West Racing Legends

Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to the hard core niche product many have asked for in this newsgroup. The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes me a bit worried though... _ Mats Lofkvist [email hidden] PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com

What looks stunning? Some drawings and a concept for a sim? "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]...

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> Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up. This > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > dan > > "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > > this newsgroup. > > > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > > me a bit worried though... > > > > _ > > Mats Lofkvist > > [email hidden] > > > > > > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com > >

I think Christ and Tony have been reading Alison Hine's "ultimate racing sim" page from a few years ago. Nonetheless, nice to finally have an official word on what they've been up to and looking forward to finding out more. Jason On 12 Jul 2002 10:58:20 +0200, Mats Lofkvist <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) >have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to >the hard core niche product many have asked for in >this newsgroup. > >The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes >me a bit worried though... > > _ >Mats Lofkvist >[email hidden] > > >PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com

Er I meant Chris. Man, still reading the website here. My jaw is currently somewhere down around my ankles. The only problem I'm seeing is that these boys seem to have a problem matching their boundless enthusiasm with a product. =/ Jason On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:11:17 GMT, [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote:

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>I think Christ and Tony have been reading Alison Hine's "ultimate >racing sim" page from a few years ago. > >Nonetheless, nice to finally have an official word on what they've >been up to and looking forward to finding out more. > >Jason > > >On 12 Jul 2002 10:58:20 +0200, Mats Lofkvist <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) >>have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to >>the hard core niche product many have asked for in >>this newsgroup. >> >>The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes >>me a bit worried though... >> >> _ >>Mats Lofkvist >>[email hidden] >> >> >>PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com >

Please let this not be vaporware. Please let this not be vaporware. Please let this not be vaporware. If it's what it looks like it will be...it'll probably be the last racing sim I buy, ever... Milhouse "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > this newsgroup. > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > me a bit worried though... > > _ > Mats Lofkvist > [email hidden] > > > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com

Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up. This looks absolutly stunning. :) :P dan "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > this newsgroup. > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > me a bit worried though... > > _ > Mats Lofkvist > [email hidden] > > > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com

What looks stunning? All we have to go on is some two-year-old screen shots, and a newly designed web page. Sure, it SOUNDS good, but I'll reserve judgement for the product release (if there is indeed one this this time - and I honestly hope there is). In article <agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]>, aowk48 @dsl.pipex.com says...

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> Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up. This > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > dan > > "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > > this newsgroup. > > > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > > me a bit worried though... > > > > _ > > Mats Lofkvist > > [email hidden] > > > > > > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com > > >

-- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

There are a few ppl that have driven a beta version ... by all acounts its amazing ... and that was a yr old beta. I have total faith in the west brothers having talked to them. It has taken a very long time to come out but i always knew what they released in the end would be exactly what im looking for. dan "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> What looks stunning? All we have to go on is some two-year-old screen > shots, and a newly designed web page. > > Sure, it SOUNDS good, but I'll reserve judgement for the product release > (if there is indeed one this this time - and I honestly hope there is). > > > In article <agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]>, aowk48 > @dsl.pipex.com says... > > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up.

This

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> > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > > dan > > > > "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > > > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > > > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > > > this newsgroup. > > > > > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > > > me a bit worried though... > > > > > > _ > > > Mats Lofkvist > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > > > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com > > > > > > > > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

"Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]... > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up. This > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > dan > I agree. If this isn't proof positive, I don't know what is... WEST RACING LEGENDS ROCKS!!!!!!!!

"Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > this newsgroup. > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > me a bit worried though... >

Note: this is more a business case analysis than game analysis. Stop reading now if you'll be bored! The great things about this potential game are the focus on the features that Sim Racers want - modularity, expansion, realistic physics, online play. It really comes across as a mouth watering temptation. However, before we get too excited, I think we need to realistically consider the business model and ask the question: Is this going to work? Are West going to be able to pull this off? I understand that West is a small (family?) outfit. Such an undertaking as their new proposal requires huge capital and a lot of risk. Can a simulation that requires a lot more work than a racing game, but appeals to a much smaller, niche market, really be viable? There are some promising signs: Pricing model. The casual gamer will pay little more than street price for the standard game. However, the dedicated Sim Racer will pay extra for each option, and for new tracks. I would imagine that a full blown package with all options and extra tracks might cost in the vicinity of US$500, plus maybe a subscription for high level online racing. This is good thing. Sim Racers have consistantly said that they would pay for the right product - consider the recent threads about people demanding a GPL2 and saying that they'd pay $500 for it! Modular format. The creators understand that people want an evolving Sim, with new cars, new tracks, and maybe even new concepts in racing. All of this will add value to the base product and Intellecutal Property. However, don't be surprised if unlike current sims, West control the additions to their products and require all new cars/tracks to licenced from them instead of freely available from third party enthusiasts. Maybe they will encourage people by offereing a comission on new cars/tracks that are sold. Now for the bad news: Vapourware? After 2 years, WSC vanished into the vapourware cloud it had always been in. It sees that West relied on a vapourware business model, hoping that VCs or 3rd parties would take enough of an interest in their game to sponsor the development. West was too small to take this risk by themselves. Racing legends appears to be starting off the same way. We have been promised the stars, but have seen nothing in concrete except a beautifully rendered, but practically un-realistic racing car. Even with Moore's Law, it will take a decade or so before we see cars with that level detail running around the track together in real time! The web site comes across to me a VC marketing tool, more than a realistic "this is what is coming soon" type site. Risk. To get this concept into production requires a huge amount of risk taking. Not only does the game have to work, but there are issues of infrastucture for hosting online racing, marketing, and finding a top notch distribution outfit. Something of this scale is normally only taken on by large corporations prepared to take the gamble. Remember that recently Papy declined to do a GPL2, even though the Sim Racing community loved the original so much. At the end of the day, Papy made a business decision - they decided that even a very vocal niche market wasn't enough to justify the expense of doing the game. dot game boom? After the dot com crashes of the last 2 years, we have seen a resurgance in computer games, especially online gaming. A lot of people are saying its the next "big thing". In many ways I agree. Machines are get fast enough to some wonderful stuff, and broadband has really taken off, so the infrastructure is there to support a new generation of online gaming. However, have we already forgotten the lesson of the dot com boom? In the end, it was mostly the new comers like web van that did the skyrocket and fell back to earth. However, the traditional players ended up surviving and now prosper. I wonder if it will be the same for gaming? Maybe I'm being a little too cynical. If West can get this game to at least inital production, and the concept takes off, then they might be able to sell out to one of the established big players and walk away smiling. It might also drive forward the market and help create standards for wanted peripherals such as FF pedals (inc clutch), and hydraulic cockpits that simulate motion and g-forces. As for me, I'll take a wait and see. I *hope* it all works out. Tim

Well, the first 2 sims they worked on were canned by publishers. That can't happen this time. Not to say they won't find some way to turn it into vaporware... Based on the website, the core pack will be released this year. I sure as hell hope so. Then again, who knows what it will cost. $200? $500? $1000? Jason On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:50:54 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>What looks stunning? All we have to go on is some two-year-old screen >shots, and a newly designed web page. > >Sure, it SOUNDS good, but I'll reserve judgement for the product release >(if there is indeed one this this time - and I honestly hope there is). > > >In article <agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]>, aowk48 >@dsl.pipex.com says... >> Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up. This >> looks absolutly stunning. :) :P >> dan >> >> "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >> > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) >> > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to >> > the hard core niche product many have asked for in >> > this newsgroup. >> > >> > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes >> > me a bit worried though... >> > >> > _ >> > Mats Lofkvist >> > [email hidden] >> > >> > >> > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com >> >> >> > >-- >========================================================= >DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons >DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 >RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar >Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john >Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > >If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown >above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. >=========================================================

Actually it still is considered Vapourware, and will be until there is an announcement that the game has been released for resale. So far there is no more real proof that it actually be a reality other than what has been said on the site. And this was all pretty much done before, altbeit in other forms. etc. - Isotrip� "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]...

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> Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up. This > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > dan > > "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > > this newsgroup. > > > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > > me a bit worried though... > > > > _ > > Mats Lofkvist > > [email hidden] > > > > > > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com > >

I could go maybe $200, but I don't believe they're are very many people who would pay $1000. If I get that desperate to get screwed, there are plenty of people on the Sierra open servers who will ram you in the ass for free. "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well, the first 2 sims they worked on were canned by publishers. > > That can't happen this time. > > Not to say they won't find some way to turn it into vaporware... > > Based on the website, the core pack will be released this year. I > sure as hell hope so. Then again, who knows what it will cost. $200? > $500? $1000? > > Jason >

"Tim Epstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jWyX8.2923$[email hidden]... > > "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Looks like the concept is everything we(............................................ <really, REALLY big snip> .......................................................wait and see. I *hope* it all works out. > > Tim All that stuff is kinda confusin'. Can you just tell me if my MSFF wheel will work with it , or do i need to go buy a better one??

Dan, Maybe it's time for guys like you have a reality check. Anyone can claim anything they want to on a website. Just exactly what has the West brothers ever produced or finished? NOTHING. We've had 2+ years of promises, countless pics that mean absolutely nothing. I haven't seen one post of anyone who actually drove a fully workable demo of WSC. You do remember the demo that the West promised us after E3 of 2001 don't you? Grand Prix Legends took 2 years from start to finish with a full team of highly paid professionals working a min of 8 hours per day, 5 days per week. Now just how is 2 brothers named West going to do that and get it done by end of the year working part time on this project? They do have jobs don't they? I'm still waiting to hear their version of what really transpired with Empire. You don't really believe the gag order do you? Joel Willstein -- "If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn , then you have enough horsepower." Mark Donohue "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]... > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up. This > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > dan > > "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > > this newsgroup. > > > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > > me a bit worried though... > > > > _ > > Mats Lofkvist > > [email hidden] > > > > > > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com > >

Dan, Just who are these people? Why haven't they posted their reviews? And if it's a year old Beta, then it's of WSC. Stop dreaming. Someone a year or so ago posted that they drove an early demo of WSC and raved over it. When questioned, it was anything but basic. The steering didn't work. The damage model didn't work, nor did hardly anything else. What they did was drive the car in a straight line. What was great was the graphics of the car and the track. Again. You guys need a reality check. At this point the West brothers need to prove their case with concrete proof. Not more meaningless promises. And just what does actually talking to the Wests have anything to do with this? Nothing. I've read all the promises. I've read all the interviews, I read all the posts. And none of it proves anything. Joel Willstein -- "If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn , then you have enough horsepower." Mark Donohue "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:agmd7m$mu5pm$[email hidden]... > There are a few ppl that have driven a beta version ... by all acounts its > amazing ... and that was a yr old beta. I have total faith in the west > brothers having talked to them. It has taken a very long time to come out > but i always knew what they released in the end would be exactly what im > looking for. > dan > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > What looks stunning? All we have to go on is some two-year-old screen > > shots, and a newly designed web page. > > > > Sure, it SOUNDS good, but I'll reserve judgement for the product release > > (if there is indeed one this this time - and I honestly hope there is). > > > > > > In article <agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]>, aowk48 > > @dsl.pipex.com says... > > > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up. > This > > > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > > > dan > > > > > > "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > > > > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > > > > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > > > > this newsgroup. > > > > > > > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > > > > me a bit worried though... > > > > > > > > _ > > > > Mats Lofkvist > > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > > > > > > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ========================================================= > > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > > RASCAR Roster > > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > > ========================================================= > >

Jon, Exactly what proof are you refering to? A picture and a punch of promises of what the sim will eventually do or be? You would be better served understanding the definition of the word proof: The evidence of the truth or correctness of something. This is from Websters Practical Dictionary page 647. Now where is your proof? Joel -- "If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn , then you have enough horsepower." Mark Donohue "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NDyX8.19742$[email hidden]... > > "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]... > > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up. This > > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > > dan > > > > I agree. If this isn't proof positive, I don't know what is... > > WEST RACING LEGENDS ROCKS!!!!!!!! > > >

Ive spoken to the wests quite a bit on vroc .. the guys i know that have tested it are phil flack (guru), martijn taffer, and marc mercer .. and i trust the opinion of them a lot dan "Joel A. Willstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:L4CX8.18413$[email hidden]... > Dan, > > Just who are these people? Why haven't they posted their reviews?And > if it's a year old Beta, then it's of WSC. Stop dreaming. Someone a yearor > so ago posted that they drove an early demo of WSC and raved over it. When > questioned, it was anything but basic. The steering didn't work. Thedamage > model didn't work, nor did hardly anything else. What they did was drivethe > car in a straight line. What was great was the graphics of the car andthe > track. > > Again. You guys need a reality check. At this point the West brothers > need to prove their case with concrete proof. Not more meaninglesspromises. > And just what does actually talking to the Wests have anything to do with > this? Nothing. I've read all the promises. I've read all the interviews,I

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> read all the posts. And none of it proves anything. > > Joel Willstein > > > > -- > > > "If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a

corner

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> till the time you brake for the next turn > , then you have enough horsepower." > Mark Donohue > > > "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:agmd7m$mu5pm$[email hidden]... > > There are a few ppl that have driven a beta version ... by all acounts

its > > amazing ... and that was a yr old beta. I have total faith in the west > > brothers having talked to them. It has taken a very long time to comeout

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> > but i always knew what they released in the end would be exactly what im > > looking for. > > dan > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > What looks stunning? All we have to go on is some two-year-old screen > > > shots, and a newly designed web page. > > > > > > Sure, it SOUNDS good, but I'll reserve judgement for the product

release > > > (if there is indeed one this this time - and I honestly hope thereis). > > > > > > > > > In article <agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]>, aowk48 > > > @dsl.pipex.com says... > > > > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shutup.

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> > This > > > > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > > > > dan > > > > > > > > "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > > > > > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > > > > > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > > > > > this newsgroup. > > > > > > > > > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > > > > > me a bit worried though... > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > Mats Lofkvist > > > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ========================================================= > > > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > > > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > > > RASCAR Roster > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > > > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > > > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > > > > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > > > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > > > ========================================================= > > > > > >

IIRC gpl was worked on as a concept for 3-4 yrs before reales "Joel A. Willstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sZBX8.18409$[email hidden]... > Dan, > > Maybe it's time for guys like you have a reality check. Anyone can > claim anything they want to on a website. Just exactly what has the West > brothers ever produced or finished? NOTHING. We've had 2+ years ofpromises, > countless pics that mean absolutely nothing. I haven't seen one post of > anyone who actually drove a fully workable demo of WSC. You do rememberthe > demo that the West promised us after E3 of 2001 don't you? > > Grand Prix Legends took 2 years from start to finish with a fullteam > of highly paid professionals working a min of 8 hours per day, 5 days per > week. Now just how is 2 brothers named West going to do that and get itdone

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> by end of the year working part time on this project? They do have jobs > don't they? > > I'm still waiting to hear their version of what really transpired > with Empire. You don't really believe the gag order do you? > > Joel Willstein > > -- > > > "If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a

corner

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> till the time you brake for the next turn > , then you have enough horsepower." > Mark Donohue > > > "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]... > > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up.

This

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> > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > > dan > > > > "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > > > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > > > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > > > this newsgroup. > > > > > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > > > me a bit worried though... > > > > > > _ > > > Mats Lofkvist > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > > > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com > > > > > >

"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well, the first 2 sims they worked on were canned by publishers. > Gee. That's encouraging, isn't it? They couldn't even get a sim out using OTHER people's money. What are the odds they can actually produce this one? I'll believe it exists when a copy is installed on my computer. No sooner.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:46:04 -0400, "Joel A. Willstein" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Dan, >... > Grand Prix Legends took 2 years from start to finish with a full team >of highly paid professionals working a min of 8 hours per day, 5 days per >week. Now just how is 2 brothers named West going to do that and get it done >by end of the year working part time on this project? They do have jobs >don't they? AFAIK, they're on it fulltime. First paid by Empire, now by themselves. > I'm still waiting to hear their version of what really transpired >with Empire. You don't really believe the gag order do you? Difference of opinion on what kind of carsim it should become. Read the website and you'll see that's it's even quite a gamble; it's targeted at high-end users, or simfans. Not exactly what a regular publisher would aim for. But great for most of the visitors of this newsgroup. The idea of just bringing it out only online was born quite soon after the Wests & Empire split. Almost a year ago I'd say. Ruud van Gaal Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/ Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Joel , I am gonna level with you. I think you are the voice of reason in this whole wsc/wrl debacle. You, my friend, have a gift. You have the ability to look beyond the hype and promises, and say that we have been promised much but given nothing in a manner that is straighforward and to the point, and for that I envy you. Me on the other hand, well I just read some of these posts, think of those poor souls out there looking forward to wrl, maybe setting themselves up for nothing more than another disapointment, and I start to giggle. Then I go to the wrl website and see the close-up photos of the little leather cases for the disc, notice there is little if anything showing what the sim supposedly looks like or if it even exists, and I start to laugh. After that I come back here and read some more, and the very thought that this might be the practical joke of the century (at least for r.a.s) is too much for my easily amused self to handle. Fighting off gales of laughter, I compose a sarcastic message all in the name of good clean fun, and sometimes it is all I can do to click file>send message before I collapse, hysterical to the point of being rendered immobile. I can appreciate the fact that you are vigilantly trying to warn the masses that wrl may be nothing more than a cruel hoax, and I understand that it is in this spirit that you replied to my post. Furthermore I am grateful for what you are trying to do for mankind, but be forewarned -- they will only hate you for it. Sometimes it is easier just to let them go and laugh at them. "Joel A. Willstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:S9CX8.18415$[email hidden]... > Jon, > > Exactly what proof are you refering to? A picture and a punch of > promises of what the sim will eventually do or be? You would be better > served understanding the definition of the word proof: The evidence ofthe > truth or correctness of something. This is from Websters Practical > Dictionary page 647. > Now where is your proof? > > Joel >

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > What looks stunning? All we have to go on is some two-year-old screen > shots, and a newly designed web page. > > Sure, it SOUNDS good, but I'll reserve judgement for the product release > (if there is indeed one this this time - and I honestly hope there is). >Is this the biggest u-turn in ras history ? I think so.

"Mats Lofkvist" wrote: > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > this newsgroup. I agree totally. I think this is the only way we would get such a product for our niche group. I have been a fan of the expansion pack approach since Indycar1. I'd rather spend loads on adding to a quality sim than wasting money on potential ones to fulfill my desire for something new. Add up the now unused titles on your shelves or attic in that search for the next milestone sim. > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > me a bit worried though... I assume this takes the code from WSC and wraps it in the new concept. No doubt many will be sceptical. Me - I'll remain optimistic as this is the only likely option for non Nascar fans to get a product worthy of a sequel to GPL. Cheers Tony

"jon" wrote... > All that stuff is kinda confusin'. Can you just tell > me if my MSFF wheel will work with it , or do i need > to go buy a better one?? Depends... if you have free reign to upgrade your equipment any time you see fit, the MSFF will do fine. If this is not the case I'm afraid WRL will at least require a MOMO. And a GF4. Jan. ;-) =---

Looks like I may have to go with the vinyl case with my copy of wrl instead of the fancy leather one. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94EX8.1769$[email hidden]... > "jon" wrote... > > All that stuff is kinda confusin'. Can you just tell > > me if my MSFF wheel will work with it , or do i need > > to go buy a better one?? > > Depends... if you have free reign to upgrade your equipment any time yousee

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> fit, the MSFF will do fine. If this is not the case I'm afraid WRL will at > least require a MOMO. And a GF4. > > Jan. ;-) > =--- > >

"Tim Epstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jWyX8.2923$[email hidden]... > > Pricing model. The casual gamer will pay little more than street price for > the standard game. However, the dedicated Sim Racer will pay extra foreach > option, and for new tracks. I would imagine that a full blown package with > all options and extra tracks might cost in the vicinity of US$500, plus > maybe a subscription for high level online racing. This is good thing. Sim > Racers have consistantly said that they would pay for the right product - > consider the recent threads about people demanding a GPL2 and saying that > they'd pay $500 for it! If they do this right, they could market it to professional race teams in F1, Sports Cars, Nascar or whatever. Custom tracks and cars modeled after the real thing specifically for the team and driver in question could pull in alot of cash. They should consider a professional hardware setup as well to make it a turn-key solution for interested race teams. Just my 2 cents... - David Cook

"Bejeezuz" wrote... > Is this the biggest u-turn in ras history ? > I think so. Not even close, IMO. Jan. =---

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OfEX8.1779$[email hidden]...

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> "Bejeezuz" wrote... > > Is this the biggest u-turn in ras history ? > > I think so. > > Not even close, IMO. > > Jan.

The biggest u-turn in ras history was when DGF started racing Nascar ;)

Well, it's a HELL of a blueprint. Gotta give them that! -Larry "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > this newsgroup. > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > me a bit worried though... > > _ > Mats Lofkvist > [email hidden] > > > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com

If it costs that much, it will probably fail before it ever gets off the ground. No matter HOW good it is, you can only charge but so much for a game. Would I mind spending $25 for an option pack every few months? Not at all. But I'm not spending $100+ on a bare bones game. -Larry "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well, the first 2 sims they worked on were canned by publishers. > > That can't happen this time. > > Not to say they won't find some way to turn it into vaporware... > > Based on the website, the core pack will be released this year. I > sure as hell hope so. Then again, who knows what it will cost. $200? > $500? $1000? > > Jason > > On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:50:54 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >What looks stunning? All we have to go on is some two-year-old screen > >shots, and a newly designed web page. > > > >Sure, it SOUNDS good, but I'll reserve judgement for the product release > >(if there is indeed one this this time - and I honestly hope there is). > > > > > >In article <agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]>, aowk48 > >@dsl.pipex.com says... > >> Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up.

This

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> >> looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > >> dan > >> > >> "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> news:[email hidden]... > >> > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > >> > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > >> > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > >> > this newsgroup. > >> > > >> > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > >> > me a bit worried though... > >> > > >> > _ > >> > Mats Lofkvist > >> > [email hidden] > >> > > >> > > >> > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com > >> > >> > >> > > > >-- > >========================================================= > >DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > >DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > >RASCAR Roster > > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > >Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > >Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > > >If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > >above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > >========================================================= >

"Rob Adams" wrote... > <snip> > The biggest u-turn in ras history was when DGF started racing Nascar ;) That's a candidate for sure. Jan. =---

On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:19:34 GMT, "Milhouse" <[email hidden]> wrote: >If it's what it looks like it will be...it'll probably be the last racing >sim I buy, ever... > >Milhouse That's what Derek Smart said about Battlecruiser 3000 AD too :) Andre

On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:32:19 +0100, "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up. This >looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > dan It sure does! Especially this part is interesting: When will it be ready? We expect to launch our first product later this year. We will be introducing a beta test programme for all those who cannot wait for the finished article. More information on this will be available on our website. I guess there will be a LOT of beta-tester for this baby :) For some reason I really like the name too.. Racing Legends.. yummie :) Andre

On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:20:47 GMT, "Dildo Buggins" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Gee. That's encouraging, isn't it? They couldn't even get a sim out using >OTHER people's money. What are the odds they can actually produce this one? To the best of my knowledge, the other sims were canned because the publisher felt they were focusing too much on realism instead of making the game entertaining to the lowest common denominator. Look at Empire. I actually respected them for publishing Rowan's Mig Alley and Battle of Britain, and being willing to take a chance on World Sports Cars, but now they're throwing us this Total Immersion Racing shit. If you want a racing sim with over-aggressive AI and canned physics, we already have F1RC. Jason

In article <NDyX8.19742$[email hidden]>, "jon" <[email hidden]> writes: >I agree. If this isn't proof positive, I don't know what is... > An actual *product* in our hands...THAT would be proof positive...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]>, "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> writes: >Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up. This >looks absolutly stunning. :) :P Technically, until it actually sees the light of day, it *is* vaporware... Not a slam, just reminding you of the definition. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

The problem I see, is that it looks like they are trying to sell each piece of one complete sim separately to grab a ton of extra money. At least half of those "expansion packs" should have been included in the core game engine. This is definitely one to beta test/try the demo before touching it with a 10 foot pole. -- --------------------- Rob Berryhill "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > this newsgroup. > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > me a bit worried though... > > _ > Mats Lofkvist > [email hidden] > > > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com >

"Nigel Nichols" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding news:agnpsk$pni$[email hidden]... <snip> > Take this not personal Dan but .........Jesus Christ......... What do you > mean the vapour ware guys finally shut up. WSC is vapourware , it hasn't > happened. West Bros haven't even bothered to mention it. RL is a new > concept. Note the word "concept". Why did the West Bros bother with this > new web page at all. Why did they not just let the sim world go on aboutWSC > until they had something "real" to offer with this RL thing. Then do theweb > page with a fucking demo. I mean they strung us along for a couple ofyears

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> now on WSC. Now we are expect to ignore it and jump on the RL band wagon. > Bloody hell. All I need now is to get this hook,line and sinker out of my > guts. > > Going by the one and only car picture on the West Bros site one could have > been forgiven they wre looking at GPL2. Did Papy sell their GPL > code......... > > I ask everyone here that really gives a shit if they have at some stage

sat > back and thought of a really awsome racing sim that could be added to with > new packs as time goes on. Plug in new cars with their own physics ra ra > ra. etc etc. RL is one of these sit back and dream things. Its a"concept". > And thats the trouble with the West Bros. They are always a "Everything > will be revieled later this year" song. They are always later this year. > > I wonder how long we will play their "lets drag the suckers along for a > couple of years" game this time. > Even my weakest fart has had more sustance than the West Bros can managein > a racing sim. > And whats this FAQ section of the site saying "here is the answer to the > most frequently asked question". How can they be, we only just heardabout > this new concept in the last day or so.<snip> I would surely appreciate a modular racing sim. But I have seen none yet. There has been a constant debate about WSC being vaporware or not. Well, the West's have comfirmed that it is. They're not releasing it. Now they're talking about Racing Legends. There has been a big hype about WSC. A lot of posters has blamed the West's for the hype, whereas a lot of other posters has said that the West hasn't said anything, thus are not responsible for the hype. Well, after launching the concept of Racing Legends, without presenting a demo, I would say that they have started a new hype. They couldn't finish WSC. I don't know the real reason, but I'm lead to believe tar the reason was Empire pushing them into making WSC an arcade racer. Now, why would Empire do that? Would it be because the big market demands a non-hardcore sim, or is it because *the ultimate sim* probably would suffer from bad fps on most of today's PCs? Was Empire under the impression that the West's were doing an arcade racer when they signed the contract? I guess not. The West's are to my limited knowledge a team of two developers. After several years of development, they apparently has ditched their original concept, and are launching a new concept. Is there any reason to believe that the new concept may materialize in a demo this year? And if there is to be a demo: Will it be a proper indication of what the final product will be like? How many bugs can a team of 2 discover and fix? I sure would like to see a proper sim. Make no mistake about it. But as long as ppl claim that they are developing the sim of the century - year after year - and are not presenting anything but promises, pictures and a few videos, I will not hold my breath, or postpone the purchase of another sim. Software business are known to present launch dates they do not keep, propably in an effort of persuading potential buyers not to buy the product of the competitor. Although I may sound negative, I really would like to see a sim written in the spirit the West's have presented. But I have seen none yet. Not even from then West's. Jon Andersen

Promises , Promises..........Have we not been down this road with WSC.......... when will you people learn? I've got some nice seashore property In NM I'll unload cheap.

Agreed. "Nigel Nichols" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:agnpsk$pni$[email hidden]... > Dan Leach <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]... > > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up.This > > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > > dan > > > I mean they strung us along for a couple of years > now on WSC. Now we are expect to ignore it and jump on the RL band wagon. > Bloody hell. All I need now is to get this hook,line and sinker out of my > guts.

this whole west bros. hype is a bunch of bs...they are banking on dedicated sim racers to just drop everything they are doing and purchase their product. Remember if it sounds too good to be true..it probably is. Flame away.. DC David Cook <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3fEX8.16793$[email hidden]... > "Tim Epstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:jWyX8.2923$[email hidden]... > > > > Pricing model. The casual gamer will pay little more than street pricefor > > the standard game. However, the dedicated Sim Racer will pay extra for > each > > option, and for new tracks. I would imagine that a full blown packagewith > > all options and extra tracks might cost in the vicinity of US$500, plus > > maybe a subscription for high level online racing. This is good thing.Sim > > Racers have consistantly said that they would pay for the rightproduct - > > consider the recent threads about people demanding a GPL2 and sayingthat > > they'd pay $500 for it! > > If they do this right, they could market it to professional race teams in > F1, Sports Cars, Nascar or whatever. Custom tracks and cars modeled after > the real thing specifically for the team and driver in question could pull > in alot of cash. They should consider a professional hardware setup aswell

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> to make it a turn-key solution for interested race teams. > > Just my 2 cents... > > - David Cook > >

> That's what Derek Smart said about Battlecruiser 3000 AD too :) > > Andre He' partially right, I 'haven't' bought any space sims since BC 2kad was released........' dave henrie

Larry, you seem to think that YOUR view on price is indicative of the market. What is this based on? I know I'd pay up to $250 for the "ultimate" sim and $50-100 per add-on depending on quality and features. I don't think I'm alone. There are plenty of people with this level of disposable income for a serious hobby, at least in my part of the US. Moreover, West Bros. don't need to sell 500,000 copies to make a profit at $100-200 per copy. My question is: what makes you think your price limit is so definitive regarding the feasibility of this product? I don't presume my price tolerance is the standard so why is your price tolerance the standard? -- Joe Marques "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:LeFX8.63208$%%[email hidden]... > If it costs that much, it will probably fail before it ever gets off the > ground. > > No matter HOW good it is, you can only charge but so much for a game. > > Would I mind spending $25 for an option pack every few months? Not at all. > But I'm not spending $100+ on a bare bones game. > > -Larry > > "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Well, the first 2 sims they worked on were canned by publishers. > > > > That can't happen this time. > > > > Not to say they won't find some way to turn it into vaporware... > > > > Based on the website, the core pack will be released this year. I > > sure as hell hope so. Then again, who knows what it will cost. $200? > > $500? $1000? > > > > Jason > > > > On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:50:54 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >What looks stunning? All we have to go on is some two-year-old screen > > >shots, and a newly designed web page. > > > > > >Sure, it SOUNDS good, but I'll reserve judgement for the product release > > >(if there is indeed one this this time - and I honestly hope there is). > > > > > > > > >In article <agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]>, aowk48 > > >@dsl.pipex.com says... > > >> Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up. > This > > >> looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > > >> dan > > >> > > >> "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >> news:[email hidden]... > > >> > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > > >> > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > > >> > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > > >> > this newsgroup. > > >> > > > >> > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > > >> > me a bit worried though... > > >> > > > >> > _ > > >> > Mats Lofkvist > > >> > [email hidden] > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >-- > > >========================================================= > > >DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > > >DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > > >RASCAR Roster > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > > >Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > > >Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > > > > >If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > > >above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > > >========================================================= > > > >

Emphasis on BUY. ;) Milhouse "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:19:34 GMT, "Milhouse" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >If it's what it looks like it will be...it'll probably be the last racing > >sim I buy, ever... > > > >Milhouse > > That's what Derek Smart said about Battlecruiser 3000 AD too :) > > Andre

Nigel you seem desperate and almost wild-eyed that this sim doesnt come out... why? I mean i can understand ppl being sceptical but u seem to have some other agenda... will you lose a $1000 bet if it comes out or something? Ive talked to the wests quite a bit and i know ppl that have driven beta's of wsc/rl and i know they do very high quality work.Why cant 2 ppl create a concept like this? one person did it with x plane (a very similar concept) If you have nother useful to say at all why say anything? why not just shut up and go back to gt3 or ridge racer? dan "Nigel Nichols" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:agnpsk$pni$[email hidden]... > Dan Leach <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]... > > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up.This

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> > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > > dan > > > > Oh my giddy aunt.. > Take this not personal Dan but .........Jesus Christ......... What do you > mean the vapour ware guys finally shut up. WSC is vapourware , it hasn't > happened. West Bros haven't even bothered to mention it. RL is a new > concept. Note the word "concept". Why did the West Bros bother with this > new web page at all. Why did they not just let the sim world go on about

WSC > until they had something "real" to offer with this RL thing. Then do theweb > page with a fucking demo. I mean they strung us along for a couple ofyears

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> now on WSC. Now we are expect to ignore it and jump on the RL band wagon. > Bloody hell. All I need now is to get this hook,line and sinker out of my > guts. > > Going by the one and only car picture on the West Bros site one could have > been forgiven they wre looking at GPL2. Did Papy sell their GPL > code......... > > I ask everyone here that really gives a shit if they have at some stage

sat > back and thought of a really awsome racing sim that could be added to with > new packs as time goes on. Plug in new cars with their own physics ra ra > ra. etc etc. RL is one of these sit back and dream things. Its a"concept". > And thats the trouble with the West Bros. They are always a "Everything > will be revieled later this year" song. They are always later this year. > > I wonder how long we will play their "lets drag the suckers along for a > couple of years" game this time. > Even my weakest fart has had more sustance than the West Bros can managein > a racing sim. > And whats this FAQ section of the site saying "here is the answer to the > most frequently asked question". How can they be, we only just heardabout

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> this new concept in the last day or so. > > Phew, now I go get some fresh air. > I should have weaker coffee's too. > > No nasty flaming guys. I'm just having my toot. > In the end I'm here for the fun. > > I'd like to thank my mother...... > Bye > Nigel > > >

[email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) writes: > The idea of just bringing it out only online was born quite soon after > the Wests & Empire split. Almost a year ago I'd say. has anyone made that particular retail strategy work yet? last I checked, games retailing online were lucky to sell 200 copies. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy"

Combat mission. Pretty sure this game sold tens of thousands of copies online only (possibly more, I couldn't find any hard data but it's a very successful game). -- Joe Marques "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > [email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) writes: > > > The idea of just bringing it out only online was born quite soon after > > the Wests & Empire split. Almost a year ago I'd say. > > has anyone made that particular retail strategy work yet? last I > checked, games retailing online were lucky to sell 200 copies. > > -- > Gunnar > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 > "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy"

"Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > this newsgroup. > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > me a bit worried though... >

Scenario: Meeting at Empire when West Bros. consummated the sale of WSC code to Empire. Miscellaneous factoid: 4 lawyers present for every principle involved. Most Expensive Lawyer: "Chris and Tony, in exchange for valuable consideration you transfer ownership of all intellectual property known as "WSC", do you both understand?" <all other lawyers simply nod an grin while pretending to take notes to justify their $300/hour bill> Tony & Chris: "YES!" <cha-ching!> Most Expensive Lawyer: "This means you can never use, utilize, reverse engineer, sideways engineer, forward engineer, unpack, unfurl, unwind, or in any way manipulate or juggle the original code to World Sports Cars racing the computer game/PS2 game/XBOX game/"misc. console game", hereinafter referred to as "WSC" for simplicity. You are hereby surrendering, giving up, ditching, tossing, throwing away the ownership, possession, legal guardianship and any form of holding or touching heretofore ad infinitum, forever and ever, until death do us part, now you may kiss the bride, go in peace, amen, do you understand? Tony & Chris: <visibly confused> "Yes? . . . We mean YES!" <cha-ching!> 4-hours later back home: Chris & Tony boot up their development machine and quietly insert an unmarked CD-ROM (purposefully scuffed and marred on the back side to look unimportant and worthless) containing the authentic WSC code the just "sold". Tony changes one line of code, Chris clicks the "save" button and Shazaam! - an "entirely new project" is born! Lesson: Always remember to read BETWEEN the lines. ;0) Disclaimer: This account is fictional in nature. Any reference to actual events, places or persons is strictly for the purposes of attempted humor. Any reference to actual persons (living, dead or cryogenically frozen), events or software is purely coincidental (except the part about the lawyers, they really are over priced and generally useless). -- Joe Marques

Dan Leach <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]... > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up. This > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > dan > Oh my giddy aunt.. Take this not personal Dan but .........Jesus Christ......... What do you mean the vapour ware guys finally shut up. WSC is vapourware , it hasn't happened. West Bros haven't even bothered to mention it. RL is a new concept. Note the word "concept". Why did the West Bros bother with this new web page at all. Why did they not just let the sim world go on about WSC until they had something "real" to offer with this RL thing. Then do the web page with a fucking demo. I mean they strung us along for a couple of years now on WSC. Now we are expect to ignore it and jump on the RL band wagon. Bloody hell. All I need now is to get this hook,line and sinker out of my guts. Going by the one and only car picture on the West Bros site one could have been forgiven they wre looking at GPL2. Did Papy sell their GPL code......... I ask everyone here that really gives a shit if they have at some stage sat back and thought of a really awsome racing sim that could be added to with new packs as time goes on. Plug in new cars with their own physics ra ra ra. etc etc. RL is one of these sit back and dream things. Its a "concept". And thats the trouble with the West Bros. They are always a "Everything will be revieled later this year" song. They are always later this year. I wonder how long we will play their "lets drag the suckers along for a couple of years" game this time. Even my weakest fart has had more sustance than the West Bros can manage in a racing sim. And whats this FAQ section of the site saying "here is the answer to the most frequently asked question". How can they be, we only just heard about this new concept in the last day or so. Phew, now I go get some fresh air. I should have weaker coffee's too. No nasty flaming guys. I'm just having my toot. In the end I'm here for the fun. I'd like to thank my mother...... Bye Nigel

"Joe Marques" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > [email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) writes: > > > > > The idea of just bringing it out only online was born quite soon after > > > the Wests & Empire split. Almost a year ago I'd say. > > > > has anyone made that particular retail strategy work yet? last I > > checked, games retailing online were lucky to sell 200 copies. > > Combat mission. Pretty sure this game sold tens of thousands of copies > online only (possibly more, I couldn't find any hard data but it's a very > successful game).

hm. don't think I've ever heard of it. got an url? -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "Det er nok ingen ovn, men fartsm�leren v�r."

Antietam. Did well enuf (as did Combat Mission) to go retail. "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) writes: > > > The idea of just bringing it out only online was born quite soon after > > the Wests & Empire split. Almost a year ago I'd say. > > has anyone made that particular retail strategy work yet? last I > checked, games retailing online were lucky to sell 200 copies. > > -- > Gunnar > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 > "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy"

Good one, Joe! "Joe Marques" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:k3YX8.80025$[email hidden]...

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> "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > > this newsgroup. > > > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > > me a bit worried though... > > > > Scenario: > > Meeting at Empire when West Bros. consummated the sale of WSC code to > Empire. > > Miscellaneous factoid: 4 lawyers present for every principle involved. > > Most Expensive Lawyer: "Chris and Tony, in exchange for valuable > consideration you transfer ownership of all intellectual property known as > "WSC", do you both understand?" > > <all other lawyers simply nod an grin while pretending to take notes to > justify their $300/hour bill> > > Tony & Chris: "YES!" <cha-ching!> > > Most Expensive Lawyer: "This means you can never use, utilize, reverse > engineer, sideways engineer, forward engineer, unpack, unfurl, unwind, or

in > any way manipulate or juggle the original code to World Sports Cars racing > the computer game/PS2 game/XBOX game/"misc. console game", hereinafter > referred to as "WSC" for simplicity. You are hereby surrendering, givingup, > ditching, tossing, throwing away the ownership, possession, legal > guardianship and any form of holding or touching heretofore ad infinitum, > forever and ever, until death do us part, now you may kiss the bride, goin

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> peace, amen, do you understand? > > Tony & Chris: <visibly confused> "Yes? . . . We mean YES!" <cha-ching!> > > 4-hours later back home: > > Chris & Tony boot up their development machine and quietly insert an > unmarked CD-ROM (purposefully scuffed and marred on the back side to look > unimportant and worthless) containing the authentic WSC code the just > "sold". Tony changes one line of code, Chris clicks the "save" button and > Shazaam! - an "entirely new project" is born! > > Lesson: > > Always remember to read BETWEEN the lines. ;0) > > Disclaimer: > > This account is fictional in nature. Any reference to actual events,

places > or persons is strictly for the purposes of attempted humor. Any reference > to actual persons (living, dead or cryogenically frozen), events orsoftware

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> is purely coincidental (except the part about the lawyers, they really are > over priced and generally useless). > > -- > Joe Marques > > > >

Ditto john... When that CD is in my hand,and not until then.... "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> What looks stunning? All we have to go on is some two-year-old screen > shots, and a newly designed web page. > > Sure, it SOUNDS good, but I'll reserve judgement for the product release > (if there is indeed one this this time - and I honestly hope there is). > > > In article <agmb7j$miao1$[email hidden]>, aowk48 > @dsl.pipex.com says... > > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up.

This

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> > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P > > dan > > > > "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I) > > > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to > > > the hard core niche product many have asked for in > > > this newsgroup. > > > > > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes > > > me a bit worried though... > > > > > > _ > > > Mats Lofkvist > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > > > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com > > > > > > > > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

Gunnar Horrigmo wrote: > hm. don't think I've ever heard of it. got an url? http://www.battlefront.com/ -- Fester

You are about to be the biggest U-Turn in r.a.s. history, my friend. -- "Boy! You've got to have really big attachments to try a pass there... and make it." - David Hobbs mark "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5uFX8.1886$[email hidden]... > "Rob Adams" wrote... > > <snip> > > The biggest u-turn in ras history was when DGF started racing Nascar ;) > > That's a candidate for sure. > > Jan. > =--- > >

"mark jeangerard" wrote... > You are about to be the biggest U-Turn in r.a.s. > history, my friend. Even bigger than Ian Lake suddenly supporting minimum ride height in GPL after we called him a hotlapper? ;-) Jan. =---