right hand turn your wheel will land turning to the left.. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:C34K8.141146$L76.223995@rwcrnsc53...

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> > "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "S�bastien Tixier" wrote... > > > hello, > > > > > > if we compare GP500 and SBK to how handle a > > > real motorbike, they are pure arcade. > > > > > > I don't knowif you know how to drive a motorbike, > > > but you should know that to go left on a bike you > > > have to first steer toright, to make the car lean > > > to left, then let the bike turn by itself ;o) > > > > Weird bikes you got there in France.... ;-) > > > > Jan. > > Actually he's partially correct. You don't have to start a turn by > counter-steering,(actually a tug on the opposite side of the handlebars in > relation to which direction you wish to turn) but if you do, it initiates > the weight transfer that tiny bit quicker and thus speeds your turn. A > handy gimic that most road racers have learned. Convincing a street rider > that it works is sometimes difficult. > dave henrie > >

On Sat, 01 Jun 2002 13:34:26 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> Weird bikes you got there in France.... ;-) >> >> Jan. > > Actually he's partially correct. You don't have to start a turn by Why partially ? I'm totaly correct, i'm driving motrcycle for some years, i tried some racing bike on racing tracks. You can't take a turn WITOUT counter-steer, except when you are almost stoped. And that's true for all the 2 wheels vehicule, even bikes and vespa. But the less the bike weigh the shorter the counter steer is needed. I even counter steer with my mounain bike ;o) >

in france, those bastards drive backwards with the driver facing the front no insult intended to french men just french drivers :-))) "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "S�bastien Tixier" wrote... > > hello, > > > > if we compare GP500 and SBK to how handle a > > real motorbike, they are pure arcade. > > > > I don't knowif you know how to drive a motorbike, > > but you should know that to go left on a bike you > > have to first steer toright, to make the car lean > > to left, then let the bike turn by itself ;o) > > Weird bikes you got there in France.... ;-) > > Jan. > =--- > >

"Dave Henrie" wrote... > <snip> > you mean the part where he says he's gonna get a > Ducati 996? Yeah that threw me too...why ANYONE would want > the 996 when the 999 is due out this next model year is > beyond me.......... :) Although indeed quite vexing, it was not what I was getting at. See reply to Sebastien. Jan. =---

"S�bastien Tixier" wrote...

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> > Why partially ? I'm totaly correct, i'm driving motrcycle > for some years, i tried some racing bike on racing tracks. > > You can't take a turn WITOUT counter-steer, except when > you are almost stoped. > > And that's true for all the 2 wheels vehicule, even bikes > and vespa. But the less the bike weigh the shorter the > counter steer is needed. > > I even counter steer with my mounain bike ;o)

Once again: my comment was not about counter steering. Seeing as I'm forced to explain this is no longer going to be funny, but read what you originally posted... > I don't knowif you know how to drive a motorbike, but you > should know that to go left on a bike you have to first > steer to right, to make the car lean to left, then let the > bike turn by itself ;o) So, presumably, you to go left on your bike, you first steer to the right, which makes "the car" (presumably your car, back home in the garage) lean to the left, which in turn allows the bike to go through the turn by itself. Rather strange if you ask me... ;-) Jan. =---

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "S�bastien Tixier" wrote... > > > > Why partially ? I'm totaly correct, i'm driving motrcycle > > for some years, i tried some racing bike on racing tracks. > > > > You can't take a turn WITOUT counter-steer, except when > > you are almost stoped. > > > > And that's true for all the 2 wheels vehicule, even bikes > > and vespa. But the less the bike weigh the shorter the > > counter steer is needed. > > > > I even counter steer with my mounain bike ;o) > > > Once again: my comment was not about counter steering. Seeing as I'm

forced > to explain this is no longer going to be funny, but read what youoriginally

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> posted... > > > I don't knowif you know how to drive a motorbike, but you > > should know that to go left on a bike you have to first > > steer to right, to make the car lean to left, then let the > > bike turn by itself ;o) > > So, presumably, you to go left on your bike, you first steer to the right, > which makes "the car" (presumably your car, back home in the garage) lean

to > the left, which in turn allows the bike to go through the turn by itself. > > Rather strange if you ask me... ;-) > > Jan. > =--- going back to the bike sim that drives like a car statement, are we following you now Jan? My first comment was probably focus'd on the finality(sp?) of his counter-steering statement...you can't turn WITHOUT CS. I think that since many riders don't even know what CS is, they can't use it everytime. Your body, however, may know more about the laws of physics than your mind. While I had to learn to countersteer, I never had to learn to lean into a turn. I suspect that even if we are not physically yanking on the opposite bar, we are inducing some countersteer by beginning to lean or shift our weight as we start a turn. Perhaps that's Seb's point. Dave Henrie

"Dave Henrie" wrote... > <snip> My first comment was probably focus'd on the > finality(sp?) of his counter-steering statement... <yet another counting steering explanation which I understand and agree with snipped> I give up.... you guys aren't even hearing the sonic boom of my point passing over your heads. Jan. ;-) =---

S�bastien Tixier <[email hidden]> writes: > I don't knowif you know how to drive a motorbike, but you should know > that to go left on a bike you have to first steer toright, to make the > car lean to left, then let the bike turn by itself ;o) I'd like to see this, but I'm pretty sure a counter-steering bike sim, wouldn't go down too well with most people. :) > When i play GP500 and SBK, i feel like drving a car not a motor > bike. I think GP500 is pretty good, actually. it's far from being GPL, sure, but in general, when you "do stuff", you get the right sort of results. > btw, i have a Suzuki SV 650 S , i'll buy a Ducati 996 some days ;o) no bike these days. too bleeding expensive. used to race 600s, though I'll admit I wasnt particularly good at it. :) -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy"

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes: > Actually he's partially correct. You don't have to start a turn by > counter-steering,(actually a tug on the opposite side of the handlebars in > relation to which direction you wish to turn) but if you do, it initiates > the weight transfer that tiny bit quicker and thus speeds your turn. A > handy gimic that most road racers have learned. Convincing a street rider > that it works is sometimes difficult. it's close to impossible. I do insist that everybody does it this way though, conscios or not. steering with body weight is just too slow. :) -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 to err is human -- to forgive is bovine.

Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> > "Dave Henrie" wrote... > > <snip> My first comment was probably focus'd on the > > finality(sp?) of his counter-steering statement... > > <yet another counting steering explanation which I understand and agree with > snipped> > > I give up.... you guys aren't even hearing the sonic boom of my point > passing over your heads. > > Jan. ;-) > =---

I guess their bikes have 4 wheels Jan....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

S�bastien Tixier <[email hidden]> writes:

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> On Sat, 01 Jun 2002 13:34:26 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >> > >> Weird bikes you got there in France.... ;-) > > > > Actually he's partially correct. You don't have to start a turn by > > Why partially ? I'm totaly correct, i'm driving motrcycle for some > years, i tried some racing bike on racing tracks. > > You can't take a turn WITOUT counter-steer, except when you are almost > stoped.

You're partially correct. Forget the gyroscopic effect, it's a red herring and is not the reason you countersteer, balance is the key. Which also explains why the bike will un-lean when you use the brake. If your lean increases with the use of the rear brake, I can only assume that the rear wheel is sliding or drifting. > And that's true for all the 2 wheels vehicule, even bikes and vespa. > But the less the bike weigh the shorter the counter steer is needed. > > I even counter steer with my mounain bike ;o) Of course. -- -asbjxrn

Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> writes: > no bike these days. too bleeding expensive. used to race 600s, > though I'll admit I wasnt particularly good at it. :) Everyone should be able to do 1:02 at Rudskogen with a little bit of practice, no? -- -asbjxrn

On 02 Jun 2002 22:41:27 +0200, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes: > >> Actually he's partially correct. You don't have to start a turn by >> counter-steering,(actually a tug on the opposite side of the handlebars in >> relation to which direction you wish to turn) but if you do, it initiates >> the weight transfer that tiny bit quicker and thus speeds your turn. A >> handy gimic that most road racers have learned. Convincing a street rider >> that it works is sometimes difficult. > >it's close to impossible. I do insist that everybody does it this way >though, conscios or not. steering with body weight is just too slow. :)

correct ! ;o) A friend of mine has a SBK racing training at laguna seca at the SBK schools, and they had a motorbike with 2 steering, one was working and the other was jsut a fixed pol on the fuel tank. They had to make the motorbike turn using the fixed pol , and by leaning their body. Weel, the motorbike didn't turn at all ;o) The gyroscopic effect was too strong.

"Sebastien Tixier" <stixier@wanadoo[NO_SPAM].fr> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On 02 Jun 2002 22:41:27 +0200, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > >> Actually he's partially correct. You don't have to start a turn by > >> counter-steering,(actually a tug on the opposite side of the handlebars

in > >> relation to which direction you wish to turn) but if you do, itinitiates > >> the weight transfer that tiny bit quicker and thus speeds your turn. A > >> handy gimic that most road racers have learned. Convincing a streetrider

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> >> that it works is sometimes difficult. > > > >it's close to impossible. I do insist that everybody does it this way > >though, conscios or not. steering with body weight is just too slow. :) > > correct ! ;o) > > A friend of mine has a SBK racing training at laguna seca at the SBK > schools, and they had a motorbike with 2 steering, one was working > and the other was jsut a fixed pol on the fuel tank. They had to make > the motorbike turn using the fixed pol , and by leaning their body. > Weel, the motorbike didn't turn at all ;o) The gyroscopic effect was > too strong. >

Lucky Sot..... dh

[email hidden] (Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad) writes: > You're partially correct. > Forget the gyroscopic effect, it's a red herring and is not the reason > you countersteer, balance is the key. Which also explains why the bike > will un-lean when you use the brake. If your lean increases with the use > of the rear brake, I can only assume that the rear wheel is sliding or > drifting. handling on the brakes depends on a lot of things, I think. at least for the front brake. I never touch the rear brake myself, but applying the front brake in a turn will make the bike stand up with some tires (metzelers, for instance), where other tires will make it lean more (Dunlop's 207GP is an example of this). probably depends on the steering geometry too. the above was true for the CBR600 at least. can't say I understand why, though. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 FJ�SE!

Sebastien Tixier <stixier@wanadoo[NO_SPAM].fr> writes: > A friend of mine has a SBK racing training at laguna seca at the SBK > schools, and they had a motorbike with 2 steering, one was working > and the other was jsut a fixed pol on the fuel tank. They had to make > the motorbike turn using the fixed pol , and by leaning their body. > Weel, the motorbike didn't turn at all ;o) The gyroscopic effect was > too strong. if I understand you correct, that has nothing to do with gyroscopic effects. are you saying the forks didn't turn? in that case, the bike can't turn, because the front wheel can't turn. it's perfectly possible to steer without counter-steering. try steering the bike without holding the handlebars. you'll see. :) -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gnus don't kill people. gnus-summary-lower-score kills people.

Did any of you guys see my post with this in it? http://europe.thrustmaster.com/products/d_prd.php?p=T89&fam=4 David G Fisher "Luke Phillips" <(NOSPM)[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ycLJ8.203019$[email hidden]... > I really hope that oneday somebody will release a very accurate bikesim....

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> one is needed!!! :) > > > > -- > Luke > -=87=- > > >

Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> writes: > it's perfectly possible to steer without counter-steering. try > steering the bike without holding the handlebars. you'll see. :) You can countersteer without holding the handlebars, just use your ass instead. -- -asbjxrn

David G Fisher wrote: > > Did any of you guys see my post with this in it? > http://europe.thrustmaster.com/products/d_prd.php?p=T89&fam=4 I have it in the shop, had a brief look at it without actually connecting to a PC and firing up a game or anything, and it looks like it *could* be a decent product Of course, like most Thrustmaster products, it's got a very "plastic feel" to it Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

[email hidden] (Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad) writes:

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> Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> writes: > > > it's perfectly possible to steer without counter-steering. try > > steering the bike without holding the handlebars. you'll see. :) > > You can countersteer without holding the handlebars, just use your ass > instead.

use my ass on the handlebars? :D -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy"

On 03 Jun 2002 09:32:27 +0200, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Sebastien Tixier <stixier@wanadoo[NO_SPAM].fr> writes: > >> A friend of mine has a SBK racing training at laguna seca at the SBK >> schools, and they had a motorbike with 2 steering, one was working >> and the other was jsut a fixed pol on the fuel tank. They had to make >> the motorbike turn using the fixed pol , and by leaning their body. >> Weel, the motorbike didn't turn at all ;o) The gyroscopic effect was >> too strong. > >if I understand you correct, that has nothing to do with gyroscopic >effects. are you saying the forks didn't turn? in that case, the bike >can't turn, because the front wheel can't turn.

Yes the forks didn't turns. And the gyroscopic effect has something to do . Why do you think the bike don't fall when the wheel are turning : gyroscopic effect. Gyroscopic effect : force that counter act other force that tend to change the orientation of the rotation axis. It's depedent of mass and angular velocity. >it's perfectly possible to steer without counter-steering. try >steering the bike without holding the handlebars. you'll see. :) At low speed certainly, but certainly not at high speed, if drivers lean on the bike, its to lower the gravity center so the bike can take the turn faster without need to lean the bike more, that's not to help the bike to lean .

Sebastien Tixier <stixier@wanadoo[NO_SPAM].fr> writes:

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> On 03 Jun 2002 09:32:27 +0200, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Sebastien Tixier <stixier@wanadoo[NO_SPAM].fr> writes: > > > >> A friend of mine has a SBK racing training at laguna seca at the SBK > >> schools, and they had a motorbike with 2 steering, one was working > >> and the other was jsut a fixed pol on the fuel tank. They had to make > >> the motorbike turn using the fixed pol , and by leaning their body. > >> Weel, the motorbike didn't turn at all ;o) The gyroscopic effect was > >> too strong. > > > >if I understand you correct, that has nothing to do with gyroscopic > >effects. are you saying the forks didn't turn? in that case, the bike > >can't turn, because the front wheel can't turn. > > Yes the forks didn't turns. And the gyroscopic effect has something to > do . Why do you think the bike don't fall when the wheel are turning : > gyroscopic effect.

Ever tried to ride a bicycle through a puddle and watch the resulting tracks? You will see that the front wheel keeps steering back and forth to keep the wheels below the center of gravity, much the same way you balance a broom in your hand. That is why the bike don't fall. Gyroscopic effects are small, if you don't believe me, read this QA by a bikeriding physics professor: http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~fajans/Teaching/MoreBikeFiles/BikeQuestions.htm And if your physics is up to scratch, read his paper: http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~fajans/pub/pdffiles/SteerBikeAJP.PDF A guy called David Jones also made bicycles with extra wheels rotating in the opposite direction to cancel out the gyroscopic effects. It turned out the handling characteristics were only sligtly different from a normal bike, and could be ridden no-hands. -- -asbjxrn

Sebastien Tixier <stixier@wanadoo[NO_SPAM].fr> writes:

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> On 03 Jun 2002 09:32:27 +0200, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Sebastien Tixier <stixier@wanadoo[NO_SPAM].fr> writes: > > > >> A friend of mine has a SBK racing training at laguna seca at the SBK > >> schools, and they had a motorbike with 2 steering, one was working > >> and the other was jsut a fixed pol on the fuel tank. They had to make > >> the motorbike turn using the fixed pol , and by leaning their body. > >> Weel, the motorbike didn't turn at all ;o) The gyroscopic effect was > >> too strong. > > > >if I understand you correct, that has nothing to do with gyroscopic > >effects. are you saying the forks didn't turn? in that case, the bike > >can't turn, because the front wheel can't turn. > > Yes the forks didn't turns. And the gyroscopic effect has something to > do . Why do you think the bike don't fall when the wheel are turning : > gyroscopic effect.

what are you talking about? the bike _does_ fall. > At low speed certainly, but certainly not at high speed, if drivers > lean on the bike, its to lower the gravity center so the bike can take > the turn faster without need to lean the bike more, that's not to help > the bike to lean . well I don't know what to say. try it. it works. it doesn't work well, of course, but it does work. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "a poster is a human being or the software equivalent"

>> >> Yes the forks didn't turns. And the gyroscopic effect has something to >> do . Why do you think the bike don't fall when the wheel are turning : >> gyroscopic effect. >what are you talking about? the bike _does_ fall. by turning, i meant rolling, not turning, sorry.

>Ever tried to ride a bicycle through a puddle and watch the resulting >tracks? Well, no, i'm only riding sportbikes, not a runabout ;o) > You will see that the front wheel keeps steering back and >forth to keep the wheels below the center of gravity, much the same >way you balance a broom in your hand. That is why the bike don't fall. >Gyroscopic effects are small, if you don't believe me, read this QA by >a bikeriding physics professor: >http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~fajans/Teaching/MoreBikeFiles/BikeQuestions.htm Very interesting indeed ! I learn something today , cool ;o) >And if your physics is up to scratch, read his paper: >http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~fajans/pub/pdffiles/SteerBikeAJP.PDF Thank for the link.