Read this everyone!

http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd35b1124 33&act=ST&f=1&t=224&st=0&#entry3085 This should answer a few of your questions. Thanks, Alex

OK? "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qp3Y8.2344$[email hidden]... >http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd35b1124

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> 33&act=ST&f=1&t=224&st=0&#entry3085 > > This should answer a few of your questions. > > Thanks, > Alex > >

OK? http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd...

"Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qp3Y8.2344$[email hidden]... > http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd35b1124 > 33&act=ST&f=1&t=224&st=0&#entry3085 > > This should answer a few of your questions. >That certainly clears things up. �100 for 1 tack and 1 car + extra payments for all sorts of extras including beta testing ! So what extra's do you get ? Some sky ? A few spectators ? A bridge ? The list is endless. What about the demo ? Is that free ? I'm dying to see the bandwagon jumpers reaching for their blankety-blank cheque books and pens. How can a product that costs so much be crap ? One thing is for sure, if it sells in the quantity they hope for at the price they state, they won't be filing for insolvency again !

I went to the Goodwood photos thread and found out where some of the missing RASCAR drivers were today. :-) David G Fisher "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qp3Y8.2344$[email hidden]... >http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd35b1124

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> 33&act=ST&f=1&t=224&st=0&#entry3085 > > This should answer a few of your questions. > > Thanks, > Alex > >

> That certainly clears things up. �100 for 1 tack and 1 car + extrapayments for all sorts > of extras including beta testing ! If you beta test that will be deducted from what you pay for the game. Hopefully it isn't that much though, I was a little dissapointed with that figure :( > So what extra's do you get ? Some sky ? A few spectators ? A bridge ? Thelist is > endless. What about the demo ? Is that free ? I have the same question about the demo > I'm dying to see the bandwagon jumpers reaching for their blankety-blankcheque books and > pens. How can a product that costs so much be crap ? One thing is forsure, if it sells > in the quantity they hope for at the price they state, they won't befiling for insolvency > again ! Bandwagon jumpers? I hardly think following something for year would be jumping on the bandwagon. Hopefully they'll sell it for more like 70 pounds, instead of 100 which is 150USD, bleh. Still, can't wait for this sim! Alex

redTed wrote:

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> "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:qp3Y8.2344$[email hidden]... > > That certainly clears things up. �100 for 1 tack and 1 car + extra payments for all sorts > of extras including beta testing ! > So what extra's do you get ? Some sky ? A few spectators ? A bridge ? The list is > endless. What about the demo ? Is that free ?

The demo is free. For me to poop on! I kid, I kid.

"Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qp3Y8.2344$[email hidden]... >http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd35b1124 > 33&act=ST&f=1&t=224&st=0&#entry3085 > > This should answer a few of your questions. Thanks, Alex. Sounds promising! Malc.

"Jeffrey3456" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:agqq8l$o8tnb$[email hidden]...

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> > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag > news:qP3Y8.184713$[email hidden]... > > I went to the Goodwood photos thread and found out where some of the > missing > > RASCAR drivers were today. :-) > > > > David G Fisher > > Now where is that thread? TIA >

In the "Goodwood Photos" thread is this link http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread...0281#post310281 with the photos. David G Fisher

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:qP3Y8.184713$[email hidden]... > I went to the Goodwood photos thread and found out where some of themissing > RASCAR drivers were today. :-) > > David G Fisher Now where is that thread? TIA

On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 00:16:22 GMT, "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote: >http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd35b1124 >33&act=ST&f=1&t=224&st=0&#entry3085 > >This should answer a few of your questions. There's no way I'd pay $150 for a work-in-progress with 1 car and 1 track. I'd pay 2 to 3 times that for a finished product. Possibly more. I love the Westies, but I'm going to have to pass until at least some of the features are done. As it stands, what they're releasing sounds like one of the earliest Racer builds. Jason

$155 ? For initial basics? They are out of their friggin' minds. -Larry "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qp3Y8.2344$[email hidden]... >http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd35b1124

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> 33&act=ST&f=1&t=224&st=0&#entry3085 > > This should answer a few of your questions. > > Thanks, > Alex > >

thanks! "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:Pd6Y8.130839$[email hidden]...

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> > "Jeffrey3456" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:agqq8l$o8tnb$[email hidden]... > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > news:qP3Y8.184713$[email hidden]... > > > I went to the Goodwood photos thread and found out where some of the > > missing > > > RASCAR drivers were today. :-) > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > Now where is that thread? TIA > > > > In the "Goodwood Photos" thread is this link > http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread...0281#post310281 with the > photos. > > David G Fisher > >

On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 01:42:09 +0100, "redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote: >That certainly clears things up. �100 for 1 tack and 1 car + extra payments for all sorts >of extras including beta testing ! >So what extra's do you get ? Some sky ? A few spectators ? A bridge ? The list is >endless. What about the demo ? Is that free ? If RL is going to be as good as they promise, I sure as hell am willing to pay that amount of money for the core program, and pay more money for extra cars & tracks. I think however that only a small group of people are willing to pay that much money for only 1 car and track, it doesn't seem like a really good idea to make the basic price that high.. Even here on RAS, a group of simracing freak, not everyone is willing to pay that much money. If the core program is that good, I think they can make so much more money by selling lots of copies of the core program at a normal price, and THEN earn the real money with all the addons. Basicly like Playstation and Nintendo work.. they don't earn the money with the consoles themselves, but with the ridiculously high priced games. Andre

"This has not been decided as it depends very much on predicted sales, which in turn depend on the response from the community. The more of us who buy into the concept the cheaper it will be." Building software based on such a lax/speculative pricing structure is an accident waiting to happen IMHO. "They test on a P3 733 with V5" Why?? Could they not find an older slower PC and video card to use? Why not optimize the game for newer cards with better features for rendering and shading? "I didn't push this biggie. Very few products are done on time and they are not stupid, so we are not going to get an answer to this yet IMO. " Only products with a poor design spec and project plan fail to meet deadlines. Not having a target date in place leads to issues of code bloat and feature creep that can keep a product shipping for months. "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qp3Y8.2344$[email hidden]... >http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd35b1124

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> 33&act=ST&f=1&t=224&st=0&#entry3085 > > This should answer a few of your questions. > > Thanks, > Alex > >

> I think however that only a small group of people are willing to pay > that much money for only 1 car and track, it doesn't seem like a > really good idea to make the basic price that high.. Even here on RAS, > a group of simracing freak, not everyone is willing to pay that much > money. ><snip> You got that right, 100 GBP turns into $240 CAD, plus 15% tax, plus shipping. That quickly turns into almost $300 CAD.... If that's the way it goes, I won't be getting RL. I think the Wests need to rethink the distribution/price model. -- Edward Commissioner Middle-Aged Racers Association (MARA)

<<File not found>> A harbinger? "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Pd6Y8.130839$[email hidden]...

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> > "Jeffrey3456" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:agqq8l$o8tnb$[email hidden]... > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag > > news:qP3Y8.184713$[email hidden]... > > > I went to the Goodwood photos thread and found out where some of the > > missing > > > RASCAR drivers were today. :-) > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > Now where is that thread? TIA > > > > In the "Goodwood Photos" thread is this link > http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread...0281#post310281 with the > photos. > > David G Fisher > >

As I understand the description in the thread they talk about core features being distributed as free add-ons = patches. Does that mean you buy one car and one track with a physics model that's not yet fully features, or with other core features missing or being incomplete/not fully implemented? The one-car approach is ok, all you need for a racing series is one car. So you buy one car per year, no prob with that. However, it would be nice to be able to test drive the cars before making a buying decision, because then you'll be stuck with that car for an entire racing season and beforehand you have no idea whether you like it or not. If this is to be a professional simulation, then test driving the cars before buying them is a must. I also think that no matter how good the physics are, for $200.- I expect more than just one track and a perhaps basic feature set with perhaps even partially unfinished features. Maybe it would be a better idea to sell the core modules at prices a greater community is willing to pay, and sell only specialised modules designed for professionals, like the wind tunnel, at 'professional' rates. Then again, who knows what they were intending to charge for these modules anyway :-) I am also not so sure about the so-called beta test approach. It is of course an honour to participate in a project as ambitious as for example GPL or RL, but detailed testing can be hard work. I am not sure making the testers pay is a guarantee for making them work as hard and diligently as necessary to eliminate the more hidden issues such programs usually have... Achim

"redTed" wrote... > <snip> > That certainly clears things up. �100 for 1 tack and 1 car + > extra payments for all sorts of extras including beta testing ! > So what extra's do you get ? Some sky ? A few spectators ? A > bridge ? The list is endless. What about the demo ? Is that > free ? While a fairly dim view, you do have a point. Like I said, a non-mass produced solution will come at a price. I have accepted this fact and have been campaigning for established developers to go down that route for a long time. This is not a problem as such from my point of view, but this "funding development as we go along" approach relies on enough people buying into the concept and exercising the patience for you to finish the "add-ons". For me to be comfortable with this scenario I would have to see much more of a WRL community than there is now develop (i.e. less negativity) before buying into this concept. I suspect a lot of others feel the same way so there's a bit of a catch 22 developing here, unless the Wests can come up with some kind of guarantee which would not be invalidated by their business failing. Otherwise I'd feel more comfortable being asked to venture x-amount of capital on the developement of a fairly complete game, for a possible return on my investment. Same thing basically, but a lot more straightforward. > I'm dying to see the bandwagon jumpers reaching for their > blankety-blank cheque books and pens. How can a product > that costs so much be crap ? One thing is for sure, if it > sells in the quantity they hope for at the price they > state, they won't be filing for insolvency again ! True, 5000 copies at 100 quid each equals half a million pounds. Nice development fund, provided they're not over their ears in debt already. That said, I wouldn't mind them doing well of the game if it lives up to their expectations. I will buy into the beta testing and see what it's really like. After all, one car / one track doesn't prove a hell of a lot. If it works on the simulation front and they manage to convince me they can do the multiplayer and other stuff I will risk buying the game. Depending on what level of disclosure is allowed to the beta testers I will report my findings. If the Wests deserve praise and support, they will get it. If they deserve a pasting, likewise. Like I've said before, let's let them have a fair crack at it and pass judgement on the quality of the product. Jan. =---

I saw that and wondered the same thing myself, why on earth would they be testing with a V5 especially? Maybe they figure that by the time it is out Nvidia will be utilizing the Voodoo technology? I guess testing with the P3 733 is not that big a deal, but I would sure think they ought to be testing with at least a processor in the 1 gig+ family. If this thing comes out when has been mentioned, the cards that are players will be Nvidia, Matrix, and ATI. I sure hope they at least do some testing with these, or perhaps they are relying on \ the pay to play beta testing program to do this for them. Don Burnette "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uxcY8.37266$[email hidden]... > > "This has not been decided as it depends very much on predicted sales,which

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> in turn depend on the response from the community. The more of us who buy > into the concept the cheaper it will be." > Building software based on such a lax/speculative pricing structure is an > accident waiting to happen IMHO. > > "They test on a P3 733 with V5" > Why?? Could they not find an older slower PC and video card to use? Why > not optimize the game for newer cards with better features for rendering

and > shading? > > "I didn't push this biggie. Very few products are done on time and theyare > not stupid, so we are not going to get an answer to this yet IMO. " > Only products with a poor design spec and project plan fail to meet > deadlines. Not having a target date in place leads to issues of codebloat

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> and feature creep that can keep a product shipping for months. > > > "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:qp3Y8.2344$[email hidden]... > > >

http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd35b1124

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> > 33&act=ST&f=1&t=224&st=0&#entry3085 > > > > This should answer a few of your questions. > > > > Thanks, > > Alex > > > > > >

Pay beta programs rarely work. You end up getting a bunch of hard core supporters that will not be as critical as a mass market beta or a dedicated unbiased testing group. "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:i5fY8.136320$[email hidden]... > I saw that and wondered the same thing myself, why on earth would they be > testing with a V5 especially? Maybe they figure that by the time it is out > Nvidia will be utilizing the Voodoo technology? I guess testing with theP3 > 733 is not that big a deal, but I would sure think they ought to betesting > with at least a processor in the 1 gig+ family. > If this thing comes out when has been mentioned, the cards that areplayers

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> will be Nvidia, Matrix, and ATI. I sure hope they at least do some testing > with these, or perhaps they are relying on \ the pay to play beta testing > program to do this for them. > > Don Burnette > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:uxcY8.37266$[email hidden]... > > > > "This has not been decided as it depends very much on predicted sales, > which > > in turn depend on the response from the community. The more of us who

buy > > into the concept the cheaper it will be." > > Building software based on such a lax/speculative pricing structure isan > > accident waiting to happen IMHO. > > > > "They test on a P3 733 with V5" > > Why?? Could they not find an older slower PC and video card to use?Why

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> > not optimize the game for newer cards with better features for rendering > and > > shading? > > > > "I didn't push this biggie. Very few products are done on time and they > are > > not stupid, so we are not going to get an answer to this yet IMO. " > > Only products with a poor design spec and project plan fail to meet > > deadlines. Not having a target date in place leads to issues of code > bloat > > and feature creep that can keep a product shipping for months. > > > > > > "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:qp3Y8.2344$[email hidden]... > > > > > >

http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd35b1124

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> > > 33&act=ST&f=1&t=224&st=0&#entry3085 > > > > > > This should answer a few of your questions. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > >

I think you are right but on the other hand... If the extra's are going to be expensive, Why would I want to purchase all of them or even a few? Provided the price for the core does end up being $150, I'll buy that even if it means selling a few odds and ends for the quick cash needed. If the extra's are $50-$75 or less each, I'd buy as many as I could and continue to purchase them as needed, and even when not needed;-) -- DAMN IT! Someone set up a LAN event in or near the Fingerlakes region of NY > > If RL is going to be as good as they promise, I sure as hell am > willing to pay that amount of money for the core program, and pay more > money for extra cars & tracks. > > I think however that only a small group of people are willing to pay > that much money for only 1 car and track, it doesn't seem like a > really good idea to make the basic price that high.. Even here on RAS, > a group of simracing freak, not everyone is willing to pay that much > money. > > If the core program is that good, I think they can make so much more > money by selling lots of copies of the core program at a normal price, > and THEN earn the real money with all the addons. > > Basicly like Playstation and Nintendo work.. they don't earn the money > with the consoles themselves, but with the ridiculously high priced > games. > > Andre

Michael Barlow wrote: > I think you are right but on the other hand... If the extra's are going > to be expensive, Why would I want to purchase all of them or even a few? > Provided the price for the core does end up being $150, I'll buy that even > if it means selling a few odds and ends for the quick cash needed. If the > extra's are $50-$75 or less each, I'd buy as many as I could and continue > to purchase them as needed, and even when not needed;-) And what will the differing mixes of accessory packs do to the multiplayer aspect? They may end up not so "optional" after all in that sense. -- Fester

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Michael Barlow wrote: > > I think you are right but on the other hand... If the extra's aregoing > > to be expensive, Why would I want to purchase all of them or even a few? > > Provided the price for the core does end up being $150, I'll buy thateven > > if it means selling a few odds and ends for the quick cash needed. Ifthe > > extra's are $50-$75 or less each, I'd buy as many as I could andcontinue

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> > to purchase them as needed, and even when not needed;-) > > > And what will the differing mixes of accessory packs do to the > multiplayer aspect? They may end up not so "optional" after all in that > sense. > > -- > > Fester >

That is where leagues will come into play. I'm sure some leagues will support all add-ons and demand their users do likewise. Others will choose a more narrow set of features. It would be confusing tho for open pickup races if certain expansion paks upgrade performance or increase the difficulty. (do I smell an online handicapping system??) dave henrie

I get the impression you've made up your mind on this before reading the answers - see below : ----- Original Message ----- From: "Schooner" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Read this everyone! > > "This has not been decided as it depends very much on predicted sales,which > in turn depend on the response from the community. The more of us who buy > into the concept the cheaper it will be." > Building software based on such a lax/speculative pricing structure is an > accident waiting to happen IMHO. > I didn't say what the pricing structure was - just that if more of us buy into the concept now then they will set a lower price as they can expect larger sales. > "They test on a P3 733 with V5" > Why?? Could they not find an older slower PC and video card to use? Why > not optimize the game for newer cards with better features for renderingand > shading? Which do you want? Either you want the thing to run on lower spec hardware or you want it to optimised for the best cars. Its hardly likely to do both now is it? That spec seems a pretty good compromise in that it represents a lower speed system without sacrificing basic funcitionality because a low end system wouldn't provide it. > > "I didn't push this biggie. Very few products are done on time and theyare > not stupid, so we are not going to get an answer to this yet IMO. " > Only products with a poor design spec and project plan fail to meet > deadlines. Not having a target date in place leads to issues of codebloat > and feature creep that can keep a product shipping for months. Did I say there was no target date? You keep refering to what they tell us as if thats all they know, but of course thats not the case. Your comments sound like you are involved in software - do you really tell all your customers exactly when your products will be ready? Paul > > > "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:qp3Y8.2344$[email hidden]... > > >http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd35b1124

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> > 33&act=ST&f=1&t=224&st=0&#entry3085 > > > > This should answer a few of your questions. > > > > Thanks, > > Alex > > > > > >

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in

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> The one-car approach is ok, all you need for a racing series is one > car. So you buy one car per year, no prob with that. However, it would > be nice to be able to test drive the cars before making a buying > decision, because then you'll be stuck with that car for an entire > racing season and beforehand you have no idea whether you like it or > not. If this is to be a professional simulation, then test driving the > cars before buying them is a must.

Look at it this way, you only need a "Type 49 '67 Locust" and a track called "Munzo" and with internet multiplayer bundled, most of VROC can move across to WRL overnight ;o) Just kidding. �100 is at the limit of what I'd pay, but then I'm looking at boxes for: F1RC F1-2001 Rally Trophy All of which are uninstalled and never got used even a fraction as much as GPL and N4/N2002, so in perspective, �100 isn't huge, but I'd certainly rather it was �70-�80. cheers John

You'll want a car that's competitive and matches your driving style and personal preferences. Maybe even the selection of tracks you wish to race on. If this is to be a realistic model, as a team owner you'll need to have a way of test driving a car before buying it. I btw wasn't even thinking of F1 cars, but of prototypes, Touring cars, Sports cars etc., where the choice maybe isn't always as clear as in the Lotus' case. Achim "JM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > The one-car approach is ok, all you need for a racing series is one > > car. So you buy one car per year, no prob with that. However, it would > > be nice to be able to test drive the cars before making a buying > > decision, because then you'll be stuck with that car for an entire > > racing season and beforehand you have no idea whether you like it or > > not. If this is to be a professional simulation, then test driving the > > cars before buying them is a must. > > Look at it this way, you only need a "Type 49 '67 Locust" and a track > called "Munzo" and with internet multiplayer bundled, most of VROC can

move

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> across to WRL overnight ;o) > > Just kidding. �100 is at the limit of what I'd pay, but then I'm looking > at boxes for: > > F1RC > F1-2001 > Rally Trophy > > All of which are uninstalled and never got used even a fraction as much as > GPL and N4/N2002, so in perspective, �100 isn't huge, but I'd certainly > rather it was �70-�80. > > cheers > John

>"Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote > The demo is free. For me to poop on! I kid, I kid. Hehe it's the "I kid, I kid" that differentiates the real hardcore Triumph fan from the bandwagon jumper ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> The demo is free. For me to poop on! I kid, I kid. Hehe it's the "I kid, I kid" that differentiates the real *** Triumph fan from the bandwagon jumper ;-) -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- [link lost in import] -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote > The one-car approach is ok, all you need for a racing series is one car.So > you buy one car per year, no prob with that. You really think people are going to only want 4 cars after 4 year of racing the same sim on the same singl) track ???? All those countdown car pictures.. all lies... -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

In article <[email hidden]>, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> writes: >And what will the differing mixes of accessory packs do to the >multiplayer aspect? They may end up not so "optional" after all in that >sense. Planned obsolescence? That would SUCK... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <MXiY8.2829$[email hidden]>, "Paul Harrington" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>> "They test on a P3 733 with V5" >> Why?? Could they not find an older slower PC and video card to use? Why >> not optimize the game for newer cards with better features for rendering >and >> shading? > >Which do you want? Either you want the thing to run on lower spec hardware >or you want it to optimised for the best cars. Its hardly likely to do both >now is it? That spec seems a pretty good compromise in that it represents a >lower speed system without sacrificing basic funcitionality because a low >end system wouldn't provide it.

I've noticed that the people with newer systems complain that something doesn't use all the features of their new Whiz-Bang 4000 CPU/video combo. They tend to taunt people with older, not as powerful systems to upgrade(under the guise of 'progress') - finances be damned. The people with older systems tend to wonder why ANYONE wants their system to be able to calculate the individual trajectory for every raindrop in T1 at Mosport... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote > From N1 to N2002, ICR1, ICR2, GP1 to GP 4, you always drive the same car - Fair point. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

There's quite a difference between cars in sims like F1RC and F12002. In RC2000 you had many different cars to drive. That doesn't really matter anyway. Compared to real life race car driving, sims kind of.........suck. :-) We only do this because we can't do the other. Why would I want to be limited by the exact same constraints as real life? One car a year? Life's a little too short for that in my virtual reality world. Might as well charge me $250,000,000 to run a season with Ferrari in F120002 then. :-) David G Fisher "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:agt0u9$odf0s$[email hidden]...

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> From N1 to N2002, ICR1, ICR2, GP1 to GP 4, you always drive the same car - > you haven't even got a choice, except for a slightly different design when > you change from 'Chevrolet' to 'Pontiac', from 'Penske' to 'Lola', from > 'Ferrari' to 'Benetton' - it's always the same car, just the painting is a > little different, and maybe minor details of the shape. > > Only GPL had truly different cars, but in GPL online leagues, most drivers > used the same car throughout an entire season - many leagues even required > that. > > Also, it's realistic. In real racing, you drive or drove an Opel Astra or > Mercedes, a Porsche 917 or the Lotus 49, all season long because a

contract

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> binds or bound you to that team. > > Therefor, buying one new car every year for me is ok. It's none different > from what we've always had in in our sims, and it's realistic, too. > > Achim > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:r4nY8.330$[email hidden]... > > >"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > The one-car approach is ok, all you need for a racing series is one

car.

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> > So > > > you buy one car per year, no prob with that. > > > > You really think people are going to only want 4 cars after 4 year of > racing > > the same sim on the same singl) track ???? > > > > > > All those countdown car pictures.. all lies... > >

<snip> >Might as well charge me $250,000,000 to run a season with > Ferrari in F120002 then. :-) > > David G Fisher > Gonna get there in that time machine you were talking about b4? Can I go? Nawwwww, on second thought, forget it, it might freeze up for 3 sec & then where (when?) would I be? ;-) Brian

"B.Farmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VcoY8.21433$[email hidden]...

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> <snip> > > >Might as well charge me $250,000,000 to run a season with > > Ferrari in F120002 then. :-) > > > > David G Fisher > > > > Gonna get there in that time machine you were talking about b4? Can I go? > > Nawwwww, on second thought, forget it, it might freeze up for 3 sec &

then > where (when?) would I be? ;-) > > Brian Too bad Larry didn't have a freeze yesterday, you might have had a chance to finish third. RASCAR trash talk is on! :-) David G Fisher

From N1 to N2002, ICR1, ICR2, GP1 to GP 4, you always drive the same car - you haven't even got a choice, except for a slightly different design when you change from 'Chevrolet' to 'Pontiac', from 'Penske' to 'Lola', from 'Ferrari' to 'Benetton' - it's always the same car, just the painting is a little different, and maybe minor details of the shape. Only GPL had truly different cars, but in GPL online leagues, most drivers used the same car throughout an entire season - many leagues even required that. Also, it's realistic. In real racing, you drive or drove an Opel Astra or Mercedes, a Porsche 917 or the Lotus 49, all season long because a contract binds or bound you to that team. Therefor, buying one new car every year for me is ok. It's none different from what we've always had in in our sims, and it's realistic, too. Achim "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:r4nY8.330$[email hidden]... > >"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote > > The one-car approach is ok, all you need for a racing series is one car. > So > > you buy one car per year, no prob with that. > > You really think people are going to only want 4 cars after 4 year ofracing > the same sim on the same singl) track ???? > > > All those countdown car pictures.. all lies...

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%TnY8.340$[email hidden]... > >"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote > > From N1 to N2002, ICR1, ICR2, GP1 to GP 4, you always drive the samecar - > > Fair point. > But not entirely true. With the ICR sims, the Honda was blessed with top end power, the fords with an all-round power band and the Chevy/Mercedes had low end grunt. THe N1/N2/N99 had 3 distinct handling differences Ford had more downforce, Chevy less and Pontiac the most balanced. With N4/N2k2 they have virtually used the same chassis and engine characteristics which is ok because that is what Nascar is attempting to achieve anyhow...parity without using 100% exactly equal equipment. dave henrie

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... >If RL is going to be as good as they promise, I sure as hell am >willing to pay that amount of money for the core program, and pay more >money for extra cars & tracks. We've got our first confirmed sucker. Any more? -Tim

[email hidden] (The Enigmatic One) writes:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > >If RL is going to be as good as they promise, I sure as hell am > >willing to pay that amount of money for the core program, and pay more > >money for extra cars & tracks. > > We've got our first confirmed sucker. Any more?

Count me in. _ Mats Lofkvist [email hidden]

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in > With N4/N2k2 they have virtually used the same chassis and engine > characteristics which is ok because that is what Nascar is attempting > to achieve anyhow...parity without using 100% exactly equal equipment. > dave henrie On a related note, the commentator on the Busch Daytona race mentioned that a lot of the "chevy" teams were running pontiac bodyshells there for the aero advantage (which they can do because they're not "restricted" by manufacturer?). WC uses the same body shapes as Busch doesn't it? In which case, N2002 only has one car when it should have 4. Similar <> Equal. Has everyone here forgotten just how much FUN the original Papy Indy 500 was? (I played that for hundreds of hours on my Amiga). How many cars did it have? How many tracks did it have? Seriously... cheers John

Has Papy ever confirmed this? Because as far as I remember all differences between cars in Papy sims except GPL were purely down to what users thought they'd felt. I was one of those who kept speculating but in the end decided that there are no differences :-) Achim "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:35rY8.364026$[email hidden]...

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> > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:%TnY8.340$[email hidden]... > > >"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > From N1 to N2002, ICR1, ICR2, GP1 to GP 4, you always drive the same > car - > > > > Fair point. > > > But not entirely true. With the ICR sims, the Honda was blessed with > top end power, the fords with an all-round power band and the

Chevy/Mercedes

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> had low end grunt. > > THe N1/N2/N99 had 3 distinct handling differences Ford had more > downforce, Chevy less and Pontiac the most balanced. > > With N4/N2k2 they have virtually used the same chassis and engine > characteristics which is ok because that is what Nascar is attempting to > achieve anyhow...parity without using 100% exactly equal equipment. > dave henrie > > >

Practical considerations Dave. If you compete in a series, all you need is one car per season. Achim "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1ZnY8.199769$[email hidden]... > There's quite a difference between cars in sims like F1RC and F12002. In > RC2000 you had many different cars to drive. > > That doesn't really matter anyway. Compared to real life race car driving, > sims kind of.........suck. :-) We only do this because we can't do the > other. Why would I want to be limited by the exact same constraints asreal > life? One car a year? Life's a little too short for that in my virtual > reality world. Might as well charge me $250,000,000 to run a season with > Ferrari in F120002 then. :-) > > David G Fisher

On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 00:16:22 GMT, "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote: >http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd35b1124 >33&act=ST&f=1&t=224&st=0&#entry3085 > >This should answer a few of your questions. Just one question. Do they SERIOUSLY intend on shipping a $100+ sim with ONE car and ONE track? I mean, seriously? It would not only have to be better than every other sim ever made, it would have to blow them out of the water. It would have to make GPL and Nascar 4 look like arcade games by comparison. And even then it probably wouldn't sell.

On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:45:35 +0200, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote: >If the core program is that good, I think they can make so much more >money by selling lots of copies of the core program at a normal price, >and THEN earn the real money with all the addons. At one car and track, the "core program" IS the demo. The only possible way this can work is if that is free, and for a reasonable price ($40) you can upgrade to the quantity of content you'd get in a commercial game.

How dare you question! j/k "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uxcY8.37266$[email hidden]... > > "This has not been decided as it depends very much on predicted sales,which

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> in turn depend on the response from the community. The more of us who buy > into the concept the cheaper it will be." > Building software based on such a lax/speculative pricing structure is an > accident waiting to happen IMHO. > > "They test on a P3 733 with V5" > Why?? Could they not find an older slower PC and video card to use? Why > not optimize the game for newer cards with better features for rendering

and > shading? > > "I didn't push this biggie. Very few products are done on time and theyare > not stupid, so we are not going to get an answer to this yet IMO. " > Only products with a poor design spec and project plan fail to meet > deadlines. Not having a target date in place leads to issues of codebloat

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> and feature creep that can keep a product shipping for months. > > > "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:qp3Y8.2344$[email hidden]... > > >

http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd35b1124

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> > 33&act=ST&f=1&t=224&st=0&#entry3085 > > > > This should answer a few of your questions. > > > > Thanks, > > Alex > > > > > >

On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:45:35 +0200, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote: >Basicly like Playstation and Nintendo work.. they don't earn the money >with the consoles themselves... A myth. Only Microsoft loses money on console hardware.

Joachim Trensz wrote: > > Has Papy ever confirmed this? Because as far as I remember all differences > between cars in Papy sims except GPL were purely down to what users thought > they'd felt. I was one of those who kept speculating but in the end decided > that there are no differences :-) In N2/3 there was a difference between makes in the aero, could have been in N1 as well but that was before my interest in the Nx series, it was not however the same in all 3, in N2 I believe the FORD had better front end downforce but in N3 it was the Chevy....or something It was very noticeable if you had your setup tuned the last % and then forgot to change to the correct car before the race......got the T-shirt :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

<snip> >If RL is going to be as good as they promise, I sure as hell am > >willing to pay that amount of money for the core program, and pay more > >money for extra cars & tracks. > > We've got our first confirmed sucker. Any more? ><snip> And your point was?? If RL *isn't* going to be as good as they promise, only suckers would *not* buy it? Jon Andersen, scratching his head, trying to find out if he is a sucker or not

Joachim Trensz wrote: > > Has Papy ever confirmed this? ;-) RTFM !! I'm devastated that you don't trust me on this though Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Joachim Trensz wrote:

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> > You make me feel quilty ;-) > > AFAI remember btw the manual did say what it said in a way that you could > read it as saying those differences are in the sim, or not. Am I mistaken? > > Please understand me right, I'm not trying to be stubborn or a wisecrack. > But in my memory all this was a constant discussion without any hard > evidence, and Papy never said clearly yay or nay. But, I'm getting old, so > my memory mail fail me :-)

You *are* stubborn.....:-) I can't remember exactly, but I do seem to remember Eric B confirming this difference over on the "other" NG, but like you I'm getting older and the memory ain't what it used to be But I don't need a confirmation from a Papy employee on this :-), back on TEN I was part of one of the more dedicated teams when it came to working on setups and such, and there is no doubt that there was a difference between the different chassis, you could see it in the tire wear even if you didn't "feel" it, especially since we had to run very loose setups to combat the inherent understeer of the old physics model where you'd wear your front tires down and couldn't compensate for it by balancing the car on the throttle like you can in the current physics model, which meant that if you took a setup made for a Chevy and ran it with a FORD, it would swap ends on you, and the other way around you'd have understeer from hell Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Has Papy ever confirmed this? ;-) Achim "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Joachim Trensz wrote: > > > > Has Papy ever confirmed this? Because as far as I remember alldifferences > > between cars in Papy sims except GPL were purely down to what usersthought > > they'd felt. I was one of those who kept speculating but in the enddecided

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> > that there are no differences :-) > > In N2/3 there was a difference between makes in the aero, could have > been in N1 as well but that was before my interest in the Nx series, it > was not however the same in all 3, in N2 I believe the FORD had better > front end downforce but in N3 it was the Chevy....or something > > It was very noticeable if you had your setup tuned the last % and then > forgot to change to the correct car before the race......got the T-shirt > :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

You make me feel quilty ;-) AFAI remember btw the manual did say what it said in a way that you could read it as saying those differences are in the sim, or not. Am I mistaken? Please understand me right, I'm not trying to be stubborn or a wisecrack. But in my memory all this was a constant discussion without any hard evidence, and Papy never said clearly yay or nay. But, I'm getting old, so my memory mail fail me :-) Achim "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... ... > I'm devastated that you don't trust me on this though...

>"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote >Papy never said clearly yay or nay. They clearly said yay about Indy500, Icr1, N1, Icr2, N2, NR99 and finally N3 ;) Really, everybody knew about that, no? It's even in the game manuals iirc (except for the ones with fictional car manufacturers) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

If you're referring to what was in the manuals, AFAI remember that was, erm, interpretable :-) Achim "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VQMY8.605$[email hidden]... > >"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote > >Papy never said clearly yay or nay. > > > They clearly said yay about Indy500, Icr1, N1, Icr2, N2, NR99 and finallyN3 > ;) > > > > Really, everybody knew about that, no? It's even in the game manuals iirc > (except for the ones with fictional car manufacturers)

I can't believe anyone would pay that sort of money!!! But then I'm a confirmed philistine who is enjoying playing GP4 :)) "The Enigmatic One" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DPtY8.65183$[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > >If RL is going to be as good as they promise, I sure as hell am > >willing to pay that amount of money for the core program, and pay more > >money for extra cars & tracks. > > We've got our first confirmed sucker. Any more? > > > -Tim >