GPL - Silverstone

Been playing GPL for a few days - great sim! Getting my lap times down at Silverstone. Now into the 1.34's, but this feels like it's on the ragged edge. What's the key to getting really fast on this circuit? I always find Becketts hard, as it seems necessary to brake really early, otherwise you go in too deep and lose it. I'm driving the GP Lotus. Also, I don't know if anyone else has this, but there appears to be a 'glitch' at Abbey corner. When I'm racing AI cars the game will pause for a fraction. Always at Abbey, and regardless of how many other cars are around me. This can result in falling off the track so I always back off too much at this corner. -- Cpl Hicks

[email hidden] (Hicks) wrote on 22 Jul 2002:

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> Been playing GPL for a few days - great sim! > Getting my lap times down at Silverstone. Now into > the 1.34's, but this feels like it's on the ragged edge. > What's the key to getting really fast on this circuit? > I always find Becketts hard, as it seems necessary to > brake really early, otherwise you go in too deep and > lose it. > I'm driving the GP Lotus.

<Snip> Drive the Ferrari :-) Seriously, stop doing the modern-style "point'n'squirt" thing, and brake later and drift round pretty much all the corners, keeping a fair amounf of throttle on throughout. Forget a lot of what you know about simracing styles if all you know is modern F1... (BTW, you do have all the driver aids off, don't you? If not, turn them off!) -- "After all, a mere thousand yards... such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh. The GPL Scrapyard: http://www.btinternet.com/~gplscrapyard

-- The first ever pinball ezboard !! http://pub7.ezboard.com/bpinball > What's the key to getting really fast on this circuit? SLIDE SLIDE SLIDE !!!!!

"Hicks" wrote... > Been playing GPL for a few days <snip> > What's the key to getting really fast on this > circuit? a year of practice.<g> Seriously, don't worry about speed. GPL is a sim, not a game. So learn the tracks, get consistent, race other people, save the replays and watch how they do it. Develop your style and learn to adjust the setup of the cars to suit it (Richard Nunnini's pages). Speed will come as a side-effect of the learning process. Each time you improve your line or your technique, your times will come down as a result and then the cycle starts over. I bought "the game" september '98 and I'm still learning. Oh, and BTW, it's customary to announce yourself breaking the 1m30s barrier at Silverstone and Monza with a YASOMTA! -message (Yet Another Sub One Minute Thirty Announcement). ;-) > I always find Becketts hard, as it seems > necessary to brake really early, otherwise > you go in too deep and lose it. > I'm driving the GP Lotus. Stopping distances with the steel disks / non-composite pads are something you'll have to get used to. There is no real time to be found braking late in GPL. See also Maxx' GPLEGS package at http://www-personal.umich.edu/~epickett/gpl.html . The key to a good laptime at Silverstone, for me, is to get a good exit from Becketts and keep the speed up through Chapel. One doesn't have to move all the way back over to the right to do this, in my experience.

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> Also, I don't know if anyone else has this, > but there appears to be a 'glitch' at Abbey > corner. When I'm racing AI cars the game > will pause for a fraction. Always at Abbey, > and regardless of how many other cars > are around me. This can result in falling > off the track so I always back off too much > at this corner.

Can't help you here. Other's have complained about more regular pauses on this group. Try searching for "GPL stutters" on Google. Jan. =---

"David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (Hicks) wrote on 22 Jul 2002: > > > Been playing GPL for a few days - great sim! > > Getting my lap times down at Silverstone. Now into > > the 1.34's, but this feels like it's on the ragged edge. > > What's the key to getting really fast on this circuit? > > I always find Becketts hard, as it seems necessary to > > brake really early, otherwise you go in too deep and > > lose it. > > I'm driving the GP Lotus. > <Snip> > > Drive the Ferrari :-) Seriously, stop doing the modern-style > "point'n'squirt" thing, and brake later and drift round pretty much > all the corners, keeping a fair amounf of throttle on throughout. > Forget a lot of what you know about simracing styles if all you know > is modern F1...

Or the Cooper (Coventry). If you practice your racing line in a slower car, you'll hopefully find your technique will have improved when you go back to the Lotus. I'm not a huge fan of the gpl silverstone circuit, but good technique should get you down to 1:30.xx & after that it's just limited by your ability to control the car on the limit. I usually put the brake bias around 54% or 53% and trailbrake to the apex, then smoothly increase the throttle as I straighten out. It helps if the revs are fairly low in the second part of the corner (after the apex) to avoid fishtailing, so try a higher gear. hth, Malc.

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>> Also, I don't know if anyone else has this, but there appears to be >> a 'glitch' at Abbey corner. When I'm racing AI cars the game will >> pause for a fraction. Always at Abbey, and regardless of how many >> other cars are around me. This can result in falling off the track >> so I always back off too much at this corner. > Can't help you here. Other's have complained about more regular pauses on > this group. Try searching for "GPL stutters" on Google.

as this happens at the same spot each lap, its sounds to me like gpl is trying to load up the graphics visible at (or just past) that point onto the card, and there isn't enough room (memory) so it has to shuffle things around a bit at that point. this probably goes on all the way around the track, but abbey is where lots of buildings/grandstands come into view, and it'll be where you notice it most. try reducing the graphics settings (detail bias, track side objects -> many, turn off a few of the textures) and see if this helps. also try removing updated graphics packs (if you have any installed.) dr martin

David Buttery <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> > Drive the Ferrari :-) Seriously, stop doing the modern-style > "point'n'squirt" thing, and brake later and drift round pretty much > all the corners, keeping a fair amounf of throttle on throughout. > Forget a lot of what you know about simracing styles if all you know > is modern F1... > > (BTW, you do have all the driver aids off, don't you? If not, turn > them off!)

Yup. The mistakes are all mine. I guess my experiences with GPx are affecting me, where it's usually fatal to get the back end out, so I'm tending to go round corners 'on rails'. Strangely enough, I found the GP car easier to drive than the lower powered cars. I could not keep the trainer on the track. Plus your braking point is different for all 3 cars. -- Cpl Hicks

[email hidden] (Hicks) wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> David Buttery <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:<[email hidden]>... >> >> Drive the Ferrari :-) Seriously, stop doing the modern-style >> "point'n'squirt" thing, and brake later and drift round pretty much >> all the corners, keeping a fair amounf of throttle on throughout. >> Forget a lot of what you know about simracing styles if all you know >> is modern F1... >> >> (BTW, you do have all the driver aids off, don't you? If not, turn >> them off!) > > > Yup. The mistakes are all mine. > I guess my experiences with GPx are affecting me, where it's usually > fatal to get the back end out, so I'm tending to go round corners > 'on rails'.

Don't worry about the style, modern "point'n'squirt" is working pretty good, I got down to 1:28 without any drifting. Drifting is a bit faster, but that does not mean you have to learn to do it right away. It took me a lot of time and frustration to learn to drift and my advise is not to change your style until you get comfortable with the cars. > > Strangely enough, I found the GP car easier to drive than the lower > powered cars. I could not keep the trainer on the track. Plus your > braking point is different for all 3 cars.Yeah, exactly my feelings when I started GPL, I've also switched from GPx and couldn't drive anything except Lotus. Still it was feeling sluggish a bit. What setups do you drive btw? My favourite in the beginning was Wolfgang Woeger's collection for Lotus. Maybe you'll also like them. Good luck, Alex > > -- > Cpl Hicks >

Jan Verschueren wrote: Oh, and BTW, it's customary to announce yourself breaking the 1m30s barrier at Silverstone and Monza with a YASOMTA! -message (Yet Another Sub One Minute Thirty Announcement). ;-) Jan, Pardon the interruption in the topic, but YASOMTA! (Thanks for the bit of GPLore. Keep it coming.) My pb for Silverstone is 1:29.59; for Monza it's 1:29.37. Don't ask about rank; I'm still working on the 'Ring and Monaco. BTW, Hicks, I got my times by going sideways as often as possible! Jim

[email hidden] (alexti) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Don't worry about the style, modern "point'n'squirt" is working pretty > good, I got down to 1:28 without any drifting. Drifting is a bit faster, > but that does not mean you have to learn to do it right away. It took > me a lot of time and frustration to learn to drift and my advise is > not to change your style until you get comfortable with the cars. Well I don't know where I'm going to get 5 seconds from. Maybe I'm not being smooth enough on the brakes. I think the technique is to brake hard into a corner, then progressively lift off the brake.

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> > > > Strangely enough, I found the GP car easier to drive than the lower > > powered cars. I could not keep the trainer on the track. Plus your > > braking point is different for all 3 cars. > Yeah, exactly my feelings when I started GPL, I've also switched > from GPx and couldn't drive anything except Lotus. Still it was > feeling sluggish a bit. What setups do you drive btw? > My favourite in the beginning was Wolfgang Woeger's collection for > Lotus. Maybe you'll also like them. >

I've not really messed around with setups, but I did try the Lotus setup from LOR. One thing I did notice about my wheel is that the accelerator and brake are on the same axis. This means I can't apply them independantly. Is this going to limit me, and is it possible to put the brake on axis2? I'm using a TM Modena Pro. -- Cpl Hicks

"Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>setup from LOR. > > One thing I did notice about my wheel is that the accelerator and > brake are on the same axis. This means I can't apply them independantly. > Is this going to limit me, and is it possible to put the brake on axis2? > I'm using a TM Modena Pro. > > -- > Cpl Hicks

I have the Modena 360 (Non Pro) and yes you can have split axis. You have to use the Thrustmapper which will let you progrem the various buttons and axis. Elrikk

"elrikk" wrote... > <snip> > I have the Modena 360 (Non Pro) and yes you can > have split axis. > > You have to use the Thrustmapper which will let you > progrem the various buttons and axis. Use the utility to set program the split axis, but disable it during play. It will do strange things to your steering in GPL according to a member in my FV league. Jan. =---

"Hicks" wrote... > > <snip> > Well I don't know where I'm going to get 5 seconds from. > Maybe I'm not being smooth enough on the brakes. I think > the technique is to brake hard into a corner, then > progressively lift off the brake. The trick is indeed not "upsetting" the chassis.

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> > > <snip> > I've not really messed around with setups, but I did try > the Lotus setup from LOR. > > One thing I did notice about my wheel is that the > accelerator and brake are on the same axis. This > means I can't apply them independantly. Is this > going to limit me, and is it possible to put the > brake on axis2? I'm using a TM Modena Pro.

Not having split axis and driving RFB only will hinder you eventually, so the sooner you start with split axis and LFB, the better. Like elrikk pointed out, use Thrustmapper to configure your wheel, but don't leave the utility enabled/running while you race. Jan. =---

I wouldn't get seduced by alien's setups if I were you. Setups are best suited to personal driving styles. If you could already drive like an alien, you wouldn't need special setups. To ease yourself into the GPL Experience, I'd start with fairly stiff, forgiving setups. They don't have as much mechanical grip (and zero aero, for that matter), but they communicate a lot abt. what the car is doing (and they feel racy), so they're easier to control. As you get faster, you can wander into exotica like asymmetrical setups, low rolling resistance, unstable toe values, "stab saves," ultra-low shock settings (which force you to take a "set" each time you twirl the wheel, not saw away at it), and various NASCAR-inspired "stagger" disciplines. As Michael Hausknecht said, "Loose is fast." Most of what you're trying to accomplish with your setups is ameliorating the notorious Papy Push (without losing front-end authority). You need to find a setup that will allow you to rotate the car into the apex with judicious use of trail braking. And, no, at the limit, GPL is not a sim, it's a game. --Steve Smith "alexti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (Hicks) wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > David Buttery <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:<[email hidden]>... > >> > >> Drive the Ferrari :-) Seriously, stop doing the modern-style > >> "point'n'squirt" thing, and brake later and drift round pretty much > >> all the corners, keeping a fair amounf of throttle on throughout. > >> Forget a lot of what you know about simracing styles if all you know > >> is modern F1... > >> > >> (BTW, you do have all the driver aids off, don't you? If not, turn > >> them off!) > > > > > > Yup. The mistakes are all mine. > > I guess my experiences with GPx are affecting me, where it's usually > > fatal to get the back end out, so I'm tending to go round corners > > 'on rails'. > Don't worry about the style, modern "point'n'squirt" is working pretty > good, I got down to 1:28 without any drifting. Drifting is a bit faster, > but that does not mean you have to learn to do it right away. It took > me a lot of time and frustration to learn to drift and my advise is > not to change your style until you get comfortable with the cars. > > > > Strangely enough, I found the GP car easier to drive than the lower > > powered cars. I could not keep the trainer on the track. Plus your > > braking point is different for all 3 cars. > Yeah, exactly my feelings when I started GPL, I've also switched > from GPx and couldn't drive anything except Lotus. Still it was > feeling sluggish a bit. What setups do you drive btw? > My favourite in the beginning was Wolfgang Woeger's collection for > Lotus. Maybe you'll also like them. > > Good luck, > Alex > > > > -- > > Cpl Hicks > > >

The split axis are really useful during braking. Keeping a slight throttle during the braking, makes the car very stable, and will make it possible to break really hard in corners. Also if the rear breaks loose during last part of braking in a long corner you might want to apply a lot of gas while maintaining the break pedal to regain grip in the rear end. (technique very useful in N2002 with Looose setups ;-) Besides from getting the splitaxis working, the best tip I can give you is to get GPLAI, and make the AI drive slower. With the original AI, I push the car way to hard. With slower AI, I ride smoother, and much faster :-) /Carl "Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > [email hidden] (alexti) wrote in messagenews:<[email hidden]>...

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> > > Don't worry about the style, modern "point'n'squirt" is working pretty > > good, I got down to 1:28 without any drifting. Drifting is a bit faster, > > but that does not mean you have to learn to do it right away. It took > > me a lot of time and frustration to learn to drift and my advise is > > not to change your style until you get comfortable with the cars. > > Well I don't know where I'm going to get 5 seconds from. Maybe I'm not > being smooth enough on the brakes. I think the technique is to brake > hard into a corner, then progressively lift off the brake. > > > > > > > Strangely enough, I found the GP car easier to drive than the lower > > > powered cars. I could not keep the trainer on the track. Plus your > > > braking point is different for all 3 cars. > > Yeah, exactly my feelings when I started GPL, I've also switched > > from GPx and couldn't drive anything except Lotus. Still it was > > feeling sluggish a bit. What setups do you drive btw? > > My favourite in the beginning was Wolfgang Woeger's collection for > > Lotus. Maybe you'll also like them. > > > > I've not really messed around with setups, but I did try the Lotus > setup from LOR. > > One thing I did notice about my wheel is that the accelerator and > brake are on the same axis. This means I can't apply them independantly. > Is this going to limit me, and is it possible to put the brake on axis2? > I'm using a TM Modena Pro. > > -- > Cpl Hicks

In article <3d3bdf99$0$261$[email hidden]>, "Txl" <[email hidden]> writes: >> What's the key to getting really fast on this circuit? > > >SLIDE SLIDE SLIDE !!!!! I do - right off the track... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <Q9S_8.22571$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >"Hicks" wrote... >> Been playing GPL for a few days <snip> >> What's the key to getting really fast on this >> circuit? > >a year of practice.<g> I've had *3*... :-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:23:16 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >And, no, at the limit, GPL is not a sim, it's a game. Out of curiosity Steve, is it correct to assume that you're making this statement because of problems with the tire grip model when the car is experience high lateral loads? Jason

[email hidden] (Hicks) wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> [email hidden] (alexti) wrote in message > news:<[email hidden]>... > >> Don't worry about the style, modern "point'n'squirt" is working pretty >> good, I got down to 1:28 without any drifting. Drifting is a bit >> faster, but that does not mean you have to learn to do it right away. >> It took me a lot of time and frustration to learn to drift and my >> advise is not to change your style until you get comfortable with the >> cars. > > Well I don't know where I'm going to get 5 seconds from.

Just keep practicing... :) > Maybe I'm not > being smooth enough on the brakes. I think the technique is to brake > hard into a corner, then progressively lift off the brake.Not sure what you mean about lifting off. In modern F1 sims you're lifting off the brake progressively while still going in the straight line, because you're losing downforce. In GPL you don't have downforce, so you don't need to lift off until you start to turn in.

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> >> > >> > Strangely enough, I found the GP car easier to drive than the lower >> > powered cars. I could not keep the trainer on the track. Plus your >> > braking point is different for all 3 cars. >> Yeah, exactly my feelings when I started GPL, I've also switched >> from GPx and couldn't drive anything except Lotus. Still it was >> feeling sluggish a bit. What setups do you drive btw? >> My favourite in the beginning was Wolfgang Woeger's collection for >> Lotus. Maybe you'll also like them. >> > > I've not really messed around with setups, but I did try the Lotus > setup from LOR. > > One thing I did notice about my wheel is that the accelerator and > brake are on the same axis. This means I can't apply them > independantly. Is this going to limit me, and is it possible to put the > brake on axis2? I'm using a TM Modena Pro.

Do you right or left foot brake? Left foot braking is helpful even if you don't have split axis. Split axis starts to help if you use both brake and throttle at the same time. Typically during the transition in the corners, some aliens also keep throttle on while braking. I don't know if your wheel supports split-axis, but even if it doesn't you can rewire it yourself to make split-axis. It is not difficult. There're references on the net. Alex. > > -- > Cpl Hicks

Jason, No, it's the aliens' techniques that wouldn't fly in the RW; specifically, the simultaneous use of throttle and brakes. No RW car could take this kind of punishment for long. (When Rover was developing the turbine car for Le Mans, the test drivers discovered that the lap times were much improved by using the throttle to spool up the turbine--which went to something like 30,000 rpm--whilst still on the binders. The Rover engineers kept putting on bigger and bigger rotors, but in the end the problem could only be 'solved' by prohibiting the drivers from employing the practice.) Likewise, RW cars could never take the kind of abuse heaped on the engines, tires and transmissions the way aliens drive. If you look at footage of RW drivers of that era, and then at replays of aliens' laps, you'll immediately understand why the way the latter drive is much closer to Ridge Racer than Jim Clark. --Steve "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:23:16 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >And, no, at the limit, GPL is not a sim, it's a game. > > Out of curiosity Steve, is it correct to assume that you're making > this statement because of problems with the tire grip model when the > car is experience high lateral loads? > > Jason

On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:34:31 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>No, it's the aliens' techniques that wouldn't fly in the RW; specifically, >the simultaneous use of throttle and brakes. No RW car could take this kind >of punishment for long. (When Rover was developing the turbine car for Le >Mans, the test drivers discovered that the lap times were much improved by >using the throttle to spool up the turbine--which went to something like >30,000 rpm--whilst still on the binders. The Rover engineers kept putting >on bigger and bigger rotors, but in the end the problem could only be >'solved' by prohibiting the drivers from employing the practice.) Likewise, >RW cars could never take the kind of abuse heaped on the engines, tires and >transmissions the way aliens drive. If you look at footage of RW drivers of >that era, and then at replays of aliens' laps, you'll immediately understand >why the way the latter drive is much closer to Ridge Racer than Jim Clark.

Ahhhhh ok. I had assumed you were referring to the snippet on the Eaglewoman site. I've never attempted the simultaneous brake/throttle trick before but now I'm going to go put some time in because I'm curious. I'm feeling a lot less worse about my times using normal racing technique now. It's a shame Papy hasn't built abuse into their games yet, beyond a bit of engine and suspension damage in GPL. Assuming Racing Legends ever sees the light of day, ti's promising that one of the major features, according the website, is real punishment for abusing the car. I would love to see some alien rip their car apart before completing a full qual lap. Jason

"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I'm feeling a lot less worse about my times using normal racing > technique now. It's a shame Papy hasn't built abuse into their games > yet, beyond a bit of engine and suspension damage in GPL. > > Assuming Racing Legends ever sees the light of day, ti's promising > that one of the major features, according the website, is real > punishment for abusing the car. I would love to see some alien rip > their car apart before completing a full qual lap.

I'd have to agree with that. I left-foot brake because it's quicker, but I'd like to have brakes that can overheat & fade because it would force me to modify my driving style to account for it. Malc.

Jason, Neither Alison nor I subscribe to totally unrealistic techniques like the infamous "stab save" nor the simultaneous (and protracted) use of throttle & brakes. But. I've tried both, and admit to occasionally using the latter to put some weight on the front end if I feel it washing out. That's legit, by my standards. But the aliens practically never lift off the throttle and counter forward thrust with occasional dabs at the brake to transfer weight forward (and, in the middle of a turn, to the outside front wheel). You can try this yourself (it *is* addictive), but you've gotta move the brake bias way aft (52-54%) and either soften the front end (the average weight is much lighter driving this way) or stiffen the rear. Like driving loose, it feels unnatural at first, but you get used to it, like being somebody's wife in jail (I guess...). --Steve "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:34:31 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >No, it's the aliens' techniques that wouldn't fly in the RW;specifically, > >the simultaneous use of throttle and brakes. No RW car could take thiskind > >of punishment for long. (When Rover was developing the turbine car forLe > >Mans, the test drivers discovered that the lap times were much improvedby > >using the throttle to spool up the turbine--which went to something like > >30,000 rpm--whilst still on the binders. The Rover engineers keptputting > >on bigger and bigger rotors, but in the end the problem could only be > >'solved' by prohibiting the drivers from employing the practice.)Likewise, > >RW cars could never take the kind of abuse heaped on the engines, tiresand > >transmissions the way aliens drive. If you look at footage of RW driversof > >that era, and then at replays of aliens' laps, you'll immediatelyunderstand > >why the way the latter drive is much closer to Ridge Racer than JimClark.

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> > Ahhhhh ok. > > I had assumed you were referring to the snippet on the Eaglewoman > site. I've never attempted the simultaneous brake/throttle trick > before but now I'm going to go put some time in because I'm curious. > > I'm feeling a lot less worse about my times using normal racing > technique now. It's a shame Papy hasn't built abuse into their games > yet, beyond a bit of engine and suspension damage in GPL. > > Assuming Racing Legends ever sees the light of day, ti's promising > that one of the major features, according the website, is real > punishment for abusing the car. I would love to see some alien rip > their car apart before completing a full qual lap. > > Jason