n2002 racing online on sierra servers is POINTLESS

i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS they hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of my way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked

The following formula has a probability outcome of 99.9% SS race + no password server = catastrophe "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CanV8.43353$[email hidden]... > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS they > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of my > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked > > >

I disagree. I am one of the people who take the time to race right. I love trying to "anticipate" the unanticipated. It has made me a better driver. The ability to react to those who do not know how to drive, or understand that drafting is good, is what makes this sim so addicting. "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CanV8.43353$[email hidden]... > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS they > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of my > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked > > >

Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps, with the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. -Larry "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CanV8.43353$[email hidden]... > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS they > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of my > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked > > >

Yeah, Larry, when I was practicing for tomorrows race, I noticed this myself. The good news is, when a couple 'o guys (3 or 4 is better), get together & run high, you can go right by the low runners. The bad news is, if someone low, intentionally or not, drifts up into you, they just wiggle & go on, while the guy up high eats the wall. Speaking from experience, here :( Not really an issue if you trust the people you race with, but this was one of my rare appearances on an open papy server ;-\ Brian Larry (The Other Larry) <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]...

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> Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It > seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps, with > the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. > > -Larry > > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:CanV8.43353$[email hidden]... > > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS they > > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of my > > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked > > > > > > > > >

Hi, Well...i try to race as carefull as i can...and i almost never cause a wreck..as another poster in this thread says...anticipating is a large part of the game. But what's wrong with hugging the inside? Ermmm...i think that's sorta retorical...i know it's annoying but there seems no other way to defend your position..as in when there's no need to draft... Most of the time drafting is the way to go...but when it isn't how else would you defend your position? Against someone who's halfway decent taking a higher line means loosing yer position..period... The above mostly applies to when the entire field is wrecked...ggg...andit's basically a 1v1 tothe finish. Cheerios On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 16:23:22 -0400, "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote: >i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS they >hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of my >way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked > >

In article <jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: >Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It >seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps, with >the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. I still don't see the problem with running the low line. First, it's the normal racing line - aren't people allowed that? Why should people be made to give up the preferred line? Second, you can still pass on the high side. Well, *I* can't, but I've seen it done...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI 1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS, VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact Officer Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

they block the low line the *whole way around the track*, a train of 10 cars develops, and its almost impossible to pass that big of a draft on the outside. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other > Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It > >seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps, with > >the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. > > I still don't see the problem with running the low line. First, it's the > normal racing line - aren't people allowed that? Why should people be

made to

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> give up the preferred line? Second, you can still pass on the high side. > Well, *I* can't, but I've seen it done...<g> > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI > 1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS, > VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact

Officer > Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

So. This is a suprise? You expect these makeshift races to be clean? Not possible. If you want clean racing race with people whom you know. Alanb "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CanV8.43353$[email hidden]... > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS they > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of my > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked > > >

It's not racing. It's blocking pure and simple. It makes for wreck-fests due to the frustration it causes for everyone behind them. It's not the way it's done in real life, and it shouldn't be the way it is here either. Of course, the last 2 laps are so are fair game, and protecting the low line by blocking is to be expected. NR2002 does not model the outside groove exactly like real racing. It simply doesn't give that 'run' like you see on TV. This makes the entire-race, low-line blocking even worse. The only people who do this are the people who don't understand what racing is all about. -Larry "willem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hi, > > Well...i try to race as carefull as i can...and i almost never cause > a wreck..as another poster in this thread says...anticipating is a > large part of the game. > But what's wrong with hugging the inside? > Ermmm...i think that's sorta retorical...i know it's annoying but > there seems no other way to defend your position..as in when there's > no need to draft... > Most of the time drafting is the way to go...but when it isn't how > else would you defend your position? > Against someone who's halfway decent taking a higher line means > loosing yer position..period... > The above mostly applies to when the entire field is > wrecked...ggg...andit's basically a 1v1 tothe finish. > > Cheerios > > > On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 16:23:22 -0400, "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS they > >hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of my > >way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked > > > > >

The outside line is not modeled well enough for this. You don't get the 'runs' like you see on TV. This makes the low-line, entire race blocking crap even more frustrating. This low-line blocking crap is responsible for great number of the wrecks that occur on Papy servers. -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other > Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It > >seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps, with > >the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. > > I still don't see the problem with running the low line. First, it's the > normal racing line - aren't people allowed that? Why should people be

made to

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> give up the preferred line? Second, you can still pass on the high side. > Well, *I* can't, but I've seen it done...<g> > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI > 1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS, > VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact

Officer > Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

RUN OTHER TRACKS!! lol -- Sean Higgins PRI-- http://www.performance-racing.net/ My Ferrari pics http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/ "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zOsV8.29547$%%[email hidden]... > The outside line is not modeled well enough for this. You don't get the > 'runs' like you see on TV. > > This makes the low-line, entire race blocking crap even more frustrating. > > This low-line blocking crap is responsible for great number of the wrecks > that occur on Papy servers. > > -Larry > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other > > Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It > > >seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps, with > > >the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. > > > > I still don't see the problem with running the low line. First, it's the > > normal racing line - aren't people allowed that? Why should people be > made to > > give up the preferred line? Second, you can still pass on the high side. > > Well, *I* can't, but I've seen it done...<g> > > > > Eldred > > -- > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI > > 1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS, > > VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact > Officer > > Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > >

>"Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote > It's not racing. It's blocking pure and simple. It makes for wreck-fests > due to the frustration it causes for everyone behind them. > > It's not the way it's done in real life, and it shouldn't be the way it is > here either. The high line at SS in NR2002 is the faster line. Really, it is. If you ever race serious leagues, you'll see. Download the VRW replay of their races there, and you'll see. You'll see ;) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

If freezes don't take me out of this RASCARrace, then no one better be blocking the low line in front of me before there's two laps left in the race. David G Fisher "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6NsV8.29546$%%[email hidden]...

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> It's not racing. It's blocking pure and simple. It makes for wreck-fests > due to the frustration it causes for everyone behind them. > > It's not the way it's done in real life, and it shouldn't be the way it is > here either. > > Of course, the last 2 laps are so are fair game, and protecting the low

line

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> by blocking is to be expected. > > NR2002 does not model the outside groove exactly like real racing. It > simply doesn't give that 'run' like you see on TV. This makes the > entire-race, low-line blocking even worse. > > The only people who do this are the people who don't understand what

racing

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> is all about. > > -Larry > > "willem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Hi, > > > > Well...i try to race as carefull as i can...and i almost never cause > > a wreck..as another poster in this thread says...anticipating is a > > large part of the game. > > But what's wrong with hugging the inside? > > Ermmm...i think that's sorta retorical...i know it's annoying but > > there seems no other way to defend your position..as in when there's > > no need to draft... > > Most of the time drafting is the way to go...but when it isn't how > > else would you defend your position? > > Against someone who's halfway decent taking a higher line means > > loosing yer position..period... > > The above mostly applies to when the entire field is > > wrecked...ggg...andit's basically a 1v1 tothe finish. > > > > Cheerios > > > > > > On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 16:23:22 -0400, "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS

they > > >hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out ofmy > > >way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked > > > > > > > > > >

Huh? I've never seen a problem with passing someone on the high side at the plate tracks. It just takes 2 or 3 cars to do it. Personally, I like when most people don't hug the inside line because that just means I can draft my way to the front and hold that line for as long as I want (i.e. until someone drives over me, which usually is the result). Anyway, holding the low line is not blocking. Blocking is when you swerve from side to side to keep a car from passing you. Jason On Sat, 06 Jul 2002 02:42:39 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>The outside line is not modeled well enough for this. You don't get the >'runs' like you see on TV. > >This makes the low-line, entire race blocking crap even more frustrating. > >This low-line blocking crap is responsible for great number of the wrecks >that occur on Papy servers. > >-Larry > >"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> In article <jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other >> Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: >> >> >Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It >> >seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps, with >> >the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. >> >> I still don't see the problem with running the low line. First, it's the >> normal racing line - aren't people allowed that? Why should people be >made to >> give up the preferred line? Second, you can still pass on the high side. >> Well, *I* can't, but I've seen it done...<g> >> >> Eldred >> -- >> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >> Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI >> 1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS, >> VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact >Officer >> Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks >> >> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > >

So if you see somebody right on your bumper at Daytona you just pull over to the right and let them and the rest of the train pass right on by you? Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I don't swerve back and forth at daytona and talladega so people can't pass high or low, but if someone is wanting to pass me there they are going to have to do it high, unless it is a pack of cars lapping. "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]...

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> Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It > seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps, with > the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. > > -Larry > > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:CanV8.43353$[email hidden]... > > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS

they > > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out ofmy > > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked > > > > > > > >

Just watch a real daytona race, then watch a papyrus open daytona race, and you'll see what we are talking about. "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QlvV8.56995$[email hidden]...

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> So if you see somebody right on your bumper at Daytona you just pull over > to the right and let them and the rest of the train pass right on by you? > > Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I don't swerve back and > forth at daytona and talladega so people can't pass high or low, but if > someone is wanting to pass me there they are going to have to do it high, > unless it is a pack of cars lapping. > > "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]... > > Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It > > seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps,

with

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> > the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. > > > > -Larry > > > > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:CanV8.43353$[email hidden]... > > > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS > they > > > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of > my > > > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>I still don't see the problem with running the low line. First, it's the >normal racing line - aren't people allowed that? Why should people be made >to >give up the preferred line? Second, you can still pass on the high side. I agree. The lead car will always seem a little slower due to draft. I spend a lot of time on the brakes....while never lifting of course to stay off the car in front but I won't blame anyone for taking the preferred line. Lapped cars excluded.

I have watched a daytona race. Several in fact. "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kDvV8.46860$[email hidden]... > Just watch a real daytona race, then watch a papyrus open daytona race,and > you'll see what we are talking about. > > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:QlvV8.56995$[email hidden]... > > So if you see somebody right on your bumper at Daytona you just pullover > > to the right and let them and the rest of the train pass right on byyou? > > > > Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I don't swerve back and > > forth at daytona and talladega so people can't pass high or low, but if > > someone is wanting to pass me there they are going to have to do ithigh, > > unless it is a pack of cars lapping. > > > > "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]... > > > Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so.It

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> > > seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps, > with > > > the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:CanV8.43353$[email hidden]... > > > > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS > > they > > > > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out

of

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> > my > > > > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oGvV8.57212$[email hidden]... > I have watched a daytona race. Several in fact. alright you arent getting what i'm saying. there is nothing wrong with running the preferred line, what i'm talking about is when a 7 car line of cars hugs the inside on the straights, in the corners, just runs a 70 foot long string of cars. it is *impossible* to pass on the outside because nobody will go with you, so everyone just gets stuck in a silly train that wont go anywhere. it then becomes impossible to actually run the preferred line.

Eldred wrote: > Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI > 1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS, > VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.ContactOfficer > Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks Whats with the carjacking Eldred? :-( Did I miss something? Tony

Everyone his opinion but i really don't agree with this. I can see yer point...but taking a certain line and staying there is not what i see as blocking.. If i'm hugging the inside you're free to go around...i won't swirve to keep you from trying..i'm just not giving away the inside...holding my line...not blocking.. And i think you don't see it on real daytona cause it's not quite modelled right in 2002 as you say. I bet if in real life the inside line gave the same advantage as it does in NR2002 everyone would be driving there too...and it'd get really boring...as it does in 2002 at times...gggg On Sat, 06 Jul 2002 02:41:06 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>It's not racing. It's blocking pure and simple. It makes for wreck-fests >due to the frustration it causes for everyone behind them. > >It's not the way it's done in real life, and it shouldn't be the way it is >here either. > >Of course, the last 2 laps are so are fair game, and protecting the low line >by blocking is to be expected. > >NR2002 does not model the outside groove exactly like real racing. It >simply doesn't give that 'run' like you see on TV. This makes the >entire-race, low-line blocking even worse. > >The only people who do this are the people who don't understand what racing >is all about. > >-Larry

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In article <jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other > Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It > >seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps, with > >the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. > > I still don't see the problem with running the low line. First, it's the > normal racing line - aren't people allowed that? Why should people be made to > give up the preferred line? Second, you can still pass on the high side. > Well, *I* can't, but I've seen it done...<g> > > Eldred >

It's just bad form Eldred, and promotes the inevitable incident in turn three. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Not trying to be a smart ass, but it seems to me bad form is what the racing on the open servers is all about. "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > In article <jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]>, "Larry \(TheOther > > Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It > > >seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps,with > > >the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. > > > > I still don't see the problem with running the low line. First, it'sthe > > normal racing line - aren't people allowed that? Why should people bemade to > > give up the preferred line? Second, you can still pass on the highside.

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> > Well, *I* can't, but I've seen it done...<g> > > > > Eldred > > > > It's just bad form Eldred, and promotes the inevitable incident in turn > three. > > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

OK, I do see what you are talking about now. I also totally disagree. I spent the last couple of hours on open servers. I was able to pass on the outside, down the backstraight and in turns. Of course there were not seven cars lined up. Usually about two or three. The only thing that sucked was the unpredictable lines people were driving ( i.e. letting it run high in turns then overcorrecting down to the apron ). To do it I had to get as close as I could to the cars below me. Got put into the wall some, couldn't get ahead sometimes, and sometimes I managed to pass. Once I passed two on the outside. And one memorable incident involved me getting a royal blessing out after wrecking several cars. I believe he said "Thanks for givin room @#$ MORON". Also managed to drop my lpi down to a 28. Anyhoo.... "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CgwV8.47098$[email hidden]...

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> > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:oGvV8.57212$[email hidden]... > > I have watched a daytona race. Several in fact. > > alright you arent getting what i'm saying. there is nothing wrong with > running the preferred line, what i'm talking about is when a 7 car line of > cars hugs the inside on the straights, in the corners, just runs a 70 foot > long string of cars. it is *impossible* to pass on the outside because > nobody will go with you, so everyone just gets stuck in a silly train that > wont go anywhere. it then becomes impossible to actually run the preferred > line. > > >

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >It's just bad form Eldred, and promotes the inevitable incident in turn >three. > So are you just supposed to pull over to the right in the turns and let everyone go by??? Sorry, but I don't understand that at ALL... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI 1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS, VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact Officer Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <R%yV8.20979$[email hidden]>, "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Eldred wrote: > >> Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI >> 1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS, >> VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact >Officer >> Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks > >Whats with the carjacking Eldred? :-( > >Did I miss something?

A friend of mine was using my car while I was out of town over the weekend. Whe got carjacked Sunday night(fortunately, she was unhurt). The fucking Detroit police STILL haven't found the damn thing, and it's even equipped with *Lojack*! Keystone Cops, I tell you... :( Like I needed to spend more money that I don't *have* on rental cars and insurance deductibles...argh! Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI 1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS, VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact Officer Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <6NsV8.29546$%%[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: >It's not racing. It's blocking pure and simple. It makes for wreck-fests >due to the frustration it causes for everyone behind them. > >It's not the way it's done in real life, and it shouldn't be the way it is >here either. Are you saying drivers don't try to stay on the low line in the turns in real life? It sure looks that way to ME... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI 1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS, VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact Officer Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I agree completely. "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Huh? I've never seen a problem with passing someone on the high side > at the plate tracks. It just takes 2 or 3 cars to do it. > > Personally, I like when most people don't hug the inside line because > that just means I can draft my way to the front and hold that line for > as long as I want (i.e. until someone drives over me, which usually is > the result). > > Anyway, holding the low line is not blocking. Blocking is when you > swerve from side to side to keep a car from passing you. > > Jason

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <6NsV8.29546$%%[email hidden]>, "Larry \(TheOther > Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >It's not racing. It's blocking pure and simple. It makes forwreck-fests > >due to the frustration it causes for everyone behind them. > > > >It's not the way it's done in real life, and it shouldn't be the way itis > >here either. > > Are you saying drivers don't try to stay on the low line in the turns inreal > life? It sure looks that way to ME... > > Eldred Eldred, I believe they are talking more about the straights, - certainly if you have the low line in a turn, your going to keep it as it is the preferred line. While the plate tracks can offer some very good close racing, it is this reason I don't particular care that much for them. Cars get bunched up, and then folks try and stay in the low line going down the straights rather than moving to the outside. Eventually somone is going to dive on the inside of the line down the straight, and someone will follow, creating an almost helpless situation going into the turn - especially if the guy on the outside, who is on the inside line, doesn't move up and give the line. Myself, I prefer to get settled in at the plate tracks and try and stay where I am at for a while. If most folks would do this, it can be a very exciting race indeed - unfortunately most folks won't be that patient, and usually what results is " the big one". Don Burnette

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >It's just bad form Eldred, and promotes the inevitable incident in turn > >three. > > > > So are you just supposed to pull over to the right in the turns and let > everyone go by??? Sorry, but I don't understand that at ALL... > > Eldred >

What they're talking about is staying on the bottom all the way around the track. That's not racing (at least not in my book). Technically, it also isn't blocking, but it *is* bad form. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Can someone explain to this ignorant Brit what a "plate" track is? Lee

Restrictor plates used, 2 tracks in Nascar where they use these - Daytona and Talladega - reduces the horsepower of the engines drastically by cutting the air intake - basically a Nascar mandated plate goes over the air intake that has smaller holes in it. This keeps the speeds down at the 2 above large tracks, they did this a few years ago to supposedly make these tracks safer, although that can be debatable as the downside is they keep all the cars grouped together, no one can really pull away as long as your in the draft - makes for much more closer racing and at those speeds when something does happen many cars usually get caught up - hence the term " The Big One" when they are referring to the plate tracks. You'll often times hear Nascar drivers complain about running the plate tracks for this very reason. Don Burnette "lee.ward1" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZZDV8.20522$[email hidden]... > Can someone explain to this ignorant Brit what a "plate" track is? > > Lee > > >

> Can someone explain to this ignorant Brit what a "plate" track is? A restrictor plate is fitted restricting the air-flow into the engine, thus reducing horsepower. This is to reduce speeds at the very high speed tracks for safety (and arguably to force closer racing for the fans) It tends to bunch up the cars as drafting becomes of paramount importance and the cars can be run flat out so the disparity of handling is less apparent. This can have a knock on effect that crashes tend to be big as the bunch get together ("the big one"). Tony (Another Brit trying to get to grips with Nascar!)

Thanks to both of you, Tony & Don. Now I understand the problem. Lee "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:k9EV8.21269$[email hidden]...

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> > Can someone explain to this ignorant Brit what a "plate" track is? > > A restrictor plate is fitted restricting the air-flow into the engine, > thus reducing horsepower. This is to reduce speeds at the very high > speed tracks for safety (and arguably to force closer racing for the > fans) > > It tends to bunch up the cars as drafting becomes of paramount > importance and the cars can be run flat out so the disparity of handling > is less apparent. This can have a knock on effect that crashes tend to > be big as the bunch get together ("the big one"). > > Tony > (Another Brit trying to get to grips with Nascar!) > >

Uh. In a real Daytona race, the leader usually holds his line. If you look at the spring race this year, you'll see that for most of the race, whomever was leading kept their car in the ideal line the entire way around the track unless there was a slight gap opened up. Actually, at the end of the Tona races won by Waltrip/Earnhardt last year, the leader did what I would consider blocking...swerving back and forth between the low and high line trying to keep people behind him. Admittedly I've done this at the end of a race to break the draft when people were trying to get a run on me... Anyway, what causes accidents on the plate tracks isn't people staying in the low lane, it's people who don't know how to control their closure rate. If you know how to work the draft, you can slingshot on the outside of someone coming out of 2 and 4 really easily. Jason On Sat, 6 Jul 2002 02:00:10 -0400, "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Just watch a real daytona race, then watch a papyrus open daytona race, and >you'll see what we are talking about. > >"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:QlvV8.56995$[email hidden]... >> So if you see somebody right on your bumper at Daytona you just pull over >> to the right and let them and the rest of the train pass right on by you? >> >> Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I don't swerve back and >> forth at daytona and talladega so people can't pass high or low, but if >> someone is wanting to pass me there they are going to have to do it high, >> unless it is a pack of cars lapping. >> >> "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]... >> > Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It >> > seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps, >with >> > the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. >> > >> > -Larry >> > >> > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> > news:CanV8.43353$[email hidden]... >> > > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS >> they >> > > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of >> my >> > > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> >> >> > > >

I think the swerving back between lanes was more to give one guy the draft, then the other guy, as to not let one guy get a big run on him. -- Sean Higgins PRI-- http://www.performance-racing.net/ My Ferrari pics http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/ "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Uh. > > In a real Daytona race, the leader usually holds his line. If you > look at the spring race this year, you'll see that for most of the > race, whomever was leading kept their car in the ideal line the entire > way around the track unless there was a slight gap opened up. > > Actually, at the end of the Tona races won by Waltrip/Earnhardt last > year, the leader did what I would consider blocking...swerving back > and forth between the low and high line trying to keep people behind > him. > > Admittedly I've done this at the end of a race to break the draft when > people were trying to get a run on me... > > Anyway, what causes accidents on the plate tracks isn't people staying > in the low lane, it's people who don't know how to control their > closure rate. If you know how to work the draft, you can slingshot on > the outside of someone coming out of 2 and 4 really easily. > > Jason > > On Sat, 6 Jul 2002 02:00:10 -0400, "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Just watch a real daytona race, then watch a papyrus open daytona race, and > >you'll see what we are talking about. > > > >"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:QlvV8.56995$[email hidden]... > >> So if you see somebody right on your bumper at Daytona you just pull over > >> to the right and let them and the rest of the train pass right on by you? > >> > >> Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I don't swerve back and > >> forth at daytona and talladega so people can't pass high or low, but if > >> someone is wanting to pass me there they are going to have to do it high, > >> unless it is a pack of cars lapping. > >> > >> "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> news:jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]... > >> > Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It > >> > seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps, > >with > >> > the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. > >> > > >> > -Larry > >> > > >> > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> > news:CanV8.43353$[email hidden]... > >> > > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS > >> they > >> > > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of > >> my > >> > > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >

Yeah, that's actually what I meant. You've phrased it significantly better. :) I did that at the end of the first league race from the spring season. There's something funny about the way you can tease people like that. If you can get the cars behind you to race side by side, it's actually beneficial to give the low line the draft in the turns and then pull the high line behind you on the straight. Then when you get to the turn you just dive down again. Basically just an exagerrated qualifying line. Frustrating as hell for the cars behind you, but that's their problem. :) Jason On Sat, 06 Jul 2002 19:35:09 GMT, "Sean Higgins" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I think the swerving back between lanes was more to give one guy the draft, >then the other guy, as to not let one guy get a big run on him. > >-- > >Sean Higgins > >PRI-- http://www.performance-racing.net/ > >My Ferrari pics >http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/ > >"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> Uh. >> >> In a real Daytona race, the leader usually holds his line. If you >> look at the spring race this year, you'll see that for most of the >> race, whomever was leading kept their car in the ideal line the entire >> way around the track unless there was a slight gap opened up. >> >> Actually, at the end of the Tona races won by Waltrip/Earnhardt last >> year, the leader did what I would consider blocking...swerving back >> and forth between the low and high line trying to keep people behind >> him. >> >> Admittedly I've done this at the end of a race to break the draft when >> people were trying to get a run on me... >> >> Anyway, what causes accidents on the plate tracks isn't people staying >> in the low lane, it's people who don't know how to control their >> closure rate. If you know how to work the draft, you can slingshot on >> the outside of someone coming out of 2 and 4 really easily. >> >> Jason >> >> On Sat, 6 Jul 2002 02:00:10 -0400, "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >Just watch a real daytona race, then watch a papyrus open daytona race, >and >> >you'll see what we are talking about. >> > >> >"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> >news:QlvV8.56995$[email hidden]... >> >> So if you see somebody right on your bumper at Daytona you just pull >over >> >> to the right and let them and the rest of the train pass right on by >you? >> >> >> >> Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I don't swerve back >and >> >> forth at daytona and talladega so people can't pass high or low, but if >> >> someone is wanting to pass me there they are going to have to do it >high, >> >> unless it is a pack of cars lapping. >> >> >> >> "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> >> news:jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]... >> >> > Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. >It >> >> > seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps, >> >with >> >> > the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. >> >> > >> >> > -Larry >> >> > >> >> > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> >> > news:CanV8.43353$[email hidden]... >> >> > > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on >SS >> >> they >> >> > > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out >of >> >> my >> >> > > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >

After reading most of the posts on this topic, I'm going to have to rain on the parade a bit. If you can't pass on the outside you need to do more work on your setup. Obviously, this only applies to open setups. It took a lot of work and thought process on how to get the car to be really fast at Daytona and Talladega. And after much work with my team mates we did discover a setup that would not only pass on the outside with a drafting partner but it will also work without one. Although, this requires many laps and extremely smooth driving to accomplish. I ran a race last Sunday in which many big hitters were running. After a long race there was a breakway pack of 8 cars. I was running on the outside by myself, the other 7 cars were on the inside. Everytime I got beside the leader he or his team mate in 2nd would give me a nice tap into the wall to slow me down. Didn't wreck fortunately. I waited until the last lap to make my charge and was side by side with the leader in the last corner when I was clipped on the extreme LR by the leaders team mate(behind him on the inside). Before he did that I had big run coming off the corner and was carrying better speed than the leader was. I went up into the wall and went from 2nd to 5th. If he hadn't clipped me I may have got first with no drafting partner. I had earlier in the week with 35 to 40 car fields won 3 out of 3 races. One of them was by several thousands of a second on the outside. So it can be done! Pete "> i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS they > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of my > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked

That's my point. In the situations I'm talking about, a car hugs the low line blocking a long line of cars behind him. It's frustrating, and inevitably ends up causing a wreck one way or another. The whole idea of the line going high around him is nice, if it would work out that way. Inevitably if you go high to initiate this, the car behind you goes under you and you are screwed. I guess I'm just a little old school on this deal. It was NEVER like this on TEN or Hawaii. -Larry "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QlvV8.56995$[email hidden]...

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> So if you see somebody right on your bumper at Daytona you just pull over > to the right and let them and the rest of the train pass right on by you? > > Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I don't swerve back and > forth at daytona and talladega so people can't pass high or low, but if > someone is wanting to pass me there they are going to have to do it high, > unless it is a pack of cars lapping. > > "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:jqpV8.29367$%%[email hidden]... > > Yeah, that's something that has developed over the last year or so. It > > seems that it has become in-vogue to block the low line for 40 laps,

with

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> > the excuse "I always leave plenty of room up high". Well, no shit. > > > > -Larry > > > > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:CanV8.43353$[email hidden]... > > > i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS > they > > > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out of > my > > > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Actually for most of the VRW race at Daytona this season you saw 32 cars 2 wide 16 rows deep. Once you get the field stacked like that it's almost impossible for either line to gain an adavantage. Being in the middle of it is frustrating as hell, but that seems pretty realistic. If the field gets spread out at all either lane can work if you get with the right people. Jay Taylor "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6MtV8.13356$[email hidden]... > >"Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote > > It's not racing. It's blocking pure and simple. It makes forwreck-fests > > due to the frustration it causes for everyone behind them. > > > > It's not the way it's done in real life, and it shouldn't be the way itis

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> > here either. > > > The high line at SS in NR2002 is the faster line. Really, it is. If you > ever race serious leagues, you'll see. Download the VRW replay of their > races there, and you'll see. You'll see ;) > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

We agree to disagree then :) -Larry "willem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Everyone his opinion but i really don't agree with this. > I can see yer point...but taking a certain line and staying there is > not what i see as blocking.. > If i'm hugging the inside you're free to go around...i won't swirve to > keep you from trying..i'm just not giving away the inside...holding my > line...not blocking.. > And i think you don't see it on real daytona cause it's not quite > modelled right in 2002 as you say. > I bet if in real life the inside line gave the same advantage as it > does in NR2002 everyone would be driving there too...and it'd get > really boring...as it does in 2002 at times...gggg > > On Sat, 06 Jul 2002 02:41:06 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >It's not racing. It's blocking pure and simple. It makes for

wreck-fests > >due to the frustration it causes for everyone behind them. > > > >It's not the way it's done in real life, and it shouldn't be the way itis > >here either. > > > >Of course, the last 2 laps are so are fair game, and protecting the lowline

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> >by blocking is to be expected. > > > >NR2002 does not model the outside groove exactly like real racing. It > >simply doesn't give that 'run' like you see on TV. This makes the > >entire-race, low-line blocking even worse. > > > >The only people who do this are the people who don't understand what

racing > >is all about. > > > >-Larry >

John, you are absolutely correct. I've seen guys, from the drop of the green flag, get on the yellow line and just sit there for 50 laps, pissing off everyone behind him. That is the situation I am talking about, and it is, unfortunatey, in-vogue on WON right now and is responsible for a great number of the incidents that occur. That and what I will now refer to as the "Jarrett" Manuever. Anyone who saw tonights race knows what I mean. I'm far more disappointed that he didn't outright own up to it than I am he did it in the first place. Although Mike Skinner is probably the worse driver when it comes to that nonsense. -Larry "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > In article <[email hidden]>, JohnSimmons

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> > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >It's just bad form Eldred, and promotes the inevitable incident in turn > > >three. > > > > > > > So are you just supposed to pull over to the right in the turns and let > > everyone go by??? Sorry, but I don't understand that at ALL... > > > > Eldred > > > > What they're talking about is staying on the bottom all the way around > the track. That's not racing (at least not in my book). Technically, > it also isn't blocking, but it *is* bad form. > > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

No, no NO! You misunderstand :) What we are talking about is when a car, typically from the time the green is flown, goes to the yellow line and just sits there, for 40, 50 or whatever laps, and even on the backstraight never uses a normal racing line. -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <6NsV8.29546$%%[email hidden]>, "Larry \(TheOther > Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >It's not racing. It's blocking pure and simple. It makes forwreck-fests > >due to the frustration it causes for everyone behind them. > > > >It's not the way it's done in real life, and it shouldn't be the way itis > >here either. > > Are you saying drivers don't try to stay on the low line in the turns inreal

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> life? It sure looks that way to ME... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI > 1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS, > VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact

Officer > Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Yes, of course you are going to keep the low line in the corners if you have it. I wouldn't expect anything else :) If anyone thought I was proposing you ease up off the line in the corners, I apologize for the confusion. -Larry "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:EwDV8.61398$[email hidden]...

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> > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <6NsV8.29546$%%[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The > Other > > Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >It's not racing. It's blocking pure and simple. It makes for > wreck-fests > > >due to the frustration it causes for everyone behind them. > > > > > >It's not the way it's done in real life, and it shouldn't be the way it > is > > >here either. > > > > Are you saying drivers don't try to stay on the low line in the turns in > real > > life? It sure looks that way to ME... > > > > Eldred > > Eldred, I believe they are talking more about the straights, - certainly

if > you have the low line in a turn, your going to keep it as it is the > preferred line. > While the plate tracks can offer some very good close racing, it is this > reason I don't particular care that much for them. Cars get bunched up,and > then folks try and stay in the low line going down the straights ratherthan

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> moving to the outside. Eventually somone is going to dive on the inside of > the line down the straight, and someone will follow, creating an almost > helpless situation going into the turn - especially if the guy on the > outside, who is on the inside line, doesn't move up and give the line. > Myself, I prefer to get settled in at the plate tracks and try and stay > where I am at for a while. If most folks would do this, it can be a very > exciting race indeed - unfortunately most folks won't be that patient, and > usually what results is " the big one". > > Don Burnette > > >

I think you have missed the point, pete. It isn't about passing in the corners for the most part. It's about boneheads that, from the drop of the green flag, get on the yellow line and never, ever, even for a second, leave it for 30, 40, 50 or whatever laps. Even on the straights! It's frustrating, causes incidents, and is just plain pure bullshit. -Larry "Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FwIV8.14035$[email hidden]... > After reading most of the posts on this topic, I'm going to have torain > on the > parade a bit. > If you can't pass on the outside you need to do more work on yoursetup.

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> Obviously, this only applies to open setups. > It took a lot of work and thought process on how to get the car to be > really fast at Daytona and Talladega. And after much work with my team > mates we did discover a setup that would not only pass on the outside with > a drafting partner but it will also work without one. Although, this > requires > many laps and extremely smooth driving to accomplish. > I ran a race last Sunday in which many big hitters were running. After

a > long race there was a breakway pack of 8 cars. I was running on theoutside > by myself, the other 7 cars were on the inside. Everytime I got beside the > leader he or his team mate in 2nd would give me a nice tap into the wallto > slow me down. Didn't wreck fortunately. > I waited until the last lap to make my charge and was side by sidewith

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> the leader in the last corner when I was clipped on the extreme LR by the > leaders team mate(behind him on the inside). Before he did that I had big > run > coming off the corner and was carrying better speed than the leader was. I > went up into the wall and went from 2nd to 5th. If he hadn't clipped me I > may > have got first with no drafting partner. I had earlier in the week with 35 > to 40 > car fields won 3 out of 3 races. One of them was by several thousands of a > second on the outside. > So it can be done! > > Pete > > "> i joined 4 different races, i got wrecked in every single one. on SS

they > > hug the inside the whole time, its not racing its useless. I go out ofmy > > way to race clean and it just gets me wrecked > > >

Well, drivers like that are asking to get spun if they do it from the start. I will only do it with 10 laps to go and yesterday a driver did manage to go round the outside and pass me. The 3rd place driver gave him some help because I was blocking. Its all about who your friends are in the race. -- __________ Steve Levett "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tyOV8.32044$%%[email hidden]... > John, you are absolutely correct. > > I've seen guys, from the drop of the green flag, get on the yellow line and > just sit there for 50 laps, pissing off everyone behind him. > > That is the situation I am talking about, and it is, unfortunatey, in-vogue > on WON right now and is responsible for a great number of the incidents that > occur. > > That and what I will now refer to as the "Jarrett" Manuever. Anyone who saw > tonights race knows what I mean. > > I'm far more disappointed that he didn't outright own up to it than I am he > did it in the first place. > > Although Mike Skinner is probably the worse driver when it comes to that > nonsense. > > -Larry > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] says... > > > In article <[email hidden]>, John > Simmons > > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > >It's just bad form Eldred, and promotes the inevitable incident in turn > > > >three. > > > > > > > > > > So are you just supposed to pull over to the right in the turns and let > > > everyone go by??? Sorry, but I don't understand that at ALL... > > > > > > Eldred > > > > > > > What they're talking about is staying on the bottom all the way around > > the track. That's not racing (at least not in my book). Technically, > > it also isn't blocking, but it *is* bad form. > > > > -- > > ========================================================= > > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > > RASCAR Roster > > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > > ========================================================= > >

"Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ag97rh$jjqld$[email hidden]... > Well, drivers like that are asking to get spun if they do it from thestart. > I will only do it with 10 laps to go and yesterday a driver did manage togo

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> round the outside and pass me. The 3rd place driver gave him some help > because I was blocking. Its all about who your friends are in the race. > > -- > > __________ > > Steve Levett >

agreed, if a driver is holding the inside line, then gang up on him and draft by on the outside. dave henrie

And that's unfortunately the attitude that the cars behind him take on after a while. Frustration takes over. Someone will say "enough is enough" and do whatever is necessary to get him/her out of the way, and unfortunately half the field gets caught up in it :( -Larry "Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ag97rh$jjqld$[email hidden]... > Well, drivers like that are asking to get spun if they do it from thestart. > I will only do it with 10 laps to go and yesterday a driver did manage togo

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> round the outside and pass me. The 3rd place driver gave him some help > because I was blocking. Its all about who your friends are in the race. > > -- > > __________ > > Steve Levett > > > "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:tyOV8.32044$%%[email hidden]... > > John, you are absolutely correct. > > > > I've seen guys, from the drop of the green flag, get on the yellow line > and > > just sit there for 50 laps, pissing off everyone behind him. > > > > That is the situation I am talking about, and it is, unfortunatey, > in-vogue > > on WON right now and is responsible for a great number of the incidents > that > > occur. > > > > That and what I will now refer to as the "Jarrett" Manuever. Anyone who > saw > > tonights race knows what I mean. > > > > I'm far more disappointed that he didn't outright own up to it than I am > he > > did it in the first place. > > > > Although Mike Skinner is probably the worse driver when it comes to that > > nonsense. > > > > -Larry > > > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > > [email hidden] says... > > > > In article <[email hidden]>,

John

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> > Simmons > > > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > > > >It's just bad form Eldred, and promotes the inevitable incident in > turn > > > > >three. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So are you just supposed to pull over to the right in the turns and > let > > > > everyone go by??? Sorry, but I don't understand that at ALL... > > > > > > > > Eldred > > > > > > > > > > What they're talking about is staying on the bottom all the way around > > > the track. That's not racing (at least not in my book). Technically, > > > it also isn't blocking, but it *is* bad form. > > > > > > -- > > > ========================================================= > > > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > > > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > > > RASCAR Roster > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > > > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > > > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > > > > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > > > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > > > ========================================================= > > > > > >

That takes cooperation, which is non-existent on Papy Servers. That's the second half of the problem. -Larry "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qWZV8.266173$[email hidden]... > > "Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ag97rh$jjqld$[email hidden]... > > Well, drivers like that are asking to get spun if they do it from the > start. > > I will only do it with 10 laps to go and yesterday a driver did manageto

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> go > > round the outside and pass me. The 3rd place driver gave him some help > > because I was blocking. Its all about who your friends are in the race. > > > > -- > > > > __________ > > > > Steve Levett > > > agreed, if a driver is holding the inside line, then gang up on him

and > draft by on the outside. > dave henrie > >

You can pass these people high, unless it is a whole line of cars. If it is, and you are on an open server, they will *rarely* stay in a line for long. It seems to me that completely reckless, pointless passing and inability to hold a line cause the incidents, not a car or group of cars that want to run the low line all the way around the track. "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FMOV8.32054$%%[email hidden]...

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> I think you have missed the point, pete. It isn't about passing in the > corners for the most part. > > It's about boneheads that, from the drop of the green flag, get on the > yellow line and never, ever, even for a second, leave it for 30, 40, 50 or > whatever laps. Even on the straights! > > It's frustrating, causes incidents, and is just plain pure bullshit. > > -Larry >

Then we'll have to agree to disagree . I don't see it as racing. :) -Larry "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gn0W8.56051$[email hidden]... > You can pass these people high, unless it is a whole line of cars. If itis, > and you are on an open server, they will *rarely* stay in a line for long. > It seems to me that completely reckless, pointless passing and inabilityto > hold a line cause the incidents, not a car or group of cars that want torun

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> the low line all the way around the track. > > "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:FMOV8.32054$%%[email hidden]... > > I think you have missed the point, pete. It isn't about passing in the > > corners for the most part. > > > > It's about boneheads that, from the drop of the green flag, get on the > > yellow line and never, ever, even for a second, leave it for 30, 40, 50

or

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> > whatever laps. Even on the straights! > > > > It's frustrating, causes incidents, and is just plain pure bullshit. > > > > -Larry > > > > > >

Agreed. But even if was 100% sure you were right, I would still have to stubbornly insist that I was right, due to the fact that I completely trashed my already subpar LPI trying to learn how to pass and race on the outside. Something else I noticed. If you happen to be in the high line in a turn when the inevitable open race mayhem ensues, it is damn near impossible to find a hole to get through. Nope. You're gonna be ridin' that 180 mph merry-go-round, no doubt about it. "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vF0W8.33452$%%[email hidden]... > Then we'll have to agree to disagree . I don't see it as racing. > > :) > > -Larry >

Agree on Paragraph 2. Being high is not a safe place to be :) -Larry "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NL0W8.56278$[email hidden]...

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> Agreed. But even if was 100% sure you were right, I would still have to > stubbornly insist that I was right, due to the fact that I completely > trashed my already subpar LPI trying to learn how to pass and race on the > outside. > > Something else I noticed. If you happen to be in the high line in a turn > when the inevitable open race mayhem ensues, it is damn near impossible to > find a hole to get through. Nope. You're gonna be ridin' that 180 mph > merry-go-round, no doubt about it. > > "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:vF0W8.33452$%%[email hidden]... > > Then we'll have to agree to disagree . I don't see it as racing. > > > > :) > > > > -Larry > > > > > >

"Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FMOV8.32054$%%[email hidden]...

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> I think you have missed the point, pete. It isn't about passing in the > corners for the most part. > > It's about boneheads that, from the drop of the green flag, get on the > yellow line and never, ever, even for a second, leave it for 30, 40, 50 or > whatever laps. Even on the straights! > > It's frustrating, causes incidents, and is just plain pure bullshit. > > -Larry >

<snip> I just recently purchased the game, so I don't have a lot of experience with it, but if these cars are hugging the line exiting a turn, wouldn't it be possible to pass them with a "free-er" car...drifting up the track - holding more momentum - more speed? Can they possibly hold as much speed while pinching it exiting the turn? If so, I would say that the track modeling isn't quite right. (given the cars were equal) -Scott

Scott Golden wrote: > I just recently purchased the game, so I don't have a lot of experience with > it, but if these cars are hugging the line exiting a turn, wouldn't it be > possible to pass them with a "free-er" car...drifting up the track - holding > more momentum - more speed? Can they possibly hold as much speed while > pinching it exiting the turn? If so, I would say that the track modeling > isn't quite right. (given the cars were equal) Cars can definitely be passed on the outside. FWIW, that's part of the perks for leading. You can take any damn line you please. Let those who wish to pass find their own way around. It *can* be done. If other drivers won't work with you, then your beef is with the other drivers & NOT with the guy in front of you. -- Fester

Larry, with restrictor plates there is no other alternative. If you get the pole and are on the inside where would you go? Now if the he is blocking which unfortunately many of these people do that is a different story. The key is for the people behind to work together and draft a pass. If you watched the race on Sunday the very same scenario took place. No drafting partner no pass. So in this sense the game is realistic. Do I like it no. But like all games you need to devise a strategy to overcome it. Pete "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FMOV8.32054$%%[email hidden]...

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> I think you have missed the point, pete. It isn't about passing in the > corners for the most part. > > It's about boneheads that, from the drop of the green flag, get on the > yellow line and never, ever, even for a second, leave it for 30, 40, 50 or > whatever laps. Even on the straights! > > It's frustrating, causes incidents, and is just plain pure bullshit. > > -Larry

In article <[email hidden]>, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> writes: >Cars can definitely be passed on the outside. FWIW, that's part of the >perks for leading. You can take any damn line you please. Let those >who wish to pass find their own way around. It *can* be done. If other >drivers won't work with you, then your beef is with the other drivers & >NOT with the guy in front of you. Thank you. As I said before, I *know* cars can pass on the outside. It cost me a win a couple weeks ago... :( Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I re-iterate one more time. We are talking about situations where the person does it THE WHOLE RACE. -Larry "Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%LDW8.1230$[email hidden]... > Larry, with restrictor plates there is no other alternative. If youget > the > pole and are on the inside where would you go? Now if the he is blocking > which unfortunately many of these people do that is a different story. > The key is for the people behind to work together and draft a pass. If > you watched the race on Sunday the very same scenario took place. No > drafting partner no pass. So in this sense the game is realistic. Do Ilike

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> it > no. But like all games you need to devise a strategy to overcome it. > > Pete > > "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:FMOV8.32054$%%[email hidden]... > > I think you have missed the point, pete. It isn't about passing in the > > corners for the most part. > > > > It's about boneheads that, from the drop of the green flag, get on the > > yellow line and never, ever, even for a second, leave it for 30, 40, 50

or

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> > whatever laps. Even on the straights! > > > > It's frustrating, causes incidents, and is just plain pure bullshit. > > > > -Larry > > >

Right. Like Mikey did at the Firecracker, er, Pepsi 400 I don't see why people are up in arms about this. If someone holding the low line causes an accident, it's the fault of the people behind him. Same thing if someone holds the ideal line at Bristol, Dover, Darlington, Texas, Atlanta, Watkins Glen, etc. Jason On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 01:16:21 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I re-iterate one more time. > >We are talking about situations where the person does it THE WHOLE RACE. > >-Larry > >"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:%LDW8.1230$[email hidden]... >> Larry, with restrictor plates there is no other alternative. If you >get >> the >> pole and are on the inside where would you go? Now if the he is blocking >> which unfortunately many of these people do that is a different story. >> The key is for the people behind to work together and draft a pass. If >> you watched the race on Sunday the very same scenario took place. No >> drafting partner no pass. So in this sense the game is realistic. Do I >like >> it >> no. But like all games you need to devise a strategy to overcome it. >> >> Pete >> >> "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:FMOV8.32054$%%[email hidden]... >> > I think you have missed the point, pete. It isn't about passing in the >> > corners for the most part. >> > >> > It's about boneheads that, from the drop of the green flag, get on the >> > yellow line and never, ever, even for a second, leave it for 30, 40, 50 >or >> > whatever laps. Even on the straights! >> > >> > It's frustrating, causes incidents, and is just plain pure bullshit. >> > >> > -Larry >> >> >> > >

Check Please! -Larry "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Right. Like Mikey did at the Firecracker, er, Pepsi 400 > > I don't see why people are up in arms about this. If someone holding > the low line causes an accident, it's the fault of the people behind > him. Same thing if someone holds the ideal line at Bristol, Dover, > Darlington, Texas, Atlanta, Watkins Glen, etc. > > Jason > > On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 01:16:21 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I re-iterate one more time. > > > >We are talking about situations where the person does it THE WHOLE RACE. > > > >-Larry > > > >"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:%LDW8.1230$[email hidden]... > >> Larry, with restrictor plates there is no other alternative. If you > >get > >> the > >> pole and are on the inside where would you go? Now if the he is

blocking > >> which unfortunately many of these people do that is a different story. > >> The key is for the people behind to work together and draft a pass.If

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> >> you watched the race on Sunday the very same scenario took place. No > >> drafting partner no pass. So in this sense the game is realistic. Do I > >like > >> it > >> no. But like all games you need to devise a strategy to overcome it. > >> > >> Pete > >> > >> "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> news:FMOV8.32054$%%[email hidden]... > >> > I think you have missed the point, pete. It isn't about passing in

the > >> > corners for the most part. > >> > > >> > It's about boneheads that, from the drop of the green flag, get onthe > >> > yellow line and never, ever, even for a second, leave it for 30, 40,50

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> >or > >> > whatever laps. Even on the straights! > >> > > >> > It's frustrating, causes incidents, and is just plain pure bullshit. > >> > > >> > -Larry > >> > >> > >> > > > > >

Check Please! -Larry

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> Right. Like Mikey did at the Firecracker, er, Pepsi 400 > I don't see why people are up in arms about this. If someone holding > the low line causes an accident, it's the fault of the people behind > him. Same thing if someone holds the ideal line at Bristol, Dover, > Darlington, Texas, Atlanta, Watkins Glen, etc. > Jason > >I re-iterate one more time. > >We are talking about situations where the person does it THE WHOLE RACE. > >-Larry > >> Larry, with restrictor plates there is no other alternative. If you > >get > >> the > >> pole and are on the inside where would you go? Now if the he is

blocking > >> which unfortunately many of these people do that is a different story. > >> The key is for the people behind to work together and draft a pass. If

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> >> you watched the race on Sunday the very same scenario took place. No > >> drafting partner no pass. So in this sense the game is realistic. Do I > >like > >> it > >> no. But like all games you need to devise a strategy to overcome it. > >> Pete > >> > I think you have missed the point, pete. It isn't about passing in

the > >> > corners for the most part. > >> > It's about boneheads that, from the drop of the green flag, get on the > >> > yellow line and never, ever, even for a second, leave it for 30, 40, 50 > >or > >> > whatever laps. Even on the straights! > >> > It's frustrating, causes incidents, and is just plain pure bullshit. > >> > -Larry

In article <F5qX8.59121$%%[email hidden]>, "Larry" <[email hidden]> writes: >I re-iterate one more time. > >We are talking about situations where the person does it THE WHOLE RACE. I still don't have a problem with it...<g> I feel that as long as the driver doesn't obviously *block*, or run into another car as a passing technique, he can drive any damn line he wants... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Larry wrote: > Check Please! > > -Larry Hurry guys! Larry's buying!!! :-) -- Fester

LOL! -Larry "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Larry wrote: > > Check Please! > > > > -Larry > > > Hurry guys! Larry's buying!!! :-) > > -- > > Fester >

LOL! -Larry

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> > Check Please! > > -Larry > Hurry guys! Larry's buying!!! :-) > -- > Fester