RASCAR: Michigan

This is another 80-lap race at another huge track. I hope cautions are going to be turned off again. Here are my observations: 1) The fast setup is a bit pushy, so make sure you don't over-accelerate out of the corners (especially turn 2). It gets worse as the tires get some wear/heat on them. 2) If you enter turn 3/4 side-by-side with another car, the inside car has to slow a little more than they're used to to keep from pushing up into the outside car. This means the outside car can carry as much (if not more) speed through that turn as you can. Don't assume the outside car will back off, because he really doesn't have to. 3) This is a VERY wide track. There is no reason (for the outside car) to squeeze people down to the apron in the turns, and in fact is a dangerous tactic because of the setup's tendancy to be pushy. 4) My best time in offline practice has been 39.86, and I'm a mid-pack driver, so the aliens will be probably be running low 39's or maybe even 38's. My best time during an offline race was 40.01. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > This is another 80-lap race at another huge track. I hope cautions are > going to be turned off again. Here are my observations: I utterly disagree John. Yellows is such a big part of this game imho. If races are to continue being run without yellow, I think I'll just drop the whole thing. I did attend Pocono, even though I said I wouldn't, but that was mainly just to see who thing's went and just try the track, while I was waiting for dinner to be ready. (Which is why I had a 20 lap "pit-stop" in the middle of the race :-) I'm still very much thinking out a set of rules for the series - we are going to need some for sure. I just need a little more time to sort it all out. -- ed_

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >This is another 80-lap race at another huge track. I hope cautions are >going to be turned off again. Here are my observations: The 'no-yellows' at Pocono was just an experiment. Most people seem to prefer having yellows active... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 13 Jun 2002 16:30:20 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>This is another 80-lap race at another huge track. I hope cautions are >>going to be turned off again. Here are my observations: > >The 'no-yellows' at Pocono was just an experiment. Most people seem to prefer >having yellows active... > >Eldred

Pocono was a good track to try it at because the potential for incidents was high and it is a 2.5 mile track. With yellows, the race would have lasted for ever. As much as I am pro yellows I was kinda glad we didn't run them at Pocono (Plus I was wanted to get in the RASCAR race AND still make it to TMS in time for the IRL race, no yellows left me plenty of time). Michigan, while big, is not as big as Pocono AND it is one of the easier tracks to drive so we should not have as many incidents as some of the other tracks (and with that statement I have ensured that I will have no less than 3 self spins). I say turn the yellows back on. Brian Oster

Well, let me know so I don't waste my time. Didn't get far last race. How about some of the drivers actually practice before they race, or would that be asking too much. (-: "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> This is another 80-lap race at another huge track. I hope cautions are > going to be turned off again. Here are my observations: > > 1) The fast setup is a bit pushy, so make sure you don't over-accelerate > out of the corners (especially turn 2). It gets worse as the tires get > some wear/heat on them. > > 2) If you enter turn 3/4 side-by-side with another car, the inside car > has to slow a little more than they're used to to keep from pushing up > into the outside car. This means the outside car can carry as much (if > not more) speed through that turn as you can. Don't assume the outside > car will back off, because he really doesn't have to. > > 3) This is a VERY wide track. There is no reason (for the outside car) > to squeeze people down to the apron in the turns, and in fact is a > dangerous tactic because of the setup's tendancy to be pushy. > > 4) My best time in offline practice has been 39.86, and I'm a mid-pack > driver, so the aliens will be probably be running low 39's or maybe even > 38's. My best time during an offline race was 40.01. > > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

In article <7t%N8.2$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > This is another 80-lap race at another huge track. I hope cautions are > > going to be turned off again. Here are my observations: > > I utterly disagree John. Yellows is such a big part of this game imho. > If races are to continue being run without yellow, I think I'll just drop > the whole thing. > I did attend Pocono, even though I said I wouldn't, but that was mainly just > to see who thing's went and just try the track, while I was waiting for > dinner to be ready. (Which is why I had a 20 lap "pit-stop" in the middle of > the race :-) > > I'm still very much thinking out a set of rules for the series - we are > going to need some for sure. > I just need a little more time to sort it all out. > > -- > ed_

It really would be nice to run yellows, but our group has demonstrated time and time again that we simply can't do it. Nobody knows how to do a pace lap (much less what the pace speed is), everyone's too fuckin busy chatting, and it's just not a good mix. Add toi the mix the fact that only about 50% of those that show up put in any ptractice at all, and MAYBE 10% of those who practiced tried at least one offline race against the AI to see how the car handles in traffic at the track in question. I am firmly convinced that we're gonna end up doing 30-40 laps under yellow - again. If you ask me, that's bullshit because we run one or two laps and someone loses it somewhere and brings out yet another caution - we barely get any fuckin heat in the tires before someone wrecks again. Let's not forget some people's inability to judge distance and relative speed when catching up to the end of the pace line, and we see yet more incidents. I think that if this does in fact happen, we seriously consider tuirning off yellows permenantly because I have much better things to do than to do 50% of a race under caution. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

IMHO, it isn't hard to win a race when 50% of that race is run under caution. If you're in the lead, you tend to stay in the lead under those circumstances, and pit stops are pretty much a non-factor at that point. I say no yellows, but nobody else seems to agree. In article <ha7O8.33104$[email hidden]>, mgrandy2 @nycap.rr.com says... > Well, let me know so I don't waste my time. Didn't get far last race. How > about some of the drivers actually practice before they race, or would that > be asking too much. (-: > > -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Thank you! -- ed_ "EldredP" writes: > The 'no-yellows' at Pocono was just an experiment. Most people seem to prefer > having yellows active... >

I disagree, races are won on the last lap. Racing without cautions doesn't really prove a thing, only that whoever starts up front will probably remain there for most of the race. Not very realistic. -- Michael K. Grandy NonStop East LLC Ph(518)692-2252 Cel(518)424-5868 "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > IMHO, it isn't hard to win a race when 50% of that race is run under > caution. If you're in the lead, you tend to stay in the lead under > those circumstances, and pit stops are pretty much a non-factor at that > point. > > I say no yellows, but nobody else seems to agree. > > In article <ha7O8.33104$[email hidden]>, mgrandy2 > @nycap.rr.com says... > > Well, let me know so I don't waste my time. Didn't get far last race. How > > about some of the drivers actually practice before they race, or would that > > be asking too much. (-: > > > > > > > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

I like the strategy of yellows on (beyond the realism) cause thats the only chance us mortals have of winning one. On the other hand I'm not going to sit through endless laps of yellow either. The first few RASCAR races were quite clean, what happened to change that? Can a "Just for fun" league really even exist? In my mind "Just for Fun" and "racing" don't co-exist well. Even a fun league needs a basic rule set and and enforcement policy. Mitch "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ha7O8.33104$[email hidden]... > Well, let me know so I don't waste my time. Didn't get far last race. How > about some of the drivers actually practice before they race, or wouldthat

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> be asking too much. (-: > > > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > This is another 80-lap race at another huge track. I hope cautions are > > going to be turned off again. Here are my observations: > > > > 1) The fast setup is a bit pushy, so make sure you don't over-accelerate > > out of the corners (especially turn 2). It gets worse as the tires get > > some wear/heat on them. > > > > 2) If you enter turn 3/4 side-by-side with another car, the inside car > > has to slow a little more than they're used to to keep from pushing up > > into the outside car. This means the outside car can carry as much (if > > not more) speed through that turn as you can. Don't assume the outside > > car will back off, because he really doesn't have to. > > > > 3) This is a VERY wide track. There is no reason (for the outside car) > > to squeeze people down to the apron in the turns, and in fact is a > > dangerous tactic because of the setup's tendancy to be pushy. > > > > 4) My best time in offline practice has been 39.86, and I'm a mid-pack > > driver, so the aliens will be probably be running low 39's or maybe even > > 38's. My best time during an offline race was 40.01. > > > > -- > > ========================================================= > > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > > RASCAR Roster > > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > > ========================================================= > >

Hear you there Mike. I got work in the way anyway usually, but even so, I left my share of races to do something more productive. John "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ha7O8.33104$[email hidden]... > Well, let me know so I don't waste my time. Didn't get far last race. How > about some of the drivers actually practice before they race, or wouldthat

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> be asking too much. (-: > > > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > This is another 80-lap race at another huge track. I hope cautions are > > going to be turned off again. Here are my observations: > > > > 1) The fast setup is a bit pushy, so make sure you don't over-accelerate > > out of the corners (especially turn 2). It gets worse as the tires get > > some wear/heat on them. > > > > 2) If you enter turn 3/4 side-by-side with another car, the inside car > > has to slow a little more than they're used to to keep from pushing up > > into the outside car. This means the outside car can carry as much (if > > not more) speed through that turn as you can. Don't assume the outside > > car will back off, because he really doesn't have to. > > > > 3) This is a VERY wide track. There is no reason (for the outside car) > > to squeeze people down to the apron in the turns, and in fact is a > > dangerous tactic because of the setup's tendancy to be pushy. > > > > 4) My best time in offline practice has been 39.86, and I'm a mid-pack > > driver, so the aliens will be probably be running low 39's or maybe even > > 38's. My best time during an offline race was 40.01. > > > > -- > > ========================================================= > > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > > RASCAR Roster > > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > > ========================================================= > >

Mike, if Pocono is any indication, that's not necessarily a true statement. I started 13th (I think), and the ONLY reason I won was because I managed my fuel and tires better. Nobody really ran away with the number of laps led. Besides, I thought we were running longer races so that fuel economy, tire management, and pit stops *would* be a factor. IU think it's more fun trying to run down the leader and wonder who's gonna run outa gas first than following people around under the yellow flag. Like I said, I acknowledge that I'm in tyhe minority on this issue, but you guys should reconsider after this weeks race. The setup is pushy, and like Mike has already said, the number of people who will have practiced any at all will probably be slim, and they'll sure be surprised when they slap the wall coming out of turn two at about lap three. In article <bC7O8.33287$[email hidden]>, mgrandy2 @nycap.rr.com says...

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> I disagree, races are won on the last lap. Racing without cautions doesn't > really prove a thing, only that whoever starts up front will probably remain > there for most of the race. Not very realistic. > > -- > Michael K. Grandy > NonStop East LLC > Ph(518)692-2252 > Cel(518)424-5868 > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > IMHO, it isn't hard to win a race when 50% of that race is run under > > caution. If you're in the lead, you tend to stay in the lead under > > those circumstances, and pit stops are pretty much a non-factor at that > > point. > > > > I say no yellows, but nobody else seems to agree. > > > > In article <ha7O8.33104$[email hidden]>, mgrandy2 > > @nycap.rr.com says... > > > Well, let me know so I don't waste my time. Didn't get far last race. > How > > > about some of the drivers actually practice before they race, or would > that > > > be asking too much. (-: > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ========================================================= > > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > > RASCAR Roster > > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > > ========================================================= > > >

-- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

It is true that a race is won on the last lap, but normally preceded by the competition between drivers to determine who's capable of throughout the race manage both his cars and his own resources better than the others, with nerves, stamina, driving ability, strategic thinking, racecraft come into play. They are not usually won after a fifty lap procession without any real racing - well, except if it's an F1 race of course ;-) All this still comes into play when yellows occupy 5% of the race and a quick decision can affect everything, but where's the strategic element when you never even get exposed to the real challenges of a race because all you have to do is a quick sprint and then the next little pause comes in handy before you get under real pressure, before your nerves play a role because you've been under pressure for an extended period of time, or before you can become exhausted by having really raced at the limit for any substantial amount of time? Also, where is the strategic element when there are so many yellows that if you make the wrong decision during one yellow, that's no prob at all because you can rely upon the next yellow coming out soon enough to also iron out your wrong decision? In our races, all yellows do is keep us nicely together like a flock of young geese :-) ;-) Achim "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bC7O8.33287$[email hidden]... > I disagree, races are won on the last lap. Racing without cautions doesn't > really prove a thing, only that whoever starts up front will probablyremain

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> there for most of the race. Not very realistic. > > -- > Michael K. Grandy > NonStop East LLC > Ph(518)692-2252 > Cel(518)424-5868

On 13 Jun 2002 16:30:20 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>This is another 80-lap race at another huge track. I hope cautions are >>going to be turned off again. Here are my observations: > >The 'no-yellows' at Pocono was just an experiment. Most people seem to prefer >having yellows active... > >Eldred

Maybe we should try the single file re-start "expirement". I don't like it a whole lot better than no yellows, but maybe it might be a good comprimise. Brian Oster

On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:10:33 GMT, "Mitch Alatorre" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I like the strategy of yellows on (beyond the realism) cause thats the only >chance us mortals have of winning one. On the other hand I'm not going to >sit through endless laps of yellow either. > >The first few RASCAR races were quite clean, what happened to change that? >Can a "Just for fun" league really even exist? In my mind "Just for Fun" >and "racing" don't co-exist well. Even a fun league needs a basic rule set >and and enforcement policy. > > >Mitch >

What I don't understand is that practice usually seems to be pretty clean but as soon as the green flag drops everyone starts wrecking each other. Since this is a "Just for fun" league as you called it, it probably would be hard to implement any kind of rules outside of what exists in the sim. But maybe we could have some "honor" system rules and some plain common sense. Like, if you CAUSE 2 or more yellows maybe you should park it. If you see a buch of smoke in front of you maybe it might be a good idea to start slowing down so that you can avoid what is up ahead. It seems like the minute I lift off the throttle due to something happening in front of me I get tagged from behind by someone who sees an opportunity to gain 5 or 6 spots rather than tryiing to keep the fenders on. Anyway, I hope the yellows return. Brian Oster

In article <ha7O8.33104$[email hidden]>, "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> writes: >Well, let me know so I don't waste my time. Didn't get far last race. How >about some of the drivers actually practice before they race, or would that >be asking too much. (-: > Yellows will be on - single file restarts. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <dT7O8.6905$[email hidden]>, "Mitch Alatorre" <[email hidden]> writes: >The first few RASCAR races were quite clean, what happened to change that? More people started joining. With only 9 or 10 cars, it was easier to stay our of each other's way. With 30+, it gets a bit harder... >Can a "Just for fun" league really even exist? In my mind "Just for Fun" >and "racing" don't co-exist well. Even a fun league needs a basic rule set >and and enforcement policy. I'm in the OSRL league for GPL. There aren't any rules(except have fun), and we have some great races. No points, no stats - seems to work fine... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes:

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>It really would be nice to run yellows, but our group has demonstrated >time and time again that we simply can't do it. Nobody knows how to do >a pace lap (much less what the pace speed is), everyone's too fuckin >busy chatting, and it's just not a good mix. Add toi the mix the fact >that only about 50% of those that show up put in any ptractice at all, >and MAYBE 10% of those who practiced tried at least one offline race >against the AI to see how the car handles in traffic at the track in >question.

Question: where IS the pace speed stated for each track? You can tell the pitlane speed because your spotter tells you. It the pace speed always 10 mph faster than that?

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>I am firmly convinced that we're gonna end up doing 30-40 laps under >yellow - again. If you ask me, that's bullshit because we run one or two >laps and someone loses it somewhere and brings out yet another caution - >we barely get any fuckin heat in the tires before someone wrecks again. > >Let's not forget some people's inability to judge distance and relative >speed when catching up to the end of the pace line, and we see yet more >incidents.

It seems that the sense of speed is just not there, at least on MY system. You can be 40-60 mph faster than the paceline, and it's not apparent until you're right THERE. I've run up on the pack a bit quicker than I expected before. But since I always stagger my alignment, it hasn't caused a problem(except one). > >I think that if this does in fact happen, we seriously consider tuirning >off yellows permenantly because I have much better things to do than to >do 50% of a race under caution. This race will have caution flags, with *single* file restarts. Drivers who want to run, *please* read the rules on John's site: http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar/ There will likely be modifications to those rules in the future, but this is a good start. Unfortunately, I'm going to start eliminating drivers if we can't drive cleanly. :-( Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, JohnSimmons

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> <[email hidden]> writes: > > >It really would be nice to run yellows, but our group has demonstrated > >time and time again that we simply can't do it. Nobody knows how to do > >a pace lap (much less what the pace speed is), everyone's too fuckin > >busy chatting, and it's just not a good mix. Add toi the mix the fact > >that only about 50% of those that show up put in any ptractice at all, > >and MAYBE 10% of those who practiced tried at least one offline race > >against the AI to see how the car handles in traffic at the track in > >question. > > Question: where IS the pace speed stated for each track? You can tell the > pitlane speed because your spotter tells you. It the pace speed always 10

mph

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> faster than that? > > >I am firmly convinced that we're gonna end up doing 30-40 laps under > >yellow - again. If you ask me, that's bullshit because we run one or two > >laps and someone loses it somewhere and brings out yet another caution - > >we barely get any fuckin heat in the tires before someone wrecks again. > > > >Let's not forget some people's inability to judge distance and relative > >speed when catching up to the end of the pace line, and we see yet more > >incidents. > > It seems that the sense of speed is just not there, at least on MY system.

You > can be 40-60 mph faster than the paceline, and it's not apparent untilyou're > right THERE. I've run up on the pack a bit quicker than I expectedbefore.

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> But since I always stagger my alignment, it hasn't caused a problem(except > one). > > > > >I think that if this does in fact happen, we seriously consider tuirning > >off yellows permenantly because I have much better things to do than to > >do 50% of a race under caution. > > This race will have caution flags, with *single* file restarts. Drivers

who > want to run, *please* read the rules on John's site: > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar/ There will likely be modifications tothose > rules in the future, but this is a good start. > > Unfortunately, I'm going to start eliminating drivers if we can't drive > cleanly. :-( > > Eldred Again<G>, this is where the F2 key comes into play..........if you have it on, you see how far/how quickly you're approaching the pacing line. John

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <dT7O8.6905$[email hidden]>, "Mitch > Alatorre" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >The first few RASCAR races were quite clean, what happened to changethat? > > More people started joining. With only 9 or 10 cars, it was easier tostay our > of each other's way. With 30+, it gets a bit harder... > > > >Can a "Just for fun" league really even exist? In my mind "Just for Fun" > >and "racing" don't co-exist well. Even a fun league needs a basic ruleset > >and and enforcement policy. > > I'm in the OSRL league for GPL. There aren't any rules(except have fun),and > we have some great races. No points, no stats - seems to work fine... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research.The > walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my > webpage. > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. A just for fun league can exist, with the right mindsets. Been there, done that :) Unfortunately, having the right mindsets can be difficult with X percentage of each week's field someone different/new. GPL isn't a good comparison IMO, as the racing is completely different compared to oval racing, but it IS done in N2002 too. John

In article <[email hidden]>, bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.com says... > > What I don't understand is that practice usually seems to be pretty > clean but as soon as the green flag drops everyone starts wrecking > each other. It's called "adrenaline". :) > Since this is a "Just for fun" league as you called it, it probably > would be hard to implement any kind of rules outside of what exists in > the sim. But maybe we could have some "honor" system rules and some > plain common sense. The problem is that we're such a loose conglomeration of drivers that it's impossible to assume that everyone will "get the word". Besides that, some folks that get the word will claim that they didn't entirely understand the ruleset. > Like, if you CAUSE 2 or more yellows maybe you > should park it. That is (and damn well should be) up to the driver. > If you see a buch of smoke in front of you maybe it > might be a good idea to start slowing down so that you can avoid what > is up ahead. What if they don't have smoke turned on? > It seems like the minute I lift off the throttle due to > something happening in front of me I get tagged from behind by someone > who sees an opportunity to gain 5 or 6 spots rather than tryiing to > keep the fenders on. There's really nothing you can do about the lack of common sense in another driver's actions except to hope that he gets a clue before the next race. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Dont forget to set it to full pace-lap this time!!!! (Also, would be nice if you could turn on that "clear_replay_buffer_between_sessions"option on the server so the replays become abit smaller... The 40minutes - (thats +/- 35mb!) of practice, qual and warmup is just a waste of time anyway. The "clear_replay_buffer_between_sessions" option can be found in the core.ini or the the player.ini files on the server... -- ed_

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >It really would be nice to run yellows, but our group has demonstrated > >time and time again that we simply can't do it. Nobody knows how to do > >a pace lap (much less what the pace speed is), everyone's too fuckin > >busy chatting, and it's just not a good mix. Add toi the mix the fact > >that only about 50% of those that show up put in any ptractice at all, > >and MAYBE 10% of those who practiced tried at least one offline race > >against the AI to see how the car handles in traffic at the track in > >question. > > Question: where IS the pace speed stated for each track?

I don't know where (or even if) it's listed anywhere, but if everyone runs at least one practice race offline, they will know the pace and pit lane speed. > You can tell the pitlane speed because your spotter tells you. It the > pace speed always 10 mph faster than that? Evidently not. Pace speed is 70 mph at MIS, but pit lane speed is only 55. > It seems that the sense of speed is just not there, at least on MY system. You > can be 40-60 mph faster than the paceline, and it's not apparent until you're > right THERE. I've run up on the pack a bit quicker than I expected before. > But since I always stagger my alignment, it hasn't caused a problem(except > one). Just approach the pace line at/near the apron of the track. > > Unfortunately, I'm going to start eliminating drivers if we can't drive > cleanly. :-( > You're going to have to use the invite list to do that. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

"John Simmons" >

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> > If you see a buch of smoke in front of you maybe it > > might be a good idea to start slowing down so that you can avoid what > > is up ahead. > > What if they don't have smoke turned on? >

That's what the Server checkbox ''force smoke" is for....of course it goes part n parcel with force cockpit... :) dave henrie

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> > It seems like the minute I lift off the throttle due to > > something happening in front of me I get tagged from behind by someone > > who sees an opportunity to gain 5 or 6 spots rather than tryiing to > > keep the fenders on. > > There's really nothing you can do about the lack of common sense in > another driver's actions except to hope that he gets a clue before the > next race. > > > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

I agree about the pushiness. I don't necessarily agree about the yellows. IMHO, not having Yellows takes a lot of the racing out of the race, especially since Pit strategy is so important in fixed races (or any long races, for that matter). The push out of turn 2 is a handful. Be ready! -Larry "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> This is another 80-lap race at another huge track. I hope cautions are > going to be turned off again. Here are my observations: > > 1) The fast setup is a bit pushy, so make sure you don't over-accelerate > out of the corners (especially turn 2). It gets worse as the tires get > some wear/heat on them. > > 2) If you enter turn 3/4 side-by-side with another car, the inside car > has to slow a little more than they're used to to keep from pushing up > into the outside car. This means the outside car can carry as much (if > not more) speed through that turn as you can. Don't assume the outside > car will back off, because he really doesn't have to. > > 3) This is a VERY wide track. There is no reason (for the outside car) > to squeeze people down to the apron in the turns, and in fact is a > dangerous tactic because of the setup's tendancy to be pushy. > > 4) My best time in offline practice has been 39.86, and I'm a mid-pack > driver, so the aliens will be probably be running low 39's or maybe even > 38's. My best time during an offline race was 40.01. > > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:53:42 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"John Simmons" > >> > If you see a buch of smoke in front of you maybe it >> > might be a good idea to start slowing down so that you can avoid what >> > is up ahead. >> > >> What if they don't have smoke turned on? >> > That's what the Server checkbox ''force smoke" is for....of course it >goes part n parcel with force cockpit... :) >dave henrie >

I would like to see both. I can understand smoke since some people may need to have it turned off for performance reasons, but I think force cockpit should be checked. I wonder how many RASCAR drivers DON'T use cockpit view? Brian Oster

On 14 Jun 2002 02:09:15 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>It really would be nice to run yellows, but our group has demonstrated >>time and time again that we simply can't do it. Nobody knows how to do >>a pace lap (much less what the pace speed is), everyone's too fuckin >>busy chatting, and it's just not a good mix. Add toi the mix the fact >>that only about 50% of those that show up put in any ptractice at all, >>and MAYBE 10% of those who practiced tried at least one offline race >>against the AI to see how the car handles in traffic at the track in >>question. > >Question: where IS the pace speed stated for each track? You can tell the >pitlane speed because your spotter tells you. It the pace speed always 10 mph >faster than that? >

Well, if anyone has a problem figuring out what the pace speed is, they can always take a few minutes before they boot up N2002 on Sat. and look at the ini file for the track. Brian Oster

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >> If you see a buch of smoke in front of you maybe it >> might be a good idea to start slowing down so that you can avoid what >> is up ahead. > >What if they don't have smoke turned on? Maybe I should "force smoke"...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.com> writes: >What I don't understand is that practice usually seems to be pretty >clean but as soon as the green flag drops everyone starts wrecking >each other. > Practice usually doesn't have 'clumps' of cars running together. There may be a few pairs of drafting partners, but not the 10-15 that occur during the race. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> writes: > Again<G>, this is where the F2 key comes into play..........if you have it >on, you see how far/how quickly you're approaching the pacing line. Yeah, I know. Problem is that you need to see where you're going to stay on the track. Trying to keep an eye on the F2 display can sometimes result in re-designing your car against the wall...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, JohnSimmons

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> <[email hidden]> writes: > > >> If you see a buch of smoke in front of you maybe it > >> might be a good idea to start slowing down so that you can avoid what > >> is up ahead. > > > >What if they don't have smoke turned on? > > Maybe I should "force smoke"...<g> > > Eldred > -- >

I don't think anyone should be forced to smoke........and the same goes for mandatory drug testing ! No one should be forced to test drugs ! :) John

"Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.com> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Maybe we should try the single file re-start "expirement". I don't > like it a whole lot better than no yellows, but maybe it might be a > good comprimise. Double file seems to put the worst drivers (generally, not always) in front of most of the field right next to the leaders (who are much faster). Surely this is one of the main causes of mostly yellow races?

In article <dZiO8.10$[email hidden]>, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> writes: >Dont forget to set it to full pace-lap this time!!!! >Banked track - full pace lap, check.

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>(Also, would be nice if you could turn on that >"clear_replay_buffer_between_sessions"option on the server so the replays >become abit smaller... The 40minutes - (thats +/- 35mb!) of practice, qual >and warmup is just a waste of time anyway. > >The "clear_replay_buffer_between_sessions" option can be found in the >core.ini or the the player.ini files on the server...

I keep forgetting about this...I'm too used to GPL where the practice IS useful to watch... Change player.ini, check. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

How about a switch 'Force Brains ON' ? That doesn't affect framerate at all and might help, too... ;-) Achim "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, JohnSimmons

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> <[email hidden]> writes: > > >> If you see a buch of smoke in front of you maybe it > >> might be a good idea to start slowing down so that you can avoid what > >> is up ahead. > > > >What if they don't have smoke turned on? > > Maybe I should "force smoke"...<g> > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research.

The > walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my > webpage. > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 19:31:12 -0000, Joachim Trensz <[email hidden]> wrote: > How about a switch 'Force Brains ON' ? That doesn't affect framerate at all > and might help, too... ;-) > > Achim > I ran a couple of AI races tonight, and yes, there were a couple of starts where there was no crash. I am hopeful for tomorrow ;-) uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

In article <[email hidden]>, bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.com says...

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> On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:53:42 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > > > >"John Simmons" > > >> > If you see a buch of smoke in front of you maybe it > >> > might be a good idea to start slowing down so that you can avoid what > >> > is up ahead. > >> > > > >> What if they don't have smoke turned on? > >> > > That's what the Server checkbox ''force smoke" is for....of course it > >goes part n parcel with force cockpit... :) > >dave henrie > > > > I would like to see both. I can understand smoke since some people > may need to have it turned off for performance reasons, but I think > force cockpit should be checked. I wonder how many RASCAR drivers > DON'T use cockpit view? > > Brian Oster >

I don't, and it doesn't bother me any. I don't think anything should be forced on, and besides, it's easy to defeat the force cockpit on thing by changing all the views to be your desired mode of driving. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Ummm... since we're sim racers, maybe we should finally go all the way and simulate our sim races. By creating AI drivers with our names and let them race against each other. This way, when there are yellows, we can simply get up and go for a walk. And when our driver messes up, we can always say it was bad AI programming. All in all, I think this is the way to go... ;-) Achim "Uwe Schuerkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... ... > I ran a couple of AI races tonight, and yes, there were a > couple of starts where there was no crash. I am hopeful for > tomorrow ;-)...

In article <aed935$610gh$[email hidden]>, "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> writes: >How about a switch 'Force Brains ON' ? That doesn't affect framerate at all >and might help, too... ;-) > We'd have to talk to Papy about that one. Eric B.? :-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 23:45:33 -0000, Joachim Trensz <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Ummm... since we're sim racers, maybe we should finally go all the way and > simulate our sim races. By creating AI drivers with our names and let them > race against each other. This way, when there are yellows, we can simply get > up and go for a walk. And when our driver messes up, we can always say it > was bad AI programming. > > All in all, I think this is the way to go... ;-) >

this is not as far fetched as it sounds, Achim. There is a driving sim for Linux where you program "bots" to do the driving for you and race those bots against others. The name escapes me at the moment, but a freshmeat search should bring it up. I found the concept quite interesting. Cheers, uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Uwe Schuerkamp wrote: > this is not as far fetched as it sounds, Achim. There is a > driving sim for Linux where you program "bots" to do the > driving for you and race those bots against others. > > The name escapes me at the moment, but a freshmeat search > should bring it up. I found the concept quite interesting. http://rars.sourceforge.net/ -- Fester

Just quit from the RASCAR race on lap 30/31 and studied my client replay. It was my first RASCAR race (in fact my first online race), but I caused an incident on lap 27 and I wanted to apologise. I went into T1 very high (almost on the wall) because the #47 car was passing low, but as I lifted off I brushed the wall (quite softly), but it was enough to throw me sideways as I came off it. I tried to control it (and did), except I slid down low and the #170 hit me (unavoidably). We spun and collected the #17, #67 and #26 cars too. Anyway, I quit. Hope you had a good race, sorry about that incident and hope you'll let me in next time... Confessions of the #167 car Nick Govier (aka catisfit) BTW, what a damn decent way to spend 1p a minute over here in the UK!