What do other leagues do?

I have a question for Nascar (any Papyrus Version) league racers that use the Fixed Setup format. For the other leagues when you run Fixed Setup races do you have someone basically tailor a setup for the league OR do you use one of the standard setups that come with the game? The reason I ask is I am in a league using Fixed Setup races but they have one of the better drivers setting up the Setups. He happens to like a looser Setup than I do. Plus he drives a Chevy I drive a Pontiac and I find some of the setups just totally un-managable. I think that a Fixed Setup League should only us setups that come from the game and not made by someone. But I was wondering what other leagues do and what your thoughts were. Thanks, Bif1988

"bif1988" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I have a question for Nascar (any Papyrus Version) league racers that > use the Fixed Setup format. For the other leagues when you run Fixed > Setup races do you have someone basically tailor a setup for the league > OR do you use one of the standard setups that come with the game? > > The reason I ask is I am in a league using Fixed Setup races but they > have one of the better drivers setting up the Setups. He happens to > like a looser Setup than I do. Plus he drives a Chevy I drive a Pontiac > and I find some of the setups just totally un-managable. I think that a > Fixed Setup League should only us setups that come from the game and not > made by someone. But I was wondering what other leagues do and what > your thoughts were. > > Thanks, > Bif1988 >

We use the default fast setups, fwiw. John

Most use the FAST setup that came in N4 or NR2002. Now in N3 there was one setup called FIXED that was used in fixed setup races. I think the differences in makes no longer exist after N3 so that's not really an issue. Any setup is gonna run different with different drivers AND different hardware, even the default Papy setups. For example I switched from a LWFF wheel too a MOMO. Setups that were way loose with the LWFF are extremely tight with the MOMO. I think this has to do with the range of motion differences between controllers. You still can tune a fixed setup some using the controller's liner setting. If a setup is loose lower the liner setting and if its tight increase it. Now all I need is for the liner setting to goto about 120% :) I wish that the steering lock was still adjustable in fixed setup races to help people to make up for these type of differences. MadDAWG

"bif1988" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I have a question for Nascar (any Papyrus Version) league racers that > use the Fixed Setup format. For the other leagues when you run Fixed > Setup races do you have someone basically tailor a setup for the league > OR do you use one of the standard setups that come with the game? > > The reason I ask is I am in a league using Fixed Setup races but they > have one of the better drivers setting up the Setups. He happens to > like a looser Setup than I do. Plus he drives a Chevy I drive a Pontiac > and I find some of the setups just totally un-managable. I think that a > Fixed Setup League should only us setups that come from the game and not > made by someone. But I was wondering what other leagues do and what > your thoughts were. > > Thanks, > Bif1988 >

We use the default <fast> setups in ours. While it is possible that someone has made a setup looser than you care for, looser will be faster and likely better on tire wear (ala Bob Stanley setups at TLS) BUT the game implements the car makes as a standard template with decals being only major difference. You driving a Pontiac should have absolutely no affect on a setup that was originally setup on any of the other 'makes'.

"MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > I wish that the steering lock was still adjustable in fixed setup races to > help people to make up for these type of differences. > > MadDAWG > Er, it is. John

We use the default Fast. www.corl.ca - Canadian Online Racing League "bif1988" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I have a question for Nascar (any Papyrus Version) league racers that > use the Fixed Setup format. For the other leagues when you run Fixed > Setup races do you have someone basically tailor a setup for the league > OR do you use one of the standard setups that come with the game? > > The reason I ask is I am in a league using Fixed Setup races but they > have one of the better drivers setting up the Setups. He happens to > like a looser Setup than I do. Plus he drives a Chevy I drive a Pontiac > and I find some of the setups just totally un-managable. I think that a > Fixed Setup League should only us setups that come from the game and not > made by someone. But I was wondering what other leagues do and what > your thoughts were. > > Thanks, > Bif1988 >

"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > I wish that the steering lock was still adjustable in fixed setup racesto

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> > help people to make up for these type of differences. > > > > MadDAWG > > > > Er, it is. > > John >

I thought so when I read this too JP, I just ain't near my racing machine and could not verify it. I think, even though it is in the garage, that steering lock should be considered part of the controller setup. The steering lock setting can be affected by the quality and size (of the wheel itself) of your steering controller IMO.

Most of the issues were addressed by other posters, but.... If someone is making a custom fixed setup that everyone uses, it needs to be made available to all league members days if not weeks b4 the race at that circuit so everyone has a chance to practice with it. I feel thats one of the reasons most leagues just use one of the default setups(usually fast), no they are not as good on tire wear or most tend to be a little tight, but in your situation, it seems the guy creating the setups would have an advantage over most if not almost all of the drivers. IMO, NOT the way to run a fixed setup league..... -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash bif1988 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I have a question for Nascar (any Papyrus Version) league racers that > use the Fixed Setup format. For the other leagues when you run Fixed > Setup races do you have someone basically tailor a setup for the league > OR do you use one of the standard setups that come with the game? > > The reason I ask is I am in a league using Fixed Setup races but they > have one of the better drivers setting up the Setups. He happens to > like a looser Setup than I do. Plus he drives a Chevy I drive a Pontiac > and I find some of the setups just totally un-managable. I think that a > Fixed Setup League should only us setups that come from the game and not > made by someone. But I was wondering what other leagues do and what > your thoughts were. > > Thanks, > Bif1988 >

"SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tNLN8.56951$[email hidden]...

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> > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > I wish that the steering lock was still adjustable in fixed setup

races

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> to > > > help people to make up for these type of differences. > > > > > > MadDAWG > > > > > > > Er, it is. > > > > John > > > > I thought so when I read this too JP, I just ain't near my racing machine > and could not verify it. I think, even though it is in the garage, that > steering lock should be considered part of the controller setup. The > steering lock setting can be affected by the quality and size (of the

wheel > itself) of your steering controller IMO. > Agreed, if for no other reason, it'd be nice to keep related items in the same location interface-wise. John

Well and that is kind of my point. The guy is tearing up the league. Now mind you he did so in N3 also but as the league went to N4 he wins everything where as in N3 we did not run fixed setups and others seemed to be winning. And I believe that not using the Standard setups for the game makes for an advantage. Also the fact that he will set the car up for his driving style which will not necessarily benefit any other driver. Where using the Standard setups it will be a hit or miss thing as to who will like the setup better. It was mostly frustrating last night because I got to the track for Practice and I had no problems with the setup. But once the race started I could not keep the car under me. If I let off the car would spin. If I would not let off as much to prevent the spin the car would push into the wall. Now I am not a great driver and I know it. But I also know that I can usually handle the Standard setups pretty well. Better stop my vent. But thanks all. You pretty much told me what I thought should happen. Thanks and Later, Bif1988 Biz wrote:

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> Most of the issues were addressed by other posters, but.... > > If someone is making a custom fixed setup that everyone uses, it needs to be made available to all > league members days if not weeks b4 the race at that circuit so everyone has a chance to practice > with it. I feel thats one of the reasons most leagues just use one of the default setups(usually > fast), no they are not as good on tire wear or most tend to be a little tight, but in your > situation, it seems the guy creating the setups would have an advantage over most if not almost all > of the drivers. IMO, NOT the way to run a fixed setup league..... > -- > Biz > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and > the....." - Ash > >

Hey bif1988, what track are we talking about? It almost sounds like Michigan...that can cause some problems especially into T3. Lifting going into 3 can bring the rear end around on a lot of the better setups for that place. The secret there is to simply drive the car into the corner further...sounds crazy I know, same way with good setups at Vegas. Loose loose on entry until you get the hang of driving down into the corner and coasting until all 4 tires hook back up. To support you though, we had considered 'tuned' fixed setups for our league until they decided to release 2002 on us as we were readying for another N4 season. Our deal was the whole lot of fixed setups (for all 12 venues) were going to be released to the league BEFORE the season even started. I felt this was only fair to the racers. Since we went to 2002 and started our season within a few weeks of its release, we decided to just run the stock <fast> setups. This has presented little problem EXCEPT for Coca Cola. The stock <fast> there will blow up in the draft, even at 70� and clear...We found this out the very night of the race, in practice, and all 17 of us agreed I could back out, change the <fast> to have 5% less tape and restart. No more blowups were experienced and everyone had an input on how to fix the problem. Anyway, long story short, they should use included setups or publish the setups they intend to use for each track at the beginning of the season. At least they should send out the setup a week or more ahead of each venue. I would check the setup as it shows up in the garage (you can't change it but it does show the correct data in grey) to make sure someone isn't sneaking in different setups before each race. I would hope not... "bif1988" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well and that is kind of my point. The guy is tearing up the league. Nowmind you he did so in N3 > also but as the league went to N4 he wins everything where as in N3 we didnot run fixed setups and > others seemed to be winning. And I believe that not using the Standardsetups for the game makes for > an advantage. Also the fact that he will set the car up for his drivingstyle which will not > necessarily benefit any other driver. Where using the Standard setups itwill be a hit or miss thing > as to who will like the setup better. > > It was mostly frustrating last night because I got to the track forPractice and I had no problems with > the setup. But once the race started I could not keep the car under me.If I let off the car would > spin. If I would not let off as much to prevent the spin the car wouldpush into the wall. Now I am > not a great driver and I know it. But I also know that I can usuallyhandle the Standard setups pretty

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> well. Better stop my vent. > > But thanks all. You pretty much told me what I thought should happen. > > Thanks and Later, > Bif1988 > > Biz wrote: > > > Most of the issues were addressed by other posters, but.... > > > > If someone is making a custom fixed setup that everyone uses, it needs

to be made available to all > > league members days if not weeks b4 the race at that circuit so everyonehas a chance to practice > > with it. I feel thats one of the reasons most leagues just use one ofthe default setups(usually > > fast), no they are not as good on tire wear or most tend to be a littletight, but in your > > situation, it seems the guy creating the setups would have an advantageover most if not almost all > > of the drivers. IMO, NOT the way to run a fixed setup league..... > > -- > > Biz > > > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand > > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecularstructures,....and > > the....." - Ash > > > > >

>"bif1988" <[email hidden]> wrote > I have a question for Nascar (any Papyrus Version) league racers that > use the Fixed Setup format. For the other leagues when you run Fixed > Setup races do you have someone basically tailor a setup for the league > OR do you use one of the standard setups that come with the game? I've been in a league where we always take the standard fixed, except if it's really too loose. When tighten it up a little. FYI, car manufacturers make no difference in the way the car feels since Nascar Racing 3. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:l8ON8.11159$[email hidden]...

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> I've been in a league where we always take the standard fixed, except if > it's really too loose. When tighten it up a little. FYI, car manufacturers > make no difference in the way the car feels since Nascar Racing 3. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > >

I thought that the cars model was not common until N4? N3 IIRC still had different handling between the makes, like I said at least I thought that was the case since setups were marked as pontiac, chevy, etc...specifically -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash >

Is it possible in fixed setup races to pit and adjust the handling of the car there?

>"Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote > I thought that the cars model was not common until N4? N3 IIRC still haddifferent handling between > the makes, like I said at least I thought that was the case since setupswere marked as pontiac, > chevy, etc...specifically I thought the whole deal stopped with NR99 (which had fictional car manufacturers but they handled differently). Dunno, but anyway if we go back to his point, well since we're talking about N4 creating a specific chassis for a Ford/Chevy/Pontiac/Dodge won't make a difference. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote > Is it possible in fixed setup races to pit and adjust the handling of the > car there? No, except for the number of tyre (2 lefts, 2 rights or 4) and the amount of fuel in the gas tank. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

In article <jPNN8.57159$[email hidden]>, "SimRacer" <[email hidden]> writes: >This has presented little problem EXCEPT for Coca Cola. The >stock <fast> there will blow up in the draft, even at 70� and clear...We >found this out the very night of the race, in practice, and all 17 of us >agreed I could back out, change the <fast> to have 5% less tape and restart. Really? RASCAR racers, remind me about this before we run there. I'll make *only* that change... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Really!?! Its always been grayed out on fixed setups so I just thought it was not adjustable. Never actually tried to change it. Time to start playing with it. MadDAWG

And that is one of the things that really bugs me about N4 and N2k2. It should be fixed at the start of the race and then when you pit you should be able to adjust Wedge, Tape etc to fix the handling for each driver. N3 was like that and I do not know why they changed. Oh well just have to learn to live. Thanks, Bif ymenard wrote:

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> >"Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Is it possible in fixed setup races to pit and adjust the handling of the > > car there? > > No, except for the number of tyre (2 lefts, 2 rights or 4) and the amount of > fuel in the gas tank. > > -- > -- François Ménard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

You ARE Good! Yup it was Michigan. And actually it was loose in both corners. I tried like you said driving in harder into T3 to try and get the car to hook up but the car then would just take off into the wall. It was a real pain. I think the other problem was we are running real weather. Because the Setup ran real good in Practice right before the race. But as soon as the race started the car was unmanagable. At least it was for me and some other of the not so good drivers. The better drivers did not have a problem. It is funny to hear what your league is doing cause we too just shut down the N4 League racing and are going to N2k2 Starting next week (I believe). Plus I have noticed the N4 just seemed too twitchy. N2k2 is a lot smoother and a lot easier to deal with. N4 from the very beginning I found did just not feel right and could not get a handle on it. I wonder a lot if that is not the reason the Papyrus came out with N2k2 so fast. I had only just got N4 in Dec and right away there was N2k2. Hopefully I will have 2 years with N2k2 now. As far as putting the setups out at the beginning of the season... Well they do not do that. My league is kind of not run real well. Mainly because it is just a bunch of guys looking to have some fun. If we have a setup the week before we were kind of lucky. I think N2k2 because we have just started it I am pretty sure that we will be using the stock setups. I know when we ran Pocono in N4 I had nothing but problems but then when we ran N2k2 the Setup was good for me and I did not spin out once. Well anyway thanks for the info SimRacer. Later, Bif1988 SimRacer wrote:

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> Hey bif1988, what track are we talking about? It almost sounds like > Michigan...that can cause some problems especially into T3. Lifting going > into 3 can bring the rear end around on a lot of the better setups for that > place. The secret there is to simply drive the car into the corner > further...sounds crazy I know, same way with good setups at Vegas. Loose > loose on entry until you get the hang of driving down into the corner and > coasting until all 4 tires hook back up. > > To support you though, we had considered 'tuned' fixed setups for our league > until they decided to release 2002 on us as we were readying for another N4 > season. Our deal was the whole lot of fixed setups (for all 12 venues) were > going to be released to the league BEFORE the season even started. I felt > this was only fair to the racers. Since we went to 2002 and started our > season within a few weeks of its release, we decided to just run the stock > <fast> setups. This has presented little problem EXCEPT for Coca Cola. The > stock <fast> there will blow up in the draft, even at 70º and clear...We > found this out the very night of the race, in practice, and all 17 of us > agreed I could back out, change the <fast> to have 5% less tape and restart. > No more blowups were experienced and everyone had an input on how to fix the > problem. > > Anyway, long story short, they should use included setups or publish the > setups they intend to use for each track at the beginning of the season. At > least they should send out the setup a week or more ahead of each venue. I > would check the setup as it shows up in the garage (you can't change it but > it does show the correct data in grey) to make sure someone isn't sneaking > in different setups before each race. I would hope not... > > "bif1988" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Well and that is kind of my point. The guy is tearing up the league. Now > mind you he did so in N3 > > also but as the league went to N4 he wins everything where as in N3 we did > not run fixed setups and > > others seemed to be winning. And I believe that not using the Standard > setups for the game makes for > > an advantage. Also the fact that he will set the car up for his driving > style which will not > > necessarily benefit any other driver. Where using the Standard setups it > will be a hit or miss thing > > as to who will like the setup better. > > > > It was mostly frustrating last night because I got to the track for > Practice and I had no problems with > > the setup. But once the race started I could not keep the car under me. > If I let off the car would > > spin. If I would not let off as much to prevent the spin the car would > push into the wall. Now I am > > not a great driver and I know it. But I also know that I can usually > handle the Standard setups pretty > > well. Better stop my vent. > > > > But thanks all. You pretty much told me what I thought should happen. > > > > Thanks and Later, > > Bif1988 > > > > Biz wrote: > > > > > Most of the issues were addressed by other posters, but.... > > > > > > If someone is making a custom fixed setup that everyone uses, it needs > to be made available to all > > > league members days if not weeks b4 the race at that circuit so everyone > has a chance to practice > > > with it. I feel thats one of the reasons most leagues just use one of > the default setups(usually > > > fast), no they are not as good on tire wear or most tend to be a little > tight, but in your > > > situation, it seems the guy creating the setups would have an advantage > over most if not almost all > > > of the drivers. IMO, NOT the way to run a fixed setup league..... > > > -- > > > Biz > > > > > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand > > > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular > structures,....and > > > the....." - Ash > > > > > > > >

Now THIS would be a very, very cool feature..... John "bif1988" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... And that is one of the things that really bugs me about N4 and N2k2. It should be fixed at the start of the race and then when you pit you should be able to adjust Wedge, Tape etc to fix the handling for each driver. N3 was like that and I do not know why they changed. Oh well just have to learn to live. Thanks, Bif ymenard wrote: > >"Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Is it possible in fixed setup races to pit and adjust the handling ofthe > > car there? > > No, except for the number of tyre (2 lefts, 2 rights or 4) and the amountof

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> fuel in the gas tank. > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>N3 was like that and I do not know why they changed. I remember one online race at tally in n3 where darn near the whole field pitted on the first lap. I'm assuming to make changes since there was no wreck or need for gas. The two of us that stayed out were sitting ducks when they ran us down and left us in a few laps. Now at tracks other than plate tracks it seems like this wouldn't work, but not sure. MadDAWG

If I remember correctly although the black boxes would allow you to ask for changes in N3, any tire pressure, wedge, spoiler, or grille tape changes ended up being ignored when a fixed setup race. As is still the case in N4 and NR2002 you could only choose the amount of fuel and number of tires to take on a pit stop. - Eric "bif1988" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... And that is one of the things that really bugs me about N4 and N2k2. It should be fixed at the start of the race and then when you pit you should be able to adjust Wedge, Tape etc to fix the handling for each driver. N3 was like that and I do not know why they changed.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <jPNN8.57159$[email hidden]>, "SimRacer" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >This has presented little problem EXCEPT for Coca Cola. The > >stock <fast> there will blow up in the draft, even at 70� and clear...We > >found this out the very night of the race, in practice, and all 17 of us > >agreed I could back out, change the <fast> to have 5% less tape and

restart. > > Really? RASCAR racers, remind me about this before we run there. I'llmake > *only* that change... > > Eldred Really Eldred, we had at least 6 different guys lose an engine in our practice session before the race on that night. It seemed we were pushing the water and oil temps, so I tried the tape and all went ok for the most part. One guy did still lose and engine during the event, but we are guessing he had some front end damage that aided it that time. I recommend someone trying it for you guys before the day of the event, we sure should have...Fixed <fast>, 70� and Clear with no wind. It only happens in the draft, running alone seemed to teeter on the edge, but following a car or more (faster speeds with more cars in line) definitely caused a problem. This was pre-second-patch however, I just thought of that so YMMV.

"bif1988" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... And that is one of the things that really bugs me about N4 and N2k2. It should be fixed at the start of the race and then when you pit you should be able to adjust Wedge, Tape etc to fix the handling for each driver. N3 was like that and I do not know why they changed. Oh well just have to learn to live. Thanks, Bif Honestly bif1988, as long as one uses moderate damage with the fixed setup, you should be ok. Some yahoos think that running realistic damage with fixed is fun, but when you crush the rear end up to the c-pillar and you can't adjust for the horribly loose condition that will result from it (unless at Marty or Bristol), you just as well park the car.

In article <aeagck$kfh$[email hidden]>, "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> writes: >If I remember correctly although the black boxes would allow you to ask for >changes in N3, any tire pressure, wedge, spoiler, or grille tape changes >ended up being ignored when a fixed setup race. As is still the case in N4 >and NR2002 you could only choose the amount of fuel and number of tires to >take on a pit stop. Good! Being able to change the handling of the car would defeat the purpose of HAVING a fixed setup race. If you want to allow those changes, why not just open setups? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <Mb6O8.61168$[email hidden]>, "SimRacer" <[email hidden]> writes: >Honestly bif1988, as long as one uses moderate damage with the fixed setup, >you should be ok. Some yahoos think that running realistic damage with fixed >is fun, but when you crush the rear end up to the c-pillar and you can't >adjust for the horribly loose condition that will result from it (unless at >Marty or Bristol), you just as well park the car. Allowing people to change the handling characteristics would give the setup wizards an advantage. Maybe people will drive cleaner since they know they can't recover from their screwups...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

writes: Good! Being able to change the handling of the car would defeat the purpose of HAVING a fixed setup race. If you want to allow those changes, why not just open setups? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for *** cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <Mb6O8.61168$[email hidden]>, "SimRacer" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Honestly bif1988, as long as one uses moderate damage with the fixedsetup, > >you should be ok. Some yahoos think that running realistic damage withfixed > >is fun, but when you crush the rear end up to the c-pillar and you can't > >adjust for the horribly loose condition that will result from it (unlessat > >Marty or Bristol), you just as well park the car. > > Allowing people to change the handling characteristics would give thesetup > wizards an advantage. Maybe people will drive cleaner since they knowthey > can't recover from their screwups...<g> > > Eldred > -- > Not really Eldred; those who are fast with open setups, are also fastwith fixed. Seen it over and over and over............<G> John

In article <[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> writes: >> Not really Eldred; those who are fast with open setups, are also fast >with fixed. Seen it over and over and over............<G> Yeah, I know. I'm still trying to figure out how some guys were *3* seconds faster than me per lap at Pocono... :( With the SAME damn setup! Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >> Not really Eldred; those who are fast with open setups, are also fast > >with fixed. Seen it over and over and over............<G> > > Yeah, I know. I'm still trying to figure out how some guys were *3* seconds > faster than me per lap at Pocono... :( With the SAME damn setup!

I wouldn't worry too much about that, Pocono has never been an easy track to be really fast at, it's kinda like a road course in many ways, now if you're 3 seconds off the pace at Dega or Tona, *then* you can start to worry :-) I consider myself to be a half decent driver, used to run up front at road courses back on TEN and at least mid pack at most ovals, used to finish a lap or two down at Pocono with substantial damage to my car :-), I won't even talk about Darlington, I would be lucky to finish at all there Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--