Did my MOMO turn my PC to Junk?

I ordered a new Logitech MOMO from www.buy.com ($158 shipped). It arrived today and I eagerly installed it and fired up GPL. The first thing I noticed was the frame rate, it plummeted. Then I did a few laps and found the force feedback effects to be absolutely awful. This is compared to my original LWFF (that I took apart to insert into my other wheel, and well, that project never took off). Now my question for everyone, is this... I'm not sure if it's the wheel that is crap or my PC. You see, I've been putting off a PC upgrade until WSC is released. Obviously my PC is a little old now. It's a Celeron 466, V3, 256mb. The typical old system. Since I've seen a dramatic drop in frame rates, I'm wondering if the PC performance is also affecting the performance of the wheel. Is it time to bite the bullet and upgrade? I still don't want to upgrade until I know something about WSC, so I could set the wheel aside for a few months (if WSC isn't out in demo form by the end of the year, then screw 'em.). But I don't want to set this thing aside if the wheel just isn't as great as it has been touted. For those of you who have owned the original LWFF and the MOMO, along with a modern PC, what do you think of the MOMO?

"Andrew Sawczyn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > Now my question for everyone, is this... I'm not sure if it's the wheel > that is crap or my PC. It's your PC, spend $50 and upgrade. > For those of you who have owned the original LWFF and the MOMO, along > with a modern PC, what do you think of the MOMO? It's awesome on a decent computer. Pick

Andrew, It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive. As a USB device (like yer LWFF), it shouldn't be sucking any more CPU cycles outta yer system than yer old setup. OTOH, it is a different s/w environment. Make sure you've got the latest s/w d/l's from Logitech and the Wingman Team...and any other controller applets you think might help (DXTweak, TM Pro, etc.). We should hear something abt. WSC within a few days. If it is ever released, it likely won't demand the latest h/w, because it has been in dev't so long that most of the chalk marks on the floor (the h/w params) were prolly laid down anticipating a 1.3-Gig Athlon and a GeForce 3. IOW, it ain't gonna be no Unreal Tournament 2003. And yes, the MOMO is a great wheel (it's the pedals that suck 55-in. of Hg), altho Alison Hine was over the other day and complained the FF f/x didn't feel a *thing* like her beloved red-rim, ball-bearing Logi. --Steve "Andrew Sawczyn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d2baced$[email hidden]...

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> I ordered a new Logitech MOMO from www.buy.com ($158 shipped). It > arrived today and I eagerly installed it and fired up GPL. The first > thing I noticed was the frame rate, it plummeted. Then I did a few laps > and found the force feedback effects to be absolutely awful. This is > compared to my original LWFF (that I took apart to insert into my other > wheel, and well, that project never took off). > > Now my question for everyone, is this... I'm not sure if it's the wheel > that is crap or my PC. You see, I've been putting off a PC upgrade until > WSC is released. Obviously my PC is a little old now. It's a Celeron > 466, V3, 256mb. The typical old system. Since I've seen a dramatic drop > in frame rates, I'm wondering if the PC performance is also affecting > the performance of the wheel. Is it time to bite the bullet and upgrade? > > I still don't want to upgrade until I know something about WSC, so I > could set the wheel aside for a few months (if WSC isn't out in demo > form by the end of the year, then screw 'em.). But I don't want to set > this thing aside if the wheel just isn't as great as it has been touted. > > For those of you who have owned the original LWFF and the MOMO, along > with a modern PC, what do you think of the MOMO? >

If you are running Win95 or Win98 1st Edition, and your Momo is USB, you are probably experiencing the effects of the 1st generation USB Drivers. Win98SE on up have much better USB Drivers and are less resource intensive. Just a thought. - Isotrip� "Andrew Sawczyn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d2baced$[email hidden]...

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> I ordered a new Logitech MOMO from www.buy.com ($158 shipped). It > arrived today and I eagerly installed it and fired up GPL. The first > thing I noticed was the frame rate, it plummeted. Then I did a few laps > and found the force feedback effects to be absolutely awful. This is > compared to my original LWFF (that I took apart to insert into my other > wheel, and well, that project never took off). > > Now my question for everyone, is this... I'm not sure if it's the wheel > that is crap or my PC. You see, I've been putting off a PC upgrade until > WSC is released. Obviously my PC is a little old now. It's a Celeron > 466, V3, 256mb. The typical old system. Since I've seen a dramatic drop > in frame rates, I'm wondering if the PC performance is also affecting > the performance of the wheel. Is it time to bite the bullet and upgrade? > > I still don't want to upgrade until I know something about WSC, so I > could set the wheel aside for a few months (if WSC isn't out in demo > form by the end of the year, then screw 'em.). But I don't want to set > this thing aside if the wheel just isn't as great as it has been touted. > > For those of you who have owned the original LWFF and the MOMO, along > with a modern PC, what do you think of the MOMO? >

<< IOW, it ain't gonna be no Unreal Tournament 2003.>> I meant it ain't gonna be no DOOM 3. "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fpUW8.109356$[email hidden]... > Andrew, > > It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive. Asa

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> USB device (like yer LWFF), it shouldn't be sucking any more CPU cycles > outta yer system than yer old setup. OTOH, it is a different s/w > environment. Make sure you've got the latest s/w d/l's from Logitech and > the Wingman Team...and any other controller applets you think might help > (DXTweak, TM Pro, etc.). > > We should hear something abt. WSC within a few days. If it is ever > released, it likely won't demand the latest h/w, because it has been in > dev't so long that most of the chalk marks on the floor (the h/w params) > were prolly laid down anticipating a 1.3-Gig Athlon and a GeForce 3. IOW, > it ain't gonna be no Unreal Tournament 2003. > > And yes, the MOMO is a great wheel (it's the pedals that suck 55-in. of

Hg),

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> altho Alison Hine was over the other day and complained the FF f/x didn't > feel a *thing* like her beloved red-rim, ball-bearing Logi. > > --Steve > > "Andrew Sawczyn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3d2baced$[email hidden]... > > I ordered a new Logitech MOMO from www.buy.com ($158 shipped). It > > arrived today and I eagerly installed it and fired up GPL. The first > > thing I noticed was the frame rate, it plummeted. Then I did a few laps > > and found the force feedback effects to be absolutely awful. This is > > compared to my original LWFF (that I took apart to insert into my other > > wheel, and well, that project never took off). > > > > Now my question for everyone, is this... I'm not sure if it's the wheel > > that is crap or my PC. You see, I've been putting off a PC upgrade until > > WSC is released. Obviously my PC is a little old now. It's a Celeron > > 466, V3, 256mb. The typical old system. Since I've seen a dramatic drop > > in frame rates, I'm wondering if the PC performance is also affecting > > the performance of the wheel. Is it time to bite the bullet and upgrade? > > > > I still don't want to upgrade until I know something about WSC, so I > > could set the wheel aside for a few months (if WSC isn't out in demo > > form by the end of the year, then screw 'em.). But I don't want to set > > this thing aside if the wheel just isn't as great as it has been touted. > > > > For those of you who have owned the original LWFF and the MOMO, along > > with a modern PC, what do you think of the MOMO? > > > >

Steve Smith wrote:

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> Andrew, > > It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive. As a > USB device (like yer LWFF), it shouldn't be sucking any more CPU cycles > outta yer system than yer old setup. OTOH, it is a different s/w > environment. Make sure you've got the latest s/w d/l's from Logitech and > the Wingman Team...and any other controller applets you think might help > (DXTweak, TM Pro, etc.).

My LWFF was one of the original gameport versions and it was running on Win 98. I'm running XP now, and I think that little bit of extra overhead is contributing to the problems. I am running the latest and greatest of everything, including the beta drivers from the Wingman Team. > And yes, the MOMO is a great wheel (it's the pedals that suck 55-in. of Hg), > altho Alison Hine was over the other day and complained the FF f/x didn't > feel a *thing* like her beloved red-rim, ball-bearing Logi. Speaking of Alison. I went back to my original LWFF settings for GPL, the ones I found on Alisons' site. These seem to work much better and are closer to what I remember from the original wheel. The settings I found on this forum that were created specifically for the MOMO were not good at all. Too over powering. I can still feel the gears, but the wheel reacts better to what's happening on the track with Alisons' settings. Thanks for the reply. I guess I'll know after this weekend (post Goodwood) when I'll be upgrading my PC. I'll have to kick the "maybe there's something better on the horizon" thought process and buy something now.

>Alison Hine was over the other day and complained the FF f/x didn't > feel a *thing* like her beloved red-rim, ball-bearing Logi. > > --Steve Why don't you let her borrow it for a few days and see if she can come up with the core.ini settings for it. :) I thought her settings for the cable driven LWFF were great, but I have not been able to get the MOMO to feel the same. My guess is the main reason is the differance between the cable drive and gear drive setups. MadDAWG

"MadDAWG" wrote...

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> > <snip> > Why don't you let her borrow it for a few days and see if > she can come up with the core.ini settings for it. :) I > thought her settings for the cable driven LWFF were great, > but I have not been able to get the MOMO to feel the same. > My guess is the main reason is the differance between the > cable drive and gear drive setups.

Turn up the latency to the 30ms range. Jan. =---

Actually, Alison confidently dialed in the settings from her beloved LWFF, and made a sour face as soon as she tried it, so I gather the MOMO doesn't feel anything like the LWFF with the same settings in DX and core.ini. I thought the diff I was feeling was mechanical (between the innards of the LWFF and the MOMO), not electrical (the degree of torque, latency, blah-blah), but I must admit I'm numb to what Alison was talking abt. There are too many variables, jumping back & forth from the game to Control Panel, so I guess I'll just live with what I've got (until I get a chance to tune the basics with the more-up-to-date F1 2002). "Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Steve Smith wrote: > > Andrew, > > > > It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive.As a > > USB device (like yer LWFF), it shouldn't be sucking any more CPU cycles > > outta yer system than yer old setup. OTOH, it is a different s/w > > environment. Make sure you've got the latest s/w d/l's from Logitechand

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> > the Wingman Team...and any other controller applets you think might help > > (DXTweak, TM Pro, etc.). > > My LWFF was one of the original gameport versions and it was running on > Win 98. I'm running XP now, and I think that little bit of extra > overhead is contributing to the problems. I am running the latest and > greatest of everything, including the beta drivers from the Wingman Team. > > > And yes, the MOMO is a great wheel (it's the pedals that suck 55-in. of

Hg), > > altho Alison Hine was over the other day and complained the FF f/xdidn't

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> > feel a *thing* like her beloved red-rim, ball-bearing Logi. > > Speaking of Alison. I went back to my original LWFF settings for GPL, > the ones I found on Alisons' site. These seem to work much better and > are closer to what I remember from the original wheel. The settings I > found on this forum that were created specifically for the MOMO were not > good at all. Too over powering. I can still feel the gears, but the > wheel reacts better to what's happening on the track with Alisons'

settings. > > Thanks for the reply. I guess I'll know after this weekend (post > Goodwood) when I'll be upgrading my PC. I'll have to kick the "maybe > there's something better on the horizon" thought process and buy > something now. >

That's what I thought, but from Alison's reaction, I gather it goes deeper than that. (P.S. I'd be happy to loan her my MOMO...but she's 400 miles away, so we don't get to visit as often as we'd like.) "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> >Alison Hine was over the other day and complained the FF f/x didn't > > feel a *thing* like her beloved red-rim, ball-bearing Logi. > > > > --Steve > > Why don't you let her borrow it for a few days and see if she can come up > with the core.ini settings for it. :) I thought her settings for the

cable > driven LWFF were great, but I have not been able to get the MOMO to feelthe > same. My guess is the main reason is the differance between the cabledrive > and gear drive setups. > > MadDAWG > >

Jan, What are your other settings (& basic system info), please? --Steve "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5tXW8.1689$[email hidden]...

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> "MadDAWG" wrote... > > > <snip> > > Why don't you let her borrow it for a few days and see if > > she can come up with the core.ini settings for it. :) I > > thought her settings for the cable driven LWFF were great, > > but I have not been able to get the MOMO to feel the same. > > My guess is the main reason is the differance between the > > cable drive and gear drive setups. > > Turn up the latency to the 30ms range. > > Jan. > =--- > > >

"Steve Smith" wrote... > Jan, > > What are your other settings (& basic system info), please? That's sort of the point, Steve, once I followed the advise to crank up the latency I found I could adapt the other settings to taste. It would appear miss Hine is getting a little conservative nowadays. To me the MOMO is more responsive and "crisper" than even a ball bearing equipped LWFF. That said, I found it does need a bit of a "break-in" period. It definately smooths out with use. I think the comforting feel from the LWFF stems from the "give" which is present in the steel cables and therefore switching to the more direct gear drive is a bit of a shock. Once over the initial shock though, one finds one's even more connected to the sim than before. IMO this effect is more pronounced in N2k2 than GPL. Anyhow, for reference: Athlon XP2000+, 512Mb DDR Ram, GF3 Ti200, Win98se, DirectX8.1, WingMan 4.11 drivers. I use the standard setup of the overall strenght setting at 100%, other sliders at 0% in Gaming Options. GPL core.ini [ Hack ] steer_ratio = 1 ; Enable low speed ratio override [ Joy ] allow_force_feedback = 1 ; Use FF if device has it force_feedback_damping = 70 ; force feedback damping coefficient force_feedback_latency = 0.030000 ; force feedback latency (secs) max_steering_torque = 298.000000 ; steering torque in N*in giving max device force 100% steering linearity in the game and I usually use a 16:1 steering ratio. N2k2 Strenght : 65% Damping : 37% Latency : 30ms Steering Linearity : 100% Jan. =---

Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> > [ Hack ] > steer_ratio = 1 ; Enable low speed ratio override > > [ Joy ] > allow_force_feedback = 1 ; Use FF if device has it > force_feedback_damping = 70 ; force feedback damping coefficient > force_feedback_latency = 0.030000 ; force feedback latency (secs) > max_steering_torque = 298.000000 ; steering torque in N*in giving max > device force > > 100% steering linearity in the game and I usually use a 16:1 steering ratio.

Those don't feel too bad. The latency seems a bit off. I still prefer Alisons' 0.020000, but I'm cruising around at a blazing 15fps so my opinion really means nothing in that regard. I've forgotten how much fun it is to drive with a FF wheel. I'm using my top-hinged, steel pedals from SRC and GPL is a blast to drive!

On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:56:11 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Andrew, > >It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive. As a Well.. a year or so ago I bought a GF2 GTS card, and when I installed it I had 36fps in GPL at the start, at the back of the grid. But a while after that I noticed some major drops in fps while racing. I thought it was caused by some updates, perhaps some of those 16bit cars I recently had installed. For testing I installed an older backup of GPL, but still had the fps drops. Since then I tried a lot, different drivers, windows memory settings, but the problem still remains. Yesterday I read a post on Legends Central from a guy who had the same problem, and wondered if it could be caused by his Momo. I never though about the momo software being the possible cause in the fps drops, but I did buy the momo a while after my GF2 card, so it -could- be the case.. I will uninstall the momo drivers and software when I get home and test if the drop in fps is gone in GPL.. will post the results here. Andre

Thx, Jan - I'll try yer settings! "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Ps1X8.2352$[email hidden]... > "Steve Smith" wrote... > > Jan, > > > > What are your other settings (& basic system info), please? > > That's sort of the point, Steve, once I followed the advise to crank upthe > latency I found I could adapt the other settings to taste. > > It would appear miss Hine is getting a little conservative nowadays. To me > the MOMO is more responsive and "crisper" than even a ball bearingequipped > LWFF. That said, I found it does need a bit of a "break-in" period. It > definately smooths out with use. > > I think the comforting feel from the LWFF stems from the "give" which is > present in the steel cables and therefore switching to the more directgear

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> drive is a bit of a shock. Once over the initial shock though, one finds > one's even more connected to the sim than before. IMO this effect is more > pronounced in N2k2 than GPL. > > Anyhow, for reference: > > Athlon XP2000+, 512Mb DDR Ram, GF3 Ti200, Win98se, DirectX8.1, WingMan

4.11

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> drivers. > > I use the standard setup of the overall strenght setting at 100%, other > sliders at 0% in Gaming Options. > > GPL core.ini > > [ Hack ] > steer_ratio = 1 ; Enable low speed ratio override > > [ Joy ] > allow_force_feedback = 1 ; Use FF if device has it > force_feedback_damping = 70 ; force feedback damping coefficient > force_feedback_latency = 0.030000 ; force feedback latency (secs) > max_steering_torque = 298.000000 ; steering torque in N*in giving max > device force > > 100% steering linearity in the game and I usually use a 16:1 steering

ratio.

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> > N2k2 > > Strenght : 65% > Damping : 37% > Latency : 30ms > Steering Linearity : 100% > > Jan. > =--- > > > > > >

Alison's point abt. latency, if I understood her right (and I often don't) is that the mis-labeled "latency" is actually a prediction algorithm, neccessary in the days of Pentium 2-400s when GPL was being developed, but unneccessary now with modern blitzkrieg CPUs. Thus, the faster yer CPU, the LESS "latency" you need. (In my experience, higher "latency" settings result in higher kickback torque thru the steering wheel.) "Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d2cb927$[email hidden]...

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> Jan Verschueren wrote: > > > > [ Hack ] > > steer_ratio = 1 ; Enable low speed ratio override > > > > [ Joy ] > > allow_force_feedback = 1 ; Use FF if device has it > > force_feedback_damping = 70 ; force feedback damping

coefficient > > force_feedback_latency = 0.030000 ; force feedback latency (secs) > > max_steering_torque = 298.000000 ; steering torque in N*in givingmax > > device force > > > > 100% steering linearity in the game and I usually use a 16:1 steeringratio.

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> > Those don't feel too bad. The latency seems a bit off. I still prefer > Alisons' 0.020000, but I'm cruising around at a blazing 15fps so my > opinion really means nothing in that regard. > > I've forgotten how much fun it is to drive with a FF wheel. I'm using > my top-hinged, steel pedals from SRC and GPL is a blast to drive! > >

Thx, Andre - that would be interesting. (I haven't noticed any significant fps drops, but I have noticed some hesitation/stuttering when I leave the pits since installing the MOMO. I have been attributing this to one of the worst WinME installs I've ever done - I thought the OS was AWOL "Update" hunting again.) "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:56:11 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Andrew, > > > >It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive. Asa

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> > Well.. a year or so ago I bought a GF2 GTS card, and when I installed > it I had 36fps in GPL at the start, at the back of the grid. But a > while after that I noticed some major drops in fps while racing. > I thought it was caused by some updates, perhaps some of those 16bit > cars I recently had installed. For testing I installed an older backup > of GPL, but still had the fps drops. > > Since then I tried a lot, different drivers, windows memory settings, > but the problem still remains. Yesterday I read a post on Legends > Central from a guy who had the same problem, and wondered if it could > be caused by his Momo. I never though about the momo software being > the possible cause in the fps drops, but I did buy the momo a while > after my GF2 card, so it -could- be the case.. > > I will uninstall the momo drivers and software when I get home and > test if the drop in fps is gone in GPL.. will post the results here. > > Andre

"Steve Smith" wrote...

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> Alison's point abt. latency, if I understood her right (and I often > don't) is that the mis-labeled "latency" is actually a prediction > algorithm, neccessary in the days of Pentium 2-400s when GPL > was being developed, but unneccessary now with modern > blitzkrieg CPUs. Thus, the faster yer CPU, the LESS "latency" > you need. (In my experience, higher "latency" settings > result in higher kickback torque thru the steering wheel.)

Eh... I think you must have misunderstood Alison is this respect Steve. The latency setting is indeed a measure of the amount of prediction, but not to compensate for lack of CPU power AFAIK. It takes a small amount of time for the command to go to and for the force feedback torque to build in the wheel and it's this delay which is compensated for in the algorythm. I know the LWFF worked well with a low setting, but the MOMO will produce spikes and dropouts (FF disappearing on big corrections) at the same settings. 30ms may sound like a long time when first encountered, but, in GPL's case, it's only about a frame's worth of prediction so it doesn't really interfere with gameplay in my experience. Jan. =---

Jan, Thx for the heds-up. I'm trying 30 now and it feels fine (that is, better than 20 or 40, which I also tried). Alison tried zero and hated it. As you say, strange artifacts (kickback in the middle of a long straight) and torque spikes. --Steve "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WseX8.3048$[email hidden]...

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> "Steve Smith" wrote... > > Alison's point abt. latency, if I understood her right (and I often > > don't) is that the mis-labeled "latency" is actually a prediction > > algorithm, neccessary in the days of Pentium 2-400s when GPL > > was being developed, but unneccessary now with modern > > blitzkrieg CPUs. Thus, the faster yer CPU, the LESS "latency" > > you need. (In my experience, higher "latency" settings > > result in higher kickback torque thru the steering wheel.) > > Eh... I think you must have misunderstood Alison is this respect Steve.

The > latency setting is indeed a measure of the amount of prediction, but notto

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> compensate for lack of CPU power AFAIK. > > It takes a small amount of time for the command to go to and for the force > feedback torque to build in the wheel and it's this delay which is > compensated for in the algorythm. I know the LWFF worked well with a low > setting, but the MOMO will produce spikes and dropouts (FF disappearing on > big corrections) at the same settings. 30ms may sound like a long time

when

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> first encountered, but, in GPL's case, it's only about a frame's worth of > prediction so it doesn't really interfere with gameplay in my experience. > > Jan. > =--- > >

Steve Smith wrote:

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> Andrew, > > It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive. As a > USB device (like yer LWFF), it shouldn't be sucking any more CPU cycles > outta yer system than yer old setup. OTOH, it is a different s/w > environment. Make sure you've got the latest s/w d/l's from Logitech and > the Wingman Team...and any other controller applets you think might help > (DXTweak, TM Pro, etc.).

Brief follow up. Windows went haywire today with my mouse jumping all over the screen. I noticed that while I have my MOMO plugged in, my CPU utilization was pegged at 20%. Thus my sharp decrease in framerates in GPL. After an hour of screaming and kicking, I was able to get my CPU usage down below 6%. It still spikes when I use my mouse (USB Trackball, Microsoft, no further comments necessary) but overall it's much smoother. My frame rates in GPL have gone from the teens to the upper 20's. Still not the consisten 30's I had before, but much better. And the wheel is so much more responsive.

Glad I saw this thread, went and downloaded the current beta drivers - 4.20, and can tell it made a difference for me , especially with the mechanical centering of the wheel. I am probably imagining this, but the force feedback seems better to me as well. Don Burnette "Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d2e48ef$[email hidden]... > Steve Smith wrote: > > Andrew, > > > > It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive.As a > > USB device (like yer LWFF), it shouldn't be sucking any more CPU cycles > > outta yer system than yer old setup. OTOH, it is a different s/w > > environment. Make sure you've got the latest s/w d/l's from Logitechand

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> > the Wingman Team...and any other controller applets you think might help > > (DXTweak, TM Pro, etc.). > > Brief follow up. Windows went haywire today with my mouse jumping all > over the screen. I noticed that while I have my MOMO plugged in, my CPU > utilization was pegged at 20%. Thus my sharp decrease in framerates in > GPL. After an hour of screaming and kicking, I was able to get my CPU > usage down below 6%. It still spikes when I use my mouse (USB > Trackball, Microsoft, no further comments necessary) but overall it's > much smoother. My frame rates in GPL have gone from the teens to the > upper 20's. Still not the consisten 30's I had before, but much better. > And the wheel is so much more responsive. > >

Two Qs: 1. Why don't you try a different mouse? 2. What magic (apart from the kicking & the screaming) did you apply to reduce yer CPU occupancy? --Steve "Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d2e48ef$[email hidden]... > Steve Smith wrote: > > Andrew, > > > > It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive.As a > > USB device (like yer LWFF), it shouldn't be sucking any more CPU cycles > > outta yer system than yer old setup. OTOH, it is a different s/w > > environment. Make sure you've got the latest s/w d/l's from Logitechand

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> > the Wingman Team...and any other controller applets you think might help > > (DXTweak, TM Pro, etc.). > > Brief follow up. Windows went haywire today with my mouse jumping all > over the screen. I noticed that while I have my MOMO plugged in, my CPU > utilization was pegged at 20%. Thus my sharp decrease in framerates in > GPL. After an hour of screaming and kicking, I was able to get my CPU > usage down below 6%. It still spikes when I use my mouse (USB > Trackball, Microsoft, no further comments necessary) but overall it's > much smoother. My frame rates in GPL have gone from the teens to the > upper 20's. Still not the consisten 30's I had before, but much better. > And the wheel is so much more responsive. > >

I have never understood the purpose in a USB mouse or keyboard, all of them I have ever seen causes problems with CPU Utilization. I think they make computers with Keybord and mouse ports for a reason, then again, I tend to not mess with a working system. SLG Internet User <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Steve Smith wrote: >> Andrew, >> >> It seems extremely unlikely that the MOMO caused yer fps to nosedive. As a >> USB device (like yer LWFF), it shouldn't be sucking any more CPU cycles >> outta yer system than yer old setup. OTOH, it is a different s/w >> environment. Make sure you've got the latest s/w d/l's from Logitech and >> the Wingman Team...and any other controller applets you think might help >> (DXTweak, TM Pro, etc.). > >Brief follow up. Windows went haywire today with my mouse jumping all >over the screen. I noticed that while I have my MOMO plugged in, my CPU >utilization was pegged at 20%. Thus my sharp decrease in framerates in >GPL. After an hour of screaming and kicking, I was able to get my CPU >usage down below 6%. It still spikes when I use my mouse (USB >Trackball, Microsoft, no further comments necessary) but overall it's >much smoother. My frame rates in GPL have gone from the teens to the >upper 20's. Still not the consisten 30's I had before, but much better. > And the wheel is so much more responsive. > >

(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers)

On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:11:42 -0400, Internet User <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Brief follow up. Windows went haywire today with my mouse jumping all >over the screen. I noticed that while I have my MOMO plugged in, my CPU >utilization was pegged at 20%. Thus my sharp decrease in framerates in >GPL. After an hour of screaming and kicking, I was able to get my CPU >usage down below 6%. It still spikes when I use my mouse (USB >Trackball, Microsoft, no further comments necessary) but overall it's >much smoother. My frame rates in GPL have gone from the teens to the >upper 20's. Still not the consisten 30's I had before, but much better. > And the wheel is so much more responsive.

How do you check the CPU usage, and what did you do to drop the % of CPU usage? Andre

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:11:42 -0400, Internet User <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > How do you check the CPU usage, and what did you do to drop the % of > CPU usage? > > Andre

I was checking through the Windows XP task manager. I'm not sure what I did to drop the cpu usage, but here are the steps I took (1) Disconnected all my USB devices. (1) Uninstalled all of my USB devices from the control panel. Including mice, game controllers, and the USB hubs themselves. (2) Rebooted so that Windows would redetect my USB hubs. I have a hub on my motherboard and one on the base of my monitor. (3) Reinstalled the wingman drivers. (4) Plugged the MOMO and trackball into motherboard USB ports. The MOMO was previously on the external hub. That's it. I didn't do anything that should have solved the cpu usage problem. I still don't know why the wheel would be eating cpu cycles when it's not in use, but it is. I've recently moved the trackball from the USB port, to the PS2 port. It's a new trackball, and I didn't even realize that it had a PS2 adapter. The MOMO still eats cpu cycles with out any USB devices plugged in, so it's not a device contention issue. I have an old motherboard which I believe supports the USB 1.0 standard. Most current boards support 1.1, and the newer versions 2.0. So it could simply be a hardware issue. I plan on upgrading soon. Just waiting for Intel to announce the P4 2.8ghz, so the 2.4's drop in price. -Andrew

Steve Garrotto wrote:

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> I have never understood the purpose in a USB mouse or keyboard, all of > them I have ever seen causes problems with CPU Utilization. I think > they make computers with Keybord and mouse ports for a reason, then > again, I tend to not mess with a working system. > > SLG >

I have come to that conclusion myself. There are boards currently shipping without PS2 ports which is a problem if USB devices always incur a cpu penalty. I don't know if USB 2.0 addresses that, or if there are better controllers.

Thx, IU! "Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d2f4fcb$[email hidden]...

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> Andre Warringa wrote: > > On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:11:42 -0400, Internet User <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > How do you check the CPU usage, and what did you do to drop the % of > > CPU usage? > > > > Andre > > I was checking through the Windows XP task manager. I'm not sure what I > did to drop the cpu usage, but here are the steps I took > > (1) Disconnected all my USB devices. > (1) Uninstalled all of my USB devices from the control panel. Including > mice, game controllers, and the USB hubs themselves. > (2) Rebooted so that Windows would redetect my USB hubs. I have a hub > on my motherboard and one on the base of my monitor. > (3) Reinstalled the wingman drivers. > (4) Plugged the MOMO and trackball into motherboard USB ports. The MOMO > was previously on the external hub. > > That's it. I didn't do anything that should have solved the cpu usage > problem. I still don't know why the wheel would be eating cpu cycles > when it's not in use, but it is. I've recently moved the trackball from > the USB port, to the PS2 port. It's a new trackball, and I didn't even > realize that it had a PS2 adapter. The MOMO still eats cpu cycles with > out any USB devices plugged in, so it's not a device contention issue. > I have an old motherboard which I believe supports the USB 1.0 standard. > Most current boards support 1.1, and the newer versions 2.0. So it > could simply be a hardware issue. I plan on upgrading soon. Just > waiting for Intel to announce the P4 2.8ghz, so the 2.4's drop in price. > > -Andrew > > > >

On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:53:14 -0400, Internet User <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Andre Warringa wrote: >> On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:11:42 -0400, Internet User <[email hidden]> >> wrote: >> >> How do you check the CPU usage, and what did you do to drop the % of >> CPU usage? >> >> Andre

Well, I deleted all the momo drivers, and still had the fps hickups in GPL. So I don't think it was caused by the Momo software. I did a fresh install of windows after that, reinstalled everything one by one, and GPL seems to work ok now.. Andre