Rascar Las Vegas

Nice race guys! Pretty clean for such a tough track :) For some reason, the race didn't score. Edred ? I only have one minor gripe, and I'll do it without mentioning names :) With 15 - 20 laps to go (or so), there was one car (on the lead lap) that was MARKEDLY slower than the pack behind in the corners. Slow to the point that several times I had to actually lock up the tires to stay out of the back-end of him. The speed difference really was quite major. Unless it's the last 2 laps or so, I always let faster cars go by. It's just a wreck waiting to happen if you don't, especially at such a tight track like this. This really bunched us up for many laps until we finally get by, and I even ended up tapping the wall out of 4 when I gave up and tried to go around on the outside, which is not what you want to have to do at this track. No biggie, I just found it a bit unusual :) -Larry

"Larry (The Other Larry)" wrote...

Quoted text (24 lines)

> Nice race guys! Pretty clean for such a tough track :) > > For some reason, the race didn't score. Edred ? > > I only have one minor gripe, and I'll do it without > mentioning names :) > > With 15 - 20 laps to go (or so), there was one car (on > the lead lap) that was MARKEDLY slower than the pack > behind in the corners. Slow to the point that several > times I had to actually lock up the tires to stay out > of the back-end of him. The speed difference really > was quite major. > > Unless it's the last 2 laps or so, I always let faster > cars go by. It's just a wreck waiting to happen if > you don't, especially at such a tight track like this. > > This really bunched us up for many laps until we finally > get by, and I even ended up tapping the wall out of 4 > when I gave up and tried to go around on the outside, > which is not what you want to have to do at this track. > > No biggie, I just found it a bit unusual :)

I had a front row seat to that one... good job the car behind me understood the situation as well and we didn't really end up fighting amongst ourselves. I think it deserves a mention this same person later, on fresh tyres after last yellow, really barged past you and me to the point where we both had to go out of our way quite some way to prevent an accident. How was that pass I made on you, BTW? -Locked a wheel, but I think I held my line quite well. If you thought it was a bit "limit", feel free to say so though. With one to go it was a bit "now or never" so I took a bigger chance than I normally would. Jan. =---

> I had a front row seat to that one... good job the car behind meunderstood > the situation as well and we didn't really end up fighting amongst > ourselves. I think it deserves a mention this same person later, on fresh > tyres after last yellow, really barged past you and me to the point wherewe > both had to go out of our way quite some way to prevent an accident. Yeah, I saw you back there :) I appreciate that you were being very careful because I have no doubt my braking was quite erratic at this point, not knowing when the hell to hit them :) I was wondering how the heck he was able to blast past us like that! I saw him coming, saw that you were being pressured, so I just nuged up high and let you both go by under me. There was no need to contest it because you were both faster. I pretty much used up my tires during that 3-5 laps of trying to get around him (The flat spots probably didn't help :)), and I had a little fender damage from one of the attempts so I think I had lost some downforce as well. > How was that pass I made on you, BTW? -Locked a wheel, but I think I heldmy > line quite well. If you thought it was a bit "limit", feel free to say so > though. With one to go it was a bit "now or never" so I took a biggerchance > than I normally would It was just fine, Jan. No worries :) I knew you were being pressured hard so I stayed up as far as I could :) -Larry . > > Jan. > =--- > >

In article <5iqT8.90268$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> says... > Nice race guys! Pretty clean for such a tough track :) > > For some reason, the race didn't score. Edred ? Score where? My LPI changed. > I only have one minor gripe, and I'll do it without mentioning names :) Mrention names. If they don't know there's a problem, they can't fix it. If you're talking about me, bite me. :) > With 15 - 20 laps to go (or so), there was one car (on the lead lap) that > was MARKEDLY slower than the pack behind in the corners. Slow to the point > that several times I had to actually lock up the tires to stay out of the > back-end of him. The speed difference really was quite major. > If you're faster, it's your job to find the best path around the slower car, not his job to let you by. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:40:26 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

>In article <5iqT8.90268$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The >Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> says... >> Nice race guys! Pretty clean for such a tough track :) >> >> For some reason, the race didn't score. Edred ? > >Score where? My LPI changed.

Scored races don't always display an MP message for some reason. I have noticed it even on the Papy servers but it is always there later on. > >> I only have one minor gripe, and I'll do it without mentioning names :) > >Mrention names. If they don't know there's a problem, they can't fix it. >If you're talking about me, bite me. :) Heck it coulda been me. On the second to last restart I was really braking hard in the turns since I was in heavy traffic and it seemed like I was on the bottom 3 wide in serveral situations and was trying to make sure I didn't push up into the cars on the outside of me.

Quoted text (10 lines)

> >> With 15 - 20 laps to go (or so), there was one car (on the lead lap) that >> was MARKEDLY slower than the pack behind in the corners. Slow to the point >> that several times I had to actually lock up the tires to stay out of the >> back-end of him. The speed difference really was quite major. >> > >If you're faster, it's your job to find the best path around the slower >car, not his job to let you by. >

Agreed. I don't have a problem with a slower car trying to hold position if the car behind is faster. If it is a lapper and the leaders are clearly faster then, yes, you should pull out of the way. However, if you are pretty equal and you are fighting to stay on the lead lap, then I don't have a problem with that either. Personally if it is early on in the race I will probably let the faster car go when racing for position... 20 or 10 laps to go, you better figure out a way to get around me. Brian Oster

Well for my first full on line oval race I thought I did pretty well. I spun once on my own after catching a tire on the "berms", but no yellow and carried on. Then under yellow I rear ended Jan trying to find the button for fuel, my apologies Jan ( I don't have all the buttons needed for Nascar added to the cockpit dash yet) and the last under green when I saw two cars approaching (in my mirrors and via F2) so I tried to stay high but the second car grazed the wall so I assumed he would stay high and I started to go low and we collected each other, my apologies as well. So really not too bad of a start, I tried to keep out of the way of the faster guys and not cause any yellows... it can only get better.... -- Edward Commissioner Middle-Aged Racers Association (MARA) "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:awqT8.4119$[email hidden]... > "Larry (The Other Larry)" wrote... > > Nice race guys! Pretty clean for such a tough track :) > > > > For some reason, the race didn't score. Edred ? > > > > I only have one minor gripe, and I'll do it without > > mentioning names :) > > > > With 15 - 20 laps to go (or so), there was one car (on > > the lead lap) that was MARKEDLY slower than the pack > > behind in the corners. Slow to the point that several > > times I had to actually lock up the tires to stay out > > of the back-end of him. The speed difference really > > was quite major. > > > > Unless it's the last 2 laps or so, I always let faster > > cars go by. It's just a wreck waiting to happen if > > you don't, especially at such a tight track like this. > > > > This really bunched us up for many laps until we finally > > get by, and I even ended up tapping the wall out of 4 > > when I gave up and tried to go around on the outside, > > which is not what you want to have to do at this track. > > > > No biggie, I just found it a bit unusual :) > > I had a front row seat to that one... good job the car behind me understood > the situation as well and we didn't really end up fighting amongst > ourselves. I think it deserves a mention this same person later, on fresh > tyres after last yellow, really barged past you and me to the point where we > both had to go out of our way quite some way to prevent an accident. > > How was that pass I made on you, BTW? -Locked a wheel, but I think I held my > line quite well. If you thought it was a bit "limit", feel free to say so > though. With one to go it was a bit "now or never" so I took a bigger chance > than I normally would. > > Jan. > =--- > >

Well, given that this was the cleanest race (and by cleanest I mean the cautions fell right were I needed them) since I started racing RASCAR so I would assume you did pretty good. I don't remember you from the race, but I remember running with you in practice and based on practice I expected you to be one of the "faster guys", but I understand your position... my first RASCAR race my only goal was not to be the one who prompted Eldred to create a muzzle list. Brian Oster On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 00:04:37 GMT, "Edward C" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>Well for my first full on line oval race I thought I did pretty well. I spun >once on my own after catching a tire on the "berms", but no yellow and >carried on. Then under yellow I rear ended Jan trying to find the button for >fuel, my apologies Jan ( I don't have all the buttons needed for Nascar >added to the cockpit dash yet) and the last under green when I saw two cars >approaching (in my mirrors and via F2) so I tried to stay high but the >second car grazed the wall so I assumed he would stay high and I started to >go low and we collected each other, my apologies as well. So really not too >bad of a start, I tried to keep out of the way of the faster guys and not >cause any yellows... it can only get better....

First priority was to have a clean race (and not hit Eldred, John, Dave, Dave, Larry, Jan... ok I messed up that one.etc.) It certainly is a different beast than GPL. I was being much more careful in the race as opposed to practice. It's just a shame I don't get many Saturdays off :-) Also Jan and I run in the same GPL league so it was fun running with him in NASCAR as well Much to learn.... -- Edward Commissioner Middle-Aged Racers Association (MARA) "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.com> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well, given that this was the cleanest race (and by cleanest I mean > the cautions fell right were I needed them) since I started racing > RASCAR so I would assume you did pretty good. > > I don't remember you from the race, but I remember running with you in > practice and based on practice I expected you to be one of the "faster > guys", but I understand your position... my first RASCAR race my only > goal was not to be the one who prompted Eldred to create a muzzle > list. > > Brian Oster > > On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 00:04:37 GMT, "Edward C" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Well for my first full on line oval race I thought I did pretty well. I spun > >once on my own after catching a tire on the "berms", but no yellow and > >carried on. Then under yellow I rear ended Jan trying to find the button for > >fuel, my apologies Jan ( I don't have all the buttons needed for Nascar > >added to the cockpit dash yet) and the last under green when I saw two cars > >approaching (in my mirrors and via F2) so I tried to stay high but the > >second car grazed the wall so I assumed he would stay high and I started to > >go low and we collected each other, my apologies as well. So really not too > >bad of a start, I tried to keep out of the way of the faster guys and not > >cause any yellows... it can only get better.... >

That was my second RASCAR race, and I wound up 5th. There are a few things I want to point out, though: Lap 88: I think it was Neil C going slow into turn 3 as the leaders went through. He pushed up into me and caused me to spear towards the wall and I don't know how the hell I kept it out of there. It didn't call out a yellow. John Simmons was right behind me when this happened. BTW: No blame to Neil C, it just happened. I'm not the sort of guy to get all annoyed about something like that. Lap 95: I get a run on Colin Harris out of 2 and am alongside all the way down the backstretch. Into turn 3 I hook the kerb and push up into him, pushing him into the wall and out of the race. My fault and I do apologise (Could've done with a little more room though :-). Once again, John Simmons was right behind me so he can give his viewpoint on what happened in both incidents. Colin Harris was not completely innocent though - in another incident he pushed up into somebody else and put them into the wall. I was right behind them on that one. I don't want to blame anybody, or make excuses, I just wanted to say we are on the receiving end just as much as we cause them. The only other things that happened during the race to me was on lap 3 when there was a crash in turn 3/4 and I clipped somebody on the way through, did a 360 and continued with no damage, and John Simmons clipped me while under yellow by the pit entrance. That one was my fault as I hit the brakes pretty sharpish to avoid whoever it was in front of me.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted text (23 lines)

> That was my second RASCAR race, and I wound up 5th. There are a few things I > want to point out, though: > > Lap 88: I think it was Neil C going slow into turn 3 as the leaders went > through. He pushed up into me and caused me to spear towards the wall and I > don't know how the hell I kept it out of there. It didn't call out a yellow. > John Simmons was right behind me when this happened. BTW: No blame to Neil > C, it just happened. I'm not the sort of guy to get all annoyed about > something like that. Lap 95: I get a run on > Colin Harris out of 2 and am alongside all the way down the backstretch. > Into turn 3 I hook the kerb and push up into him, pushing him into the wall > and out of the race. My fault and I do apologise (Could've done with a > little more room though :-). Once again, John Simmons was right > behind me so he can give his viewpoint on what happened in both incidents. > Colin Harris was not completely innocent though - in another incident he > pushed up into somebody else and put them into the wall. I was right behind > them on that one. I don't want to blame anybody, or make excuses, I just > wanted to say we are on the receiving end just as much as we cause them. > > The only other things that happened during the race to me was on lap 3 when > there was a crash in turn 3/4 and I clipped somebody on the way through, did > a 360 and continued with no damage, and John Simmons clipped me while under > yellow by the pit entrance.

I think it was someone else. I didn't clip anyone at pit entrance (although I did cut off Mitch on pit entry at the lap 32 yellow with no contact between the two of us). You were warping side-to-side bad enough for me to not want to attempt a pass, especially after warp-wrecked Colin on lap 95. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

In article <5iqT8.90268$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: >Nice race guys! Pretty clean for such a tough track :) > >For some reason, the race didn't score. Edred ? What do you mean it didn't score? How many drivers did you have? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <5iqT8.90268$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: >With 15 - 20 laps to go (or so), there was one car (on the lead lap) that >was MARKEDLY slower than the pack behind in the corners. Slow to the point >that several times I had to actually lock up the tires to stay out of the >back-end of him. The speed difference really was quite major. If he was fighting for position, that's allowable. If he was fighting to stay on the lead lap, that's a little different. Having said that, I'll usually let the faster cars by, if the field has been shuffled by pitstops. Hell, most times I couldn't stay ahead if I *tried*... :( Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Brian Oster" wrote... > Heck it coulda been me. On the second to last restart I > was really braking hard in the turns since I was in heavy > traffic and it seemed like I was on the bottom 3 wide in > serveral situations and was trying to make sure I didn't > push up into the cars on the outside of me. Wasn't you. A group of cars battling for position is always going to be slower and present a problem for passing. Nothing to do but wait for it to settle down and pick one's moment. Perfectly acceptable.

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > If you're faster, it's your job to find the best path > > around the slower car, not his job to let you by. > > > Agreed. I don't have a problem with a slower car trying > to hold position if the car behind is faster. If it is a > lapper and the leaders are clearly faster then, yes, you > should pull out of the way. However, if you are pretty > equal and you are fighting to stay on the lead lap, then > I don't have a problem with that either. Personally if > it is early on in the race I will probably let the faster > car go when racing for position... 20 or 10 laps to go, > you better figure out a way to get around me.

Agree with both of you... however, there is a fine line between making the faster car find a way around and preventing the faster car from finding a way around. Which was crossed in the incident referred to, IMO. Jan. =---

"John Simmons" wrote... > > <snip> > Score where? My LPI changed. Race did indeed show on the list as having ratings enabled and my LPI changed as well. However, the line in chat showing the number of incidents/points/etc.. didn't appear after the race. > > <snip> > > Mention names. If they don't know there's a problem, they > can't fix it. If you're talking about me, bite me. :) #8 DEI Chevy Monte Carlo, driven by Phasor. One Travis Lindt, apparently. > > <snip> > > If you're faster, it's your job to find the best path > around the slower car, not his job to let you by. It's another thing altogether to prevent the faster car from finding a way around. You'll notice neither Larry nor myself repayed the compliment once mr. Lindt found some speed again courtesy of fresh tyres. Our fight was with eachother and it would have been perfectly acceptable for Larry to attempt to hang on for that last lap. Larry decided the game was up, however, which I consider very sporting of him. Not saying Phasor should be punished, banned or whatever, just saying I'm not happy about his actions late in the race. Jan. =---

In article <t0DT8.5019$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted text (17 lines)

> "Brian Oster" wrote... > > > If you're faster, it's your job to find the best path > > > around the slower car, not his job to let you by. > > > > > Agreed. I don't have a problem with a slower car trying > > to hold position if the car behind is faster. If it is a > > lapper and the leaders are clearly faster then, yes, you > > should pull out of the way. However, if you are pretty > > equal and you are fighting to stay on the lead lap, then > > I don't have a problem with that either. Personally if > > it is early on in the race I will probably let the faster > > car go when racing for position... 20 or 10 laps to go, > > you better figure out a way to get around me. > > Agree with both of you... however, there is a fine line between making the > faster car find a way around and preventing the faster car from finding a > way around. Which was crossed in the incident referred to, IMO.

Well, there's always a "what-if" applicable. Suffice it to say trhat when racing for position, it's generally up to the faster car to find a way around the slower car. If a lapped car or someone about to be lapped is slower, GENERALLY, they should allow the other car to pass. Every situation is unique. It's up to all drivers concerned to take the action they view as appropriate and fair. We're just a bunch of guys racing online. There's no money involved, no tangible prestige associated with a win, and we all want to finish all the races we run in without denting up our virtual sheet metal. Hell, we're not even racing for points! It's not that tough to show some fair play, and as soon as everyone realizes this, our races will be plagued much less by cautions. It can still be fun, even if you're not biting and scratching for a top-5 finish. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

"Edward C" wrote...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> Well for my first full on line oval race I thought I > did pretty well. I spun once on my own after catching > a tire on the "berms", but no yellow and carried on. > Then under yellow I rear ended Jan trying to find the > button for fuel, my apologies Jan (I don't have all > the buttons needed for Nascar added to the cockpit > dash yet)

's allright. Things did bunch up as well. > and the last under green when I saw two cars approaching > (in my mirrors and via F2) so I tried to stay high but > the second car grazed the wall so I assumed he would stay > high and I started to go low and we collected each other, > my apologies as well. I had a similar incident with Craig Johnson (grubbat) too. It can't be stressed enough that once one strays onto an unintentional line, one should hold it in order to be predictable with reference to those around you. On the other hand it can also be argued that you, as the slower car, should have held your line. One of those things... > So really not too bad of a start, I tried to keep out of > the way of the faster guys and not cause any yellows... > it can only get better.... Exactly... race as a whole was also very good and you did well. Jan. =---

John has spoken :) -Larry "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (14 lines)

> In article <5iqT8.90268$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The > Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> says... > > Nice race guys! Pretty clean for such a tough track :) > > > > For some reason, the race didn't score. Edred ? > > Score where? My LPI changed. > > > I only have one minor gripe, and I'll do it without mentioning names :) > > Mrention names. If they don't know there's a problem, they can't fix it. > If you're talking about me, bite me. :) > > > With 15 - 20 laps to go (or so), there was one car (on the lead lap)

that > > was MARKEDLY slower than the pack behind in the corners. Slow to thepoint > > that several times I had to actually lock up the tires to stay out ofthe

Quoted text (23 lines)

> > back-end of him. The speed difference really was quite major. > > > > If you're faster, it's your job to find the best path around the slower > car, not his job to let you by. > > > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

Again, the speed difference was enourmous. Not just a little. The car was causing a serious parking lot behind him. This is not being courteous. Everyone always talks about being courteous in these situations, so let's make it so. And it was NOT John. I think the discussion about the situation is far more important than who it was, that's why I didn't mention a name. -Larry "Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.com> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (27 lines)

> On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:40:26 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >In article <5iqT8.90268$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The > >Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> says... > >> Nice race guys! Pretty clean for such a tough track :) > >> > >> For some reason, the race didn't score. Edred ? > > > >Score where? My LPI changed. > > Scored races don't always display an MP message for some reason. I > have noticed it even on the Papy servers but it is always there later > on. > > > > >> I only have one minor gripe, and I'll do it without mentioning names :) > > > >Mrention names. If they don't know there's a problem, they can't fix it. > >If you're talking about me, bite me. :) > > Heck it coulda been me. On the second to last restart I was really > braking hard in the turns since I was in heavy traffic and it seemed > like I was on the bottom 3 wide in serveral situations and was trying > to make sure I didn't push up into the cars on the outside of me. > > > > >> With 15 - 20 laps to go (or so), there was one car (on the lead lap)

that > >> was MARKEDLY slower than the pack behind in the corners. Slow to thepoint > >> that several times I had to actually lock up the tires to stay out ofthe

Quoted text (17 lines)

> >> back-end of him. The speed difference really was quite major. > >> > > > >If you're faster, it's your job to find the best path around the slower > >car, not his job to let you by. > > > > Agreed. I don't have a problem with a slower car trying to hold > position if the car behind is faster. If it is a lapper and the > leaders are clearly faster then, yes, you should pull out of the way. > However, if you are pretty equal and you are fighting to stay on the > lead lap, then I don't have a problem with that either. Personally if > it is early on in the race I will probably let the faster car go when > racing for position... 20 or 10 laps to go, you better figure out a > way to get around me. > > Brian Oster

I guess maybe it did, but it just didn't report it at the end of the race. According to someone here, that happens sometime. -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <5iqT8.90268$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(TheOther

Quoted text (12 lines)

> Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Nice race guys! Pretty clean for such a tough track :) > > > >For some reason, the race didn't score. Edred ? > > What do you mean it didn't score? How many drivers did you have? > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <3RDT8.94887$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> says...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> Again, the speed difference was enourmous. Not just a little. The car was > causing a serious parking lot behind him. > > This is not being courteous. Everyone always talks about being courteous in > these situations, so let's make it so. > > And it was NOT John. > > I think the discussion about the situation is far more important than who it > was, that's why I didn't mention a name. >

Larry, many times, someone can get out of shape in one turn and be back up to speed in the next. If you can tell me preciesly which laps and the car number that was holding everyone up, I can go back and look at the replay to offer a more informed opinion. That late in the race, you're bound to be pinned behind a slower car (slower because they're damaged or on old tires). You have to be *patient* and wait for an opening. You can't count on anyone changing their driving style unless you call them out and clearly identify the problem to them (and try not to piss them off). Further, you should wait until AFTER the race to speak with them about it. Even then, you should still assume that they have no intention of changing their driving style, and you shoud therefore continue to exercise some patience. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

On 30 Jun 2002 12:37:24 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

Quoted text (14 lines)

>In article <5iqT8.90268$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other >Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > >>With 15 - 20 laps to go (or so), there was one car (on the lead lap) that >>was MARKEDLY slower than the pack behind in the corners. Slow to the point >>that several times I had to actually lock up the tires to stay out of the >>back-end of him. The speed difference really was quite major. > >If he was fighting for position, that's allowable. If he was fighting to stay >on the lead lap, that's a little different. Having said that, I'll usually let >the faster cars by, if the field has been shuffled by pitstops. Hell, most >times I couldn't stay ahead if I *tried*... :( > >Eldred

I don't have a problem if he was fighting to stay on the lead lap. Now, if the leader has all ready passed him then he should probably let the other guys go. If I'm a lap down and I find myself in front of the leader, you better believe I am going to race as hard as I can. Brian Oster

As I said, it was several laps, not one lap. This is going a lot farther than I wanted it to. I'm not out to shoot the guy, for crying out loud. It was just a situation I felt should be discussed because it messed up several drivers, and IMHO was not very courteous. On to the next race. -Larry "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <3RDT8.94887$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The > Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> says... > > Again, the speed difference was enourmous. Not just a little. The carwas > > causing a serious parking lot behind him. > > > > This is not being courteous. Everyone always talks about beingcourteous in > > these situations, so let's make it so. > > > > And it was NOT John. > > > > I think the discussion about the situation is far more important thanwho it

Quoted text (35 lines)

> > was, that's why I didn't mention a name. > > > > Larry, many times, someone can get out of shape in one turn and be back > up to speed in the next. If you can tell me preciesly which laps and > the car number that was holding everyone up, I can go back and look at > the replay to offer a more informed opinion. > > That late in the race, you're bound to be pinned behind a slower car > (slower because they're damaged or on old tires). You have to be > *patient* and wait for an opening. > > You can't count on anyone changing their driving style unless you call > them out and clearly identify the problem to them (and try not to piss > them off). Further, you should wait until AFTER the race to speak with > them about it. Even then, you should still assume that they have no > intention of changing their driving style, and you shoud therefore > continue to exercise some patience. > > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

Results are at http://www.umich.edu/~epickett/rascar.html Congrats to zugzug1 ! Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I think it's been a good discussion. I'm not saying yuou should rake a person over the coals (unless he intentionally wrecked you), but letting him know how you feel is worth the effort. Since not many of us publicize our email addresses, this is pretty much the only forum we can use for post-race discussions about how to improve everybody's racing experience. Besides that, if you post something on a newsgroup, you should be prepared for the rest of us to respond until the we feel we've beaten the subject into an almost unrecognizable lump of michordial goo... In article <wmFT8.95272$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> says...

Quoted text (50 lines)

> As I said, it was several laps, not one lap. > > This is going a lot farther than I wanted it to. I'm not out to shoot the > guy, for crying out loud. It was just a situation I felt should be > discussed because it messed up several drivers, and IMHO was not very > courteous. > > On to the next race. > > -Larry > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <3RDT8.94887$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The > > Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> says... > > > Again, the speed difference was enourmous. Not just a little. The car > was > > > causing a serious parking lot behind him. > > > > > > This is not being courteous. Everyone always talks about being > courteous in > > > these situations, so let's make it so. > > > > > > And it was NOT John. > > > > > > I think the discussion about the situation is far more important than > who it > > > was, that's why I didn't mention a name. > > > > > > > Larry, many times, someone can get out of shape in one turn and be back > > up to speed in the next. If you can tell me preciesly which laps and > > the car number that was holding everyone up, I can go back and look at > > the replay to offer a more informed opinion. > > > > That late in the race, you're bound to be pinned behind a slower car > > (slower because they're damaged or on old tires). You have to be > > *patient* and wait for an opening. > > > > You can't count on anyone changing their driving style unless you call > > them out and clearly identify the problem to them (and try not to piss > > them off). Further, you should wait until AFTER the race to speak with > > them about it. Even then, you should still assume that they have no > > intention of changing their driving style, and you shoud therefore > > continue to exercise some patience. > > > > -- > > ========================================================= > > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons

-- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

I scored ok. Must be a per client issue. As for the vegas race... Sorry to Grubatt for out lap 3 incident. I'm normally not that aggressive so early in a race but you were warping badly (side to side) so I made my intentions clear as we came down the backstretch, I clearly had position inside low (below line actually) but eithther you warped down or didnt give me any room at all and we touched. Not passing any blame here just letting you know what I saw. Mitch Mitch "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eUDT8.94899$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (27 lines)

> I guess maybe it did, but it just didn't report it at the end of the race. > According to someone here, that happens sometime. > > -Larry > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <5iqT8.90268$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The > Other > > Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Nice race guys! Pretty clean for such a tough track :) > > > > > >For some reason, the race didn't score. Edred ? > > > > What do you mean it didn't score? How many drivers did you have? > > > > Eldred > > -- > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats > you > > with experience... > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > >

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >Well, there's always a "what-if" applicable. Suffice it to say trhat >when racing for position, it's generally up to the faster car to find a >way around the slower car. If a lapped car or someone about to be >lapped is slower, GENERALLY, they should allow the other car to pass. I had a situation in another league race. I was slower than everyone else on fresh tires. However, I found myself in a situation where I made a pit stop, but no one else did. Once my tires got warmed up, I was even able to keep up with the leader and 2nd place when I got lapped. I was really faster than the 2nd place car, and probably the leader, but I felt weird about trying to pass.(I was a few laps down because of a disco) I pressured the 2nd place guy(he was blocking me), and after about 9 or so laps, he let me go by. What's protocol for a lapper who's actually CAUGHT the leaders? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I think it boils down to if you can really benifit from it or not. If Yellows are on, then you do have a chance to get back on the lead lap and eventually run for the win. It is a complicated situation :) -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, JohnSimmons

Quoted text (8 lines)

> <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Well, there's always a "what-if" applicable. Suffice it to say trhat > >when racing for position, it's generally up to the faster car to find a > >way around the slower car. If a lapped car or someone about to be > >lapped is slower, GENERALLY, they should allow the other car to pass. > > I had a situation in another league race. I was slower than everyone else

on > fresh tires. However, I found myself in a situation where I made a pitstop, > but no one else did. Once my tires got warmed up, I was even able to keepup > with the leader and 2nd place when I got lapped. I was really faster thanthe > 2nd place car, and probably the leader, but I felt weird about trying to > pass.(I was a few laps down because of a disco) > I pressured the 2nd place guy(he was blocking me), and after about 9 or so > laps, he let me go by. What's protocol for a lapper who's actually CAUGHTthe > leaders? > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beatsyou > with experience... > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

IMHO, if the leaders are attentive to the situation, they would have checked to see if you were on the same laps as them by using their interval display. On the one hand, knowing you were at least one lap down, they should have realized that letting you by wouldn't hurt their position, unless there was another leader car close enough to take advantage of them slowing down. Finally, pressing them for position may have been a mistake since you were several laps down, and passing them would not have made much/any diference to your then current situation. It's kinda funny when you realize there's a lot of good reasons to let someone go by, but there's also many compelling reasons to keep them from passing you or slowing to allow it. Like I said earlier, each situation is different, regardless of how similar it might appear on the surface. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted text (20 lines)

> In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Well, there's always a "what-if" applicable. Suffice it to say trhat > >when racing for position, it's generally up to the faster car to find a > >way around the slower car. If a lapped car or someone about to be > >lapped is slower, GENERALLY, they should allow the other car to pass. > > I had a situation in another league race. I was slower than everyone else on > fresh tires. However, I found myself in a situation where I made a pit stop, > but no one else did. Once my tires got warmed up, I was even able to keep up > with the leader and 2nd place when I got lapped. I was really faster than the > 2nd place car, and probably the leader, but I felt weird about trying to > pass.(I was a few laps down because of a disco) > I pressured the 2nd place guy(he was blocking me), and after about 9 or so > laps, he let me go by. What's protocol for a lapper who's actually CAUGHT the > leaders? > > Eldred >

-- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I think it was someone else. I didn't clip anyone at pit entrance > (although I did cut off Mitch on pit entry at the lap 32 yellow with no > contact between the two of us). > > You were warping side-to-side bad enough for me to not want to attempt a > pass, especially after warp-wrecked Colin on lap 95. Okay, sorry, it might not have been you. It was no big deal, I just locked it up to avoid spinning and rejoined the pacing line. The warping thing is pretty strange, because everybody's cars seemed to be steady from my point of view (there were a few who were warping a bit at the back of the field, but everybody else was fine). Maybe it was an upload problem from my modem. I am racing on a 56k internal modem, so I might try an external one, but other than that the only thing I can do is wait for BT to give me an ADSL line. When you finally did get up inside me I let you go though, no point fighting that hard when somebody is up inside of you. I'll download the server replay to get some idea of what everybody was seeing of my car. Nick.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted text (24 lines)

> > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I think it was someone else. I didn't clip anyone at pit entrance > > (although I did cut off Mitch on pit entry at the lap 32 yellow with no > > contact between the two of us). > > > > You were warping side-to-side bad enough for me to not want to attempt a > > pass, especially after warp-wrecked Colin on lap 95. > > Okay, sorry, it might not have been you. It was no big deal, I just locked > it up to avoid spinning and rejoined the pacing line. > > The warping thing is pretty strange, because everybody's cars seemed to be > steady from my point of view (there were a few who were warping a bit at the > back of the field, but everybody else was fine). Maybe it was an upload > problem from my modem. I am racing on a 56k internal modem, so I might try > an external one, but other than that the only thing I can do is wait for BT > to give me an ADSL line. > > When you finally did get up inside me I let you go though, no point fighting > that hard when somebody is up inside of you. I'll download the server replay > to get some idea of what everybody was seeing of my car. >

I can send you mine so you can see what I saw, if you want it. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Hi guys, Let me start off by saying that after reviewing the race several times, I agree that compared to most of the rest of you, I was not leaving as much room for error when being overtaken. That said, I'd like to point out several points in my defence (this all came about on lap 84, restarting from yellow, I was in the lead on older tires, guys behind me had newer tires): -I have not run any other races this year other than 3 RASCAR races (no time). I came 4th at both Pocono and Sears Point and ran very convervatively. I was extremely happy to just finish those races and felt I drove clean and consistently. Nobody had complained about my conduct at that time. I felt I could push a bit now that I had those races under my belt. -I had never turned a lap at Vegas prior to Friday night, at which time I practiced for several hours, most of which was running in traffic against the AI -I was second in the half-hour warmup with a time of 32.925. I felt that I was a fairly fast driver in comparison to the field. -I did not cause a single caution. I got nerfed once by the 7 car (see John Simmons' race recap) but from my replay, it looked like he warped into me and it was not his fault. -taking the green at lap 84 in the lead, I knew I would be passed several times by the end of the race. I figured I had a 5th-10th placed car. -I was very surprised how fast the 27 car came up behind me in the first turn. I got out of the way at the exit of the turn as quick as I could and ran the outside of the corners for 2 laps, allowing 6 cars to go by without incident. -on lap 86, the 98 car was about two carlengths behind me. We went into T1 and he didn't make a move to the inside to show he wanted to pass, so I took the inside line. I guess I misjudged the closure rate, because in the middle of T1 he suddenly came up behind me and braked hard to avoid rear-ending me. It happened too fast for me to do anything about it. -this incident caused the field behind me to slow down. I ran the racing line for two laps until they caught me again. I guess the incident had spooked the field that I wasn't going to give the inside line, and started to try and pass me on the outside. That caught me totally by surprise and I ran several laps in the middle of the track in fear, which I imagine would cause other drivers to think I was blocking or holding them up intentionally. In short, it looks like my inexperience of running in multiplayer traffic at Vegas ruffled some feathers. It surprises me a bit because RAS is basically open to anyone, and I think there will be drivers making a lot more mistakes than myself! Suggestions on how to better handle situations like this much appreciated! It was a really fun race. Thanks, -Phasor

"Phasor" wrote...

Quoted text (16 lines)

> Hi guys, > > Let me start off by saying that after reviewing the race > several times, I agree that compared to most of the rest > of you, I was not leaving as much room for error when > being overtaken. That said, I'd like to point out several > points in my defence (this all came about on lap 84, > restarting from yellow, I was in the lead on older tires, > guys behind me had newer tires): > -I have not run any other races this year other than > 3 RASCAR races (no time). I came 4th at both Pocono and > Sears Point and ran very convervatively. I was extremely > happy to just finish those races and felt I drove clean > and consistently. Nobody had complained about my conduct at > that time. I felt I could push a bit now that I had those > races under my belt.

From a technical point of view your driving was above par at all times, no question. You were/are on top of you game, which made things seem all the more deliberate, if you know what I mean. > -I had never turned a lap at Vegas prior to Friday night, > at which time I practiced for several hours, most of which > was running in traffic against the AI > -I was second in the half-hour warmup with a time of 32.925. > I felt that I was a fairly fast driver in comparison to the > field. Again: you were well prepared and knew the track well. No one is questioning that.

Quoted text (10 lines)

> -I did not cause a single caution. I got nerfed once by the > 7 car (see John Simmons' race recap) but from my replay, it > looked like he warped into me and it was not his fault. > -taking the green at lap 84 in the lead, I knew I would be > passed several times by the end of the race. I figured I had > a 5th-10th placed car. > -I was very surprised how fast the 27 car came up behind me > in the first turn. I got out of the way at the exit of the > turn as quick as I could and ran the outside of the corners > for 2 laps, allowing 6 cars to go by without incident.

This is something that used to surprise me too... a relatively small difference in laptime can equate to a big speed difference at certain "money" sections of the track. Haven re-reviewed the race in the wake of your comments the way you drive the track also has an impact on this. See next section.

Quoted text (7 lines)

> -on lap 86, the 98 car was about two carlengths behind me. > We went into T1 and he didn't make a move to the inside to > show he wanted to pass, so I took the inside line. I guess > I misjudged the closure rate, because in the middle of T1 he > suddenly came up behind me and braked hard to avoid rear- > ending me. It happened too fast for me to do anything about > it.

You seem to have taken to driving fairly deep into the turns then slowing quite sharply to make an apex, while "the rest of us" slow fairly early and try to carry speed to the apex, bleeding it as we approach it. This is, IMO, to you Larry didn't appear to make a move, while to Larry it appeared as if you were going high. You then proceded to enter the turn which to us behind looked like chopping down on Larry who, because he was carrying speed had to brake quite sharply indeed. This put us on our toes for sure. Likewise on fresh tyres when you re-passed me... I had already more or less committed to the turn when you came screaming in on the inside (possibly avoiding me). I was convinced unless I went way up the track we'd have an accident. I still don't see how you managed to hold the line you did. Must be the default <fast> setup was made by someone using the exact same rig as you, having the exact same overtaking style as well.<g> That said, it might be worth your while to experiment with the alternative (from your perspective) style with regard to tyre wear.

Quoted text (8 lines)

> -this incident caused the field behind me to slow down. I ran > the racing line for two laps until they caught me again. I > guess the incident had spooked the field that I wasn't going > to give the inside line, and started to try and pass me on the > outside. That caught me totally by surprise and I ran several > laps in the middle of the track in fear, which I imagine would > cause other drivers to think I was blocking or holding them up > intentionally.

Larry and myself had to yield to Colin Harris and Frederickson, so hostilities were suspended for a while. Look at it from this side... we were able to run about a second faster than you at the time, either through pitstop "strategy" (I use the word loosely ;-)) or managing the tyres better through not running them flat out (i.e. not running the high 32's/low 33's). On worn tyres you were either going into the turns deep and coming down on anyone on the "normal" racing line or hogging the centerline of the track, i.e. pinching the exit for those trying to set up a run underneath out of the even numbered turns. I will accept you were just trying to stay out of trouble, but, effectively, you were blocking the crap out of us. > In short, it looks like my inexperience of running in multiplayer > traffic at Vegas ruffled some feathers. It surprises me a bit > because RAS is basically open to anyone, and I think there will > be drivers making a lot more mistakes than myself! This is indeed the case... I think none of the "more experienced" drivers would consider lashing out at those who show definate signs of being a little out of their depth. You, on the other hand, appeared to show definate signs of extensive multiplayer experience, more specifically: experience at keeping multiple players behind! ;-)) However, I appreciate you coming forward with your side of the story and apologize for my terse remarks earlier. > Suggestions on how to better handle situations like this much > appreciated! It was a really fun race. Keep at it and keep your eyes and ears open. You'll get the hang of it. Jan. =---

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I can send you mine so you can see what I saw, if you want it. Thanks for the offer, but the server replay download is about 98% complete... I'll get in touch if I want it.

If I am one of the leaders and a lapper is faster than me I will almost always let him go. There is no point not to, by holding the lapper up you have nothing to gain and risk getting taken out when he gets frustrated. The only exception would be if I was the leader and the car was only 1 lap down. In that situation, if I know the lapper is a serious contender, I might try and keep him a lap down. If you are the lapper and you are faster, you have every right to try and get one of your laps back. Brian Oster On 30 Jun 2002 19:05:49 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

Quoted text (19 lines)

>In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>Well, there's always a "what-if" applicable. Suffice it to say trhat >>when racing for position, it's generally up to the faster car to find a >>way around the slower car. If a lapped car or someone about to be >>lapped is slower, GENERALLY, they should allow the other car to pass. > >I had a situation in another league race. I was slower than everyone else on >fresh tires. However, I found myself in a situation where I made a pit stop, >but no one else did. Once my tires got warmed up, I was even able to keep up >with the leader and 2nd place when I got lapped. I was really faster than the >2nd place car, and probably the leader, but I felt weird about trying to >pass.(I was a few laps down because of a disco) >I pressured the 2nd place guy(he was blocking me), and after about 9 or so >laps, he let me go by. What's protocol for a lapper who's actually CAUGHT the >leaders? > >Eldred

On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 21:11:20 GMT, "Phasor" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Hi guys, > >-taking the green at lap 84 in the lead, I knew I would be passed several >times by the end of the race. I figured I had a 5th-10th placed car. >-I was very surprised how fast the 27 car came up behind me in the first >turn. I got out of the way at the exit of the turn as quick as I could and >ran the outside of the corners for 2 laps, allowing 6 cars to go by without >incident.

I remember that. You had old tires and I was on brand new ones. I was kinda surprised myselft how fast I pulled up on you in the middle of the corner myself. However, I was actually letting off quite a bit and I knew that the guys behind me had new tires and if I didn't go I was going to lose several spots, so I had to get a little aggressive, but felt like it was a very clean and safe pass. Brian Oster