Le Mans 24H, a good game?

I can't but help to think that there is a great game somewhere inside LM24H. It's just a bit hard to find. The previous version (was it late 1999?) was just appalling. This new one is much better. Heck, it might even help us through that awful winter called "Waiting for WSC"! First of all, the controls are a disgrace. This is the worst part of the game. MUCH to unresponsive, and no amount of tweaking the settings will help. Negotiating chicanes is a nightmare and as you all know, Le Mans circuit has several. Steering is so unresponsive that once the front has even _started_ to move into the chicane, you have to fling the wheel full over to be able to get out. And even then you might not be able to make it. It's not that the speed is too high, it's that the slow response of the front wheels make for a BIG turning radius. Exiting corners isn't just a matter of centering the wheel when the nose points in the right direction. Nooo, you'll have to release much earlier or the car will continue to pull you to the inside of the track for a bit. Scary and annoying. Throttle/brake is very hard to modulate. Throttle suffers from the "ketchup effect" and breaking is very hard to modulate and you often lock up the front wheels. All is not gloom and doom however. If you learn to compensate for the atrocious steering and the unforgiving pedals, the driving/racing can be tight and some exciting racing can finally happen. Yay! *Graphics* are both up and down. Cars are poorly modeled and poorly textured. Tracks and surroundings are OTOH quite good. There are several types of off-track surfaces and curbs, and weather effects (rain and gray skies) and the poor visibility during rain is very nicely done. Cars also pull up a mist from the wet road that looks very good. Raindrops look just silly but I guess they're good on the framerate. Tiresmoke and dust are your standard fare, just colored puffs. And you'll see LOTS of smoke in sharp corners. AI cars seem to have the same problem controlling breaking as you have. Skidmarks stay throughout the race (but I've only ran 10 laps, 15 mins yet). Pit crew are animated, to say the least. They're all over your car during stops and work like mad! No in-car view during pitstops, you get a birdseye view. Driving views are behind, high-behind, in car (no dash!) and in car with hood (and no dash). So, no cockpit for the true sim fans. To bad... *Sounds* are great! Engine sounds are different for different type of cars and have some very nice artifacts such as metallic "ringing" and subdued high pitch whining. Idle throttle = thinner sound, full throttle = throaty roar! Wind noise is also present. *Handling* is again so-so. See above about the braindead wheel support. Other than that there are some surprising details. Going over curbs can get rough. Good FF support there. And rear wheel can lose grip and spin right there if you floor it too early. You can also easily feel when the front "goes light" if you go to fast and happen to fly over said curb. Should you happen to venture off the track and wind up in the grass you don't get the "ship anchor effect" you get in some others sims. You'll notice the loose grip but you can keep on driving and eventually make it back to track without losing too much time if you just keep an egg under the throttle. Sand however will get you more stuck. Tight cornering is interesting. "Fluttering/skipping" inner front wheel can happen and you hear it by the sound, a "woobly tweet" :-) Break too hard and lock up the front wheels and the wheel gets a loose feel and the front might wander to either side a tiny bit, much as it should. High speed corners are often no problem with these winged cars if you keep a good line, but in slow 180's you'll have to be more careful with break/throttle. There aren't much in the way of "load transfers" (heck if I know the correct british term) when you break/stomp it, but these cars are very stiff. You _can_ get the car into a controlled slip with the throttle (especially if the rear wheels are a bit worn), but considering the unresponsive controls (see above, again) I'd advise against it. Spins aren't "canned" in any way. I've had many partial spins but don't expect them to last more than 180 degrees though, unless you really mess it up. Tirewear is modeled. In the shorter (10 laps) races this is accelerated so expect to pit in for fuel and new tires after just five-six laps! *Setups* are very limited. High-med-low downforce can be chosen, as can fuel amount, short-med-long gearbox, AT or MT gearbox, sprint-balanced-endurance engine output, and of course, wet-intermed-soft-hard tires. *Cars* are in three classes. GT, open prototypes and closed prototypes. There are supposed to be 70 cars total in the game but I suspect several of these are just repaints. I won a #11 Panoz and a #12 Panoz. Identical apart from the numbers. *Tracks*, there are seven tracks proper but twelve circuits in all. http://www.tdlemans.com/pc/tracks.htm The *AI* at normal is a push-over. I've yet to lose a championship race against normal AI. Expert AI is something completely different however! But I plan to go thru a full normal championship before I tackle the experts. Well, I could go on and on but I'll spare you all the details. But is it a good game or is it pants? I'd say the former. And I'd love to hear input from others who've tried it. Here's hoping for a patch from Infogrames! /petern

"Peter Nilsson" > But is it a good game or is it pants? I'd say the former. > And I'd love to hear input from others who've tried it. > > Here's hoping for a patch from Infogrames! > > /petern You already answered your own question Peter: ______________ Driving views are behind, high-behind, in car (no dash!) and in car with hood (and no dash). So, no cockpit for the true sim fans. To bad... ___________ If I want a kite sim I won't look for one that flies kites behind cars. Just a nice open field with a steady wind. I could go on for hours about what would make a good kite sim, but flying behind a car is NOT it. dave henrie

On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:22:01 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Peter Nilsson" >> But is it a good game or is it pants? I'd say the former. >> And I'd love to hear input from others who've tried it. >> >> Here's hoping for a patch from Infogrames! >> >> /petern > > You already answered your own question Peter: > >______________ >Driving views are behind, high-behind, in car (no dash!) and in car >with hood (and no dash). So, no cockpit for the true sim fans. To >bad... >___________ > If I want a kite sim I won't look for one that flies kites behind cars. >Just a nice open field with a steady wind. I could go on for hours about >what would make a good kite sim, but flying behind a car is NOT it. >dave henrie

Don't victimize yourself. It's not like you are FORCED to use the behind view you know! In car + hood works just fine. /petern

In article <[email hidden]>, "Peter Nilsson" <[email hidden]> wrote: > I can't but help to think that there is a great game somewhere inside > LM24H. It's just a bit hard to find. > The previous version (was it late 1999?) was just appalling. This new > one is much better. Heck, it might even help us through that awful > winter called "Waiting for WSC"! > (snip) You just put in words my opinion..Controls and graphics are not quite good, I also miss the in-car with dash view (just the hood might be great for the 'playstation' people, but it doesn't do the trick for simmers) and also...sound is almost non-existent with me. I get a kind of half-on-half stereo sound that muffles down engine sounds. Force Feedback is unworkable, the cars are swaying all over the place, precise steering is impossible to the point that I returned to my non-FF Modena for the game. But I do think that more is possible with this game,the idea (24 real hours of racing) is great, there is some realism in the cars and I definately are going to go through the patches if there are any..especially the thing with the sound bothers me.... just for the record : you can patch your GP3 to race sports cars, but of course you do not have that fantastic 24H Le Mans track... Happy motoring the Alverman

On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:31:17 GMT, "alverman" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, "Peter Nilsson" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >> I can't but help to think that there is a great game somewhere inside >> LM24H. It's just a bit hard to find. >> The previous version (was it late 1999?) was just appalling. This new >> one is much better. Heck, it might even help us through that awful >> winter called "Waiting for WSC"! >> (snip) > >You just put in words my opinion..Controls and graphics are not quite >good, I also miss the in-car with dash view (just the hood might be great >for the 'playstation' people, but it doesn't do the trick for simmers) and >also...sound is almost non-existent with me. I get a kind of half-on-half >stereo sound that muffles down engine sounds. Force Feedback is >unworkable, the cars are swaying all over the place, precise steering is >impossible to the point that I returned to my non-FF Modena for the game. >But I do think that more is possible with this game,the idea (24 real >hours of racing) is great, there is some realism in the cars and I >definately are going to go through the patches if there are >any..especially the thing with the sound bothers me.... > >just for the record : you can patch your GP3 to race sports cars, but of >course you do not have that fantastic 24H Le Mans track... > >Happy motoring > >the Alverman

Muffled down engine sound? Did you try 3D sound on/off? Is this maybe with the open prototype cars? They have a much quieter engine sound for some reason. But you should be able to hear the other cars. At Bugatti I can easily hear the cars going in the opposite direction at the "weawing" track sections. Not to mention Suzuka when you have cars above you, on the bridge. Nice... /petern

In article <[email hidden]>, "Peter Nilsson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Muffled down engine sound? Did you try 3D sound on/off? Is this maybe > with the open prototype cars? They have a much quieter engine sound for > some reason. > But you should be able to hear the other cars. At Bugatti I can easily > hear the cars going in the opposite direction at the "weawing" track > sections. Not to mention Suzuka when you have cars above you, on the > bridge. Nice... > > /petern

Just to be clear about it, it is the PC version, I have a Creative Labs soundblaster card, no EAX, the choices are limited in setting up options. With the sound option I can choose between 3D emulation low - medium and full, further I can choose something about 2D sounds. I've tried all the settings on/off, low-high-medium...nothing seems to change a bit. Now I hear some muffled engine sound in my right, then in my left speaker and the other speaker bloats out music and crowd/speaker sounds. I turned down game music to have at least some faraway engine sounds audible. I had the same sensation when playing the GP3-2000 add-on for the first time and indeed I could fix it by switching off 3D sound. This option however is not available in 24H. I already said that this is the thing that disturbs me most about the game. I can understand that the soundblaster is not the most state-of-the-art soundcard and that the possibilities are limited but it seems to do the job for a greater part in all my other sims, including GPL,F1-2002 and GP3.. Still I was glad that I won my first 24h (accelerated time though..) at Road Atlanta on expert, but with the Modena non-FF. I'll have a crack at the big game (LM 24h) shortly greets, the alverman