WSC..RL..whatever

All I know is I'll most likely be too old and broke to play the damn thing, even if does actually hit the surface this time. And as for the cost of playing and upgrading , I'm afraid I'll be giving it a miss. My loss, I know. But if the price of online gaming goes up, plus the normal PC upgrades that will be inevitable to run this thing as they intend, plus all the expansion mods, then I may have to take up bank robbing to fund my hobby. So I won't be posting anymore "Put up or shut up" comments as regards any future West Bros. projects. I had really hoped that this countdown was heading for something with a little more substance after all this time. Too bad. Just one question before I shut up about Racing Legends/WSC , why don't the West's release the WSC beta that so many have claimed to have played ? You know, sort of like a goodwill gesture ?

"redTed" wrote: > Just one question before I shut up about Racing Legends/WSC , why don'tthe West's release > the WSC beta that so many have claimed to have played ? You know, sort oflike a goodwill > gesture ? AFAIK, that code belong to Empire. (Which is basicly why 'RL' is an "entirely new project") -- ed_

> why don't the West's release the WSC beta that so many have claimed tohave played ? You really havnt got any grasp on whats happened at all have you. Empire own the rights to that code. Chris and Tony fundamentally sacrificed the WSC project so they could start from fresh with RL. You want WSC beta - go ask empire for it - and they'll tell you to screw yerself. One things for sure - you say you'll never get Racing Legends. Publicly - here's �5 that says you do. Doug

I'll take that bet, and give you 10 to 1 odds to boot. "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:opLX8.17011$xU5.1047466@wards... > Publicly - here's �5 that says you do. > > > Doug

"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:opLX8.17011$xU5.1047466@wards...

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> > why don't the West's release the WSC beta that so many have claimed to > have played ? > > You really havnt got any grasp on whats happened at all have you. > > Empire own the rights to that code. Chris and Tony fundamentally sacrificed > the WSC project so they could start from fresh with RL. > > You want WSC beta - go ask empire for it - and they'll tell you to screw > yerself. > > One things for sure - you say you'll never get Racing Legends. > > Publicly - here's �5 that says you do. >

In all honesty, do you really believe that the West bros have nothing remaining from WSC ? And if Empire are using the same code that the West's developed, then TIR should be a magnificent driving sim, eh ;-) ? And why would I pay �100's of pounds for something that, if it ever appears, will most likely be "JUST ANOTHER COMPUTER GAME" ? I'll pay � 34.99....max. And only if it's any good. As it stands, from what I've seen on the West's fantasy page, I will not be able to afford it.. Can you understand this ? Or is your life so sad that you can afford extravagancies like this ?

> In all honesty, do you really believe that the West bros have nothingremaining from WSC ? They have it on CD lyign around - of course they do. But legally - RL can not, and will not contain it. FACT. > And if Empire are using the same code that the West's developed, then TIRshould be a > magnificent driving sim, eh ;-) As I said - you still dont know anything do you. TIR contains non of the west brothers code and was started from scratch by a different developer. Perhaps it'd be more up your street - cheap - arcade - crap. > And why would I pay �100's of pounds for something that, if it everappears, will most > likely be "JUST ANOTHER COMPUTER GAME" ? Nope - you dont understand it at all. I'll give up here. DOug

"redTed" wrote... > <snip> > In all honesty, do you really believe that the West bros > have nothing remaining from WSC ? I'm sure they've got everything backed up. I'm also sure they don't want to get sued. > And if Empire are using the same code that the West's > developed, then TIR should be a magnificent driving > sim, eh ;-) ? Empire don't want TIR to be a "magnificent driving sim" AFAIK.

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> And why would I pay �100's of pounds for something that, > if it ever appears, will most likely be "JUST ANOTHER > COMPUTER GAME" ? I'll pay � 34.99....max. And only if > it's any good. As it stands, from what I've seen on the > West's fantasy page, I will not be able to afford it.. > Can you understand this ? Or is your life so sad that > you can afford extravagancies like this ?

Sure... if having disposable income is sad, then my life is sad. There's a guy in Sweden who owns a couple F1 cars and let's people drive them at about $1200 a pop. Getting there, accomodation and back would cost about a 3rd of that again. I've seriously considered doing this, so why wouldn't I buy WRL provided the demo convinces me it's good? 10 laps (or whatever it is) in an F1 car or a 100laps+ a week for as long as I see fit? Easy choice. The Wests have, at the very least, discovered a niche market which has a definate need for a specific product and can afford to buy a non-mass produced solution: people who treat simracing as a hobby. If they manage to cater for this market I'm sure there will be professional interest and, if they don't under or overprice their product they will see a handsome return. Whether they will be able to actually do this or not remains to be seen as, personally, I think it's *very* ambitious, but I wouldn't want to doubt their intentions. Jan. =---

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> > In all honesty, do you really believe that the West bros have nothing > remaining from WSC ? > > They have it on CD lyign around - of course they do. But legally - RL can > not, and will not contain it. FACT. > > > > And if Empire are using the same code that the West's developed, then TIR > should be a > > magnificent driving sim, eh ;-) > > As I said - you still dont know anything do you. TIR contains non of the > west brothers code and was started from scratch by a different developer. > Perhaps it'd be more up your street - cheap - arcade - crap. > > > > And why would I pay �100's of pounds for something that, if it ever > appears, will most > > likely be "JUST ANOTHER COMPUTER GAME" ? > > Nope - you dont understand it at all. I'll give up here. >

Same here. You don't get my pov and I don't get yours. That life. Cheap arcade crap currently residing on my PC includes Rally Trophy..GPL..F1 2001+ALMS and FIA-GTV3..F1 2002 and STCC 2 ..SBK 2001 and Nascar 2002. Each one bought for less than �30. All very enjoyable. Just one last thing.. Will Racing Legends be more than a PC game ? Will it be so close to actually driving a race car that it's scary ? No, it won't. No matter how bloody good it may be..it's still just a game. I think you've lost touch somewhere down the line and have crossed over into a virtual vortex of your own mind where reality and driving sims have become one ;-) So if you can spare just one last precious response explaining to me just how and why this mythical game will get round the basic fundamental limitations of sitting behind a monitor with a plastic steering wheel and pedals that vibrate when you hit the curbs and make you spill your coffee, I would really appreciate it.

"> > Sure... if having disposable income is sad, then my life is sad. There's a > guy in Sweden who owns a couple F1 cars and let's people drive them at about > $1200 a pop. Getting there, accomodation and back would cost about a 3rd of > that again. I've seriously considered doing this, so why wouldn't I buy WRL > provided the demo convinces me it's good? 10 laps (or whatever it is) in an > F1 car or a 100laps+ a week for as long as I see fit? Easy choice. You would seriously play a game that simulates(lol)driving an F1 car than actually driving an F1 car ? That doesn't stike you as sad ? > The Wests have, at the very least, discovered a niche market which has a > definate need for a specific product and can afford to buy a non-mass > produced solution: people who treat simracing as a hobby. If they manage to > cater for this market I'm sure there will be professional interest and, if > they don't under or overprice their product they will see a handsome return. Sounds more like the Wests have discovered a bunch of suckers who will not only send them mail orders for loads 'a' money, but will continue to do so for how ever long they want. No wonder their ISP is joker.com

> Cheap arcade crap currently residing on my PC includes RallyTrophy..GPL..F1 2001+ALMS and > FIA-GTV3..F1 2002 and STCC 2 ..SBK 2001 and Nascar 2002. Each one boughtfor less than > �30. All very enjoyable. > Just one last thing.. Will Racing Legends be more than a PC game ? Willit be so close to > actually driving a race car that it's scary ? No, it won't. No matter howbloody good it > may be..it's still just a game. I think you've lost touch somewhere downthe line and have > crossed over into a virtual vortex of your own mind where reality anddriving sims have > become one ;-) Have you ever driven a race car or rally car and made the comparison? I rallied "classic" cars for more than 10 years. My First rally car was Mk1 Cortina, then Escort etc, as in Rally Trophy. The handling of the cars in Rally Trophy is close to their real-life counterparts. Plenty of real life racers test their suspension and handling ideas using GPL. Ask yourself why Pablo Montoya enjoys Sim racing? Then ask yourself why in several countries time on MS flight Simulator can count towards logged flying time? Several lucky people who are both pilots and have raced cars have commented that GPL is as much as a sim of racing cars as MS Flight Simulator is of planes.

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> > Have you ever driven a race car or rally car and made the comparison? > > I rallied "classic" cars for more than 10 years. My First rally car was Mk1 > Cortina, then Escort etc, as in Rally Trophy. The handling of the cars in > Rally Trophy is close to their real-life counterparts. Plenty of real life > racers test their suspension and handling ideas using GPL. > > Ask yourself why Pablo Montoya enjoys Sim racing?

let me think..maybe it's because he likes playing computer games ? Like lots of other people . Or do you reckon he is "testing" setups? LOL No. I have never driven a real race car. Closest thing was a Porsche Carrera and a 928 back in 1982. Also went out with Phil Short in a road going Audi Quattro in 1984. Absolutely incredible experience. Bears no resemblance to ANY driving game I've ever played.

"redTed" wrote... > <snip> > You would seriously play a game that simulates(lol) > driving an F1 car than actually driving an F1 car ? > That doesn't stike you as sad ? I already do... why is this hobby any more sad than any other? -Why, e.g., is golf any cooler? -Answer: perception by narrowminded people. I'm sure driving the F1 car would be quite an experience (even if it's de-tuned and watered down, which it is). I'm sure it's something only a few of those who can afford it would actually choose to do. From what I've read about it it's also a very short experience, one, although fondly remembered, that leaves nothing but a few snapshots or a bit of home video and a story which bores friends and relatives to tears. Hypothetically speaking (in reality I might do both), if it were either/or it becomes a matter of which would give me most enjoyment/longlevity balance for the amount of cash I have to spend. In which case the game would win, no question. Look, if you don't understand the appeal of simracing, why are you even involved in this thread? > > <snip> > Sounds more like the Wests have discovered a bunch of suckers > who will not only send them mail orders for loads 'a' money, > but will continue to do so for how ever long they want. > No wonder their ISP is joker.com How is this different from any successful game series? -Crammond still sells shedloads of his GPx series, eventhough they stopped being state of the art in 1996. Are the poeple who buy those suckers? -No, they just enjoy this particular game series. If the Wests manage to produce something I like, I will send them money and I will continue to do so as long as they continue to improve the concept. Financial status permitting, of course. Jan. =---

"redTed" wrote: > > Sure... if having disposable income is sad, then my life is sad.There's a > > guy in Sweden who owns a couple F1 cars and let's people drive themat about > > $1200 a pop. Getting there, accomodation and back would cost about a3rd of > > that again. I've seriously considered doing this, so why wouldn't Ibuy WRL > > provided the demo convinces me it's good? 10 laps (or whatever itis) in an > > F1 car or a 100laps+ a week for as long as I see fit? Easy choice. > > You would seriously play a game that simulates(lol)driving an F1 carthan actually driving > an F1 car ? > That doesn't stike you as sad ? You miss more points than I miss apexes... > > The Wests have, at the very least, discovered a niche market whichhas a > > definate need for a specific product and can afford to buy anon-mass > > produced solution: people who treat simracing as a hobby. If theymanage to > > cater for this market I'm sure there will be professional interestand, if > > they don't under or overprice their product they will see a handsomereturn. > > Sounds more like the Wests have discovered a bunch of suckers who willnot only send them > mail orders for loads 'a' money, but will continue to do so for however long they want. > No wonder their ISP is joker.com Yep, seems like all enthusiast hobbies are just a waste of money

> > Look, if you don't understand the appeal of simracing, why are you even > involved in this thread? >Of course I understand the appeal, that's why I play them. The emphasis is on the word "play". I don't understand the serious nature some of you guy's take whenever a new post appears to be having a joke at the expense of WSC/RL or the Wests. It's a bit out of proportion in my opinion.

"Tony Rickard" wrote... > "redTed" wrote: > > <snip> > > You miss more points than I miss apexes... LOL! -damn, I wish I thought of that one. ;-) Jan. =---

> > You miss more points than I miss apexes... > Jan gave his opinion that he would rather spend a fortune on a computer game rather than spending a fortune actually driving an F1 car. I disagree. What points were missed ? Apart from you not reading the post properly ? People like you always vaguely refer to others not "getting it"or"missing the point", when in truth, you can't exactly explain why you are obsessive and humourless about your hobby.

"redTed" wrote: > What points were missed ? Apart from you not reading the post properly? People like you > always vaguely refer to others not "getting it"or"missing the point",when in truth, you > can't exactly explain why you are obsessive and humourless about yourhobby. To be honest I thought you had missed Jan's point completely - until I reread it. Shows how journalists can twist things. Jan said: " There's a guy in Sweden who owns a couple F1 cars and let's people drive them at about $1200 a pop. Getting there, accomodation and back would cost about a 3rd of that again. I've seriously considered doing this, so why wouldn't I buy WRL provided the demo convinces me it's good?" Therefore, if he is prepared to pay $1600 to drive an F1 car then why wouldn't he be prepared to spend $100 on a sim. Both are enthusiast "extravagences" Seemed a clear point to me. Of course I chose to ignore the line "10 laps (or whatever it is) in an F1 car or a 100laps+ a week for as long as I see fit? Easy choice." So there is one less apex for me to miss. I guess the point "people like us" think you are missing throughout these threads is that a sim could be different from the standard products that fill the shelves of EB, because the target audience and business model is different. In the past to create major enhances in terms of graphics, sound, gameplay and "feel" required less man hours as sim development was in its infancy. Now it has matured to make a significant improvement takes a lot more time, which publishers cannot afford within their business model. So we see small improvements beng regularly shipped. To get to the next generation sim may require a different approach. Therefore, we firmly believe the $100 sim will not be just like another EA update. Tony

"redTed" wrote...

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> > <snip> > > Jan gave his opinion that he would rather spend a fortune > on a computer game rather than spending a fortune actually > driving an F1 car. > > I disagree.

Hold on... this is starting to paint an unjust picture of Tony's driving! ;-) You didn't just disagree and bring forward your argument for driving the F1 car instead of the game. You passed judgement on the concept. > What points were missed ? Apart from you not reading the > post properly ? People like you always vaguely refer to > others not "getting it" or "missing the point", when in > truth, you can't exactly explain why you are obsessive > and humourless about your hobby. WHOOOOOOSH... there goes another one. You can't explain why it's abnormal to be as serious about it as "we" are either. <g> Actually, I have given this some thought. My league, the GPVL, used have a philosophy major competing in it (who happened to live nearby) and he did ask me some very probing questions with regard to my/our attitude and motivation, albeit a lot more eloquently. The only resolve I was able to come to was that I really enjoy (online) simracing and I want to keep doing it. This implies I must have a mechanism to deal with disappointment and frustration, which might otherwise cause me to abandon this pursuit. I do this by being a serious "student of the game", constantly analyzing, learning and preparing myself to do better. I set myself goals other than the outcome of the races and therefore am usually able to rise above most things that happen in online races; able to take away something positive or at least constructive from every race, regardless of what transpired. It seems to work as I'm still here doing my stuff after 8 years and I see no immediate reason to quit either. I've seen a lot of more casual contenders (some much more talented than I am) fall by the wayside. On another note... if $2000 is a lot of money to spend on a hobby to you, then that's your prerogative. It does mean, however, you're out of the high-end racing simulation market, IMO. Jan. =---

>snip< > > WHOOOOOOSH... there goes another one. You can't explain why it's abnormal to > be as serious about it as "we" are either. <g> lol..I was asking YOU to explain , not duck the issue. > > On another note... if $2000 is a lot of money to spend on a hobby to you, > then that's your prerogative. It does mean, however, you're out of the > high-end racing simulation market, IMO. > >bits snipped(sorry)< I guess the PC is my hobby of the moment, and I wouldn't be adverse in spending that sort of dosh upgrading or buying new gear, including peripherals like wheels and pedals etc, but I'm damn sure I could not justify spending that on software. Hi-Fi is my main hobby. And I've spent loads more on that than I ever will on a PC, but I'll never spend �2000 on one single album or CD. So if that takes me out of the serious sim racers bracket, so be it. I know I won't be alone.

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> "redTed" wrote... > > <snip> > > You would seriously play a game that simulates(lol) > > driving an F1 car than actually driving an F1 car ? > > That doesn't stike you as sad ? > > I already do... why is this hobby any more sad than any other? -Why, e.g., > is golf any cooler?

Because it is expensive. > -Answer: perception by narrowminded people. Bah. > I'm sure driving the F1 car would be quite an experience (even if it's > de-tuned and watered down, which it is). I'm sure it's something only a few > of those who can afford it would actually choose to do. From what I've read > about it it's also a very short experience, one, although fondly remembered, > that leaves nothing but a few snapshots or a bit of home video and a story > which bores friends and relatives to tears. But it is expensive (for what you get) so it is cooler. I'm only partially joking here. Being able to spend a lot of money on something that is just an hobby is just one way of getting ahead in the ol' procreation game. Why else would people buy ferraris only to drive them on the street when they can go racing in a go-kart for a fraction of the price? -- -asbjxrn

"Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad" wrote... > "Jan Verschueren" writes: > > > <snip> > > I already do... why is this hobby any more sad than > > any other? -Why, e.g., is golf any cooler? > > Because it is expensive. Judging by the initial reports on WRL, it won't be more expensive for much longer! ;-) > > -Answer: perception by narrowminded people. > > Bah. LOL.

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> > I'm sure driving the F1 car would be quite an experience > > <snip> > But it is expensive (for what you get) so it is cooler. > > I'm only partially joking here. Being able to spend a lot > of money on something that is just an hobby is just one > way of getting ahead in the ol' procreation game. Why else > would people buy ferraris only to drive them on the street > when they can go racing in a go-kart for a fraction of the > price?

Point taken... although I can see the appeal of being able to completely obliterate those posers in BMW Z3's. ;-) Jan. =---

. > > > > Ask yourself why Pablo Montoya enjoys Sim racing? > > let me think..maybe it's because he likes playing computer games ? Likelots of other > people . Or do you reckon he is "testing" setups? LOL > Pablo Montoya enjoys Sim racing for entertainment. When he gets real he drive a real Williams. He enjoys that too. Nigel

In article <agomeq$ns1mf$[email hidden]>, "redTed" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>And why would I pay �100's of pounds for something that, if it ever appears, >will most >likely be "JUST ANOTHER COMPUTER GAME" ? I'll pay � 34.99....max. And only >if it's any >good. As it stands, from what I've seen on the West's fantasy page, I will >not be able to >afford it.. Can you understand this ? Or is your life so sad that you can >afford >extravagancies like this ?

Actually, I'd think that being able to spend $100's on a computer game means you're doing SOMETHING right. I sure in hell couldn't afford it... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.