"Short Shifting" - A Valuable Road Racing Learning Tool

[In an effort to encourage more "road racers" among sim drivers, especially in N2K2, I'm passing on some of the tools I learned from other drivers during my 10 years or so of active racing experience - particularly those that I found adapted well to sim racing. Last week I talked about driving the track backwards....same as a backwards " track walk." Here's another tool that I found to be invaluable to learn a new road course.] **Using Short Shifting To Learn New Road Courses** I first heard this term back in 1987 when I was driving for the BMW factory team in the SCCA Escort Endurance Pro Series. My co-driver, Andy Evans - a driver with considerably more experience than I at the time - taught this to me (and I have sense read about it - in one form or another - in many "how to" road racing books). We were running most of the road courses in North America that year and that included Mosport in Canada. Practically every race event, meant a brand new road course for me. Unlike in sim racing, I did not have the luxury of bending our race car several times on Thursday and Friday (practice sessions), while I learned the track. Funny how it works that way in real racing! .....lol..... But, learning a new road course quickly is not an easy thing to do for most drivers. You can't just "go slow"....because while that may give you the opportunity to see where the track goes....it does nothing to help you quickly develop a "rhythm" for racing at speed on the track. What I learned is that "short shifting".....does both! By definition, the technique of "short shifting" almost explains itself in the name. You shift short of your normal engine rpm limit. The key is - you do it in every gear! Example: Let's say you normally would shift your race car at 8,000 rpm (high limit). So....first gear you run up to 8,000 rpm - shift to second. Second gear up to 8,000 rpm and shift to third.....etc. To learn a new road course (using our example) - all you need to do is choose a lower shift point (say 5,000 rpm when first rolling out onto a new road course)! Pretty simple stuff here. After a few laps....and you are getting a feel for where the track goes.....you might raise your shift point to say, 5,500 rpm.......then to 6,000 rpm in a few more laps....etc. It won't take long before you are running laps at or near your normal shift limiter. All the while....you've developed your rhythm for running at that track....because you have not dramatically changed where your shift points are on the track.....from your slowest to your fastest laps. There's one **key** element to add: Never (never means n.e.v.e.r.).....during this learning process.....NEVER brake later than the first brake marker ("first" meaning the first one you come to at every turn). If you always brake at the earliest brake marker....and you are not at maximum approach speed to the turn.....you can never get into trouble with too late of a brake point....even if you don't know the track! You can move your braking points up track in later sessions........when you are comfortable with your speeds and shifting points. [And, you can use a similar process by incrementally moving them....just like you did your shift limits.] I used this extensively throughout 1987 - running in the ESCORT Endurance Series. Within about an hour's track time.....I was running at 95% of my fastest times....by the end of the entire weekend of racing. That is a quick learning curve (for me at least)......and this works! Try it. I hope this is helpful to some of you guys who hate road courses! .....lol...... Regards, Tom PS: "Short Shifting" has multiple uses. It will also work if you want to run conservative laps for a portion of a race.....to conserve fuel.......to conserve tire wear........to cool overheated tires and brakes. By moving your shift limit down only a couple hundred rpm.....you conserve fuel, tires and brakes. AND....you don't upset your "rhythm pattern" of shifting very much (almost not at all.....your shift points will only change a few feet on the track). Need to conserve more? Less? Move your shift limit down 500 rpms.......only 100 rpms. See how this works? This is an excellent method to run conservation laps during the middle stints of a long race......that are still **consistent** lap times. You'll make your crew chief very happy if you are driver that can use this "tool" of short shifting.....effectively!

Tom, Thanks for the info. That's how I've been learning all the new tracks that our SNRL FD league (GPL) has been visiting, as well as following the full F1 season in F2002. But I've been taking 1st,2nd, and 3rd to the red line, and have gotten into trouble a number of times. I'll try your method with 1st marker braking. Hopefully your method will not only let me learn the tracks quicker, but should lower the fustration level considerably. Joel Willstein -- "If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn , then you have enough horsepower." Mark Donohue "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01... > [In an effort to encourage more "road racers" among sim drivers, especially > in N2K2, I'm passing on some of the tools I learned from other drivers > during my 10 years or so of active racing experience - particularly those > that I found adapted well to sim racing. Last week I talked about driving > the track backwards....same as a backwards " track walk." Here's another > tool that I found to be invaluable to learn a new road course.] > > **Using Short Shifting To Learn New Road Courses** > > I first heard this term back in 1987 when I was driving for the BMW factory > team in the SCCA Escort Endurance Pro Series. My co-driver, Andy Evans - a > driver with considerably more experience than I at the time - taught this to > me (and I have sense read about it - in one form or another - in many "how > to" road racing books). We were running most of the road courses in North > America that year and that included Mosport in Canada. Practically every > race event, meant a brand new road course for me. Unlike in sim racing, I > did not have the luxury of bending our race car several times on Thursday > and Friday (practice sessions), while I learned the track. Funny how it > works that way in real racing! .....lol..... But, learning a new road > course quickly is not an easy thing to do for most drivers. You can't just > "go slow"....because while that may give you the opportunity to see where > the track goes....it does nothing to help you quickly develop a "rhythm" for > racing at speed on the track. What I learned is that "short > shifting".....does both! > > By definition, the technique of "short shifting" almost explains itself in > the name. You shift short of your normal engine rpm limit. The key is - > you do it in every gear! Example: Let's say you normally would shift your > race car at 8,000 rpm (high limit). So....first gear you run up to 8,000 > rpm - shift to second. Second gear up to 8,000 rpm and shift to > third.....etc. > > To learn a new road course (using our example) - all you need to do is > choose a lower shift point (say 5,000 rpm when first rolling out onto a new > road course)! Pretty simple stuff here. > > After a few laps....and you are getting a feel for where the track > goes.....you might raise your shift point to say, 5,500 rpm.......then to > 6,000 rpm in a few more laps....etc. It won't take long before you are > running laps at or near your normal shift limiter. All the while....you've > developed your rhythm for running at that track....because you have not > dramatically changed where your shift points are on the track.....from your > slowest to your fastest laps. > > There's one **key** element to add: Never (never means > n.e.v.e.r.).....during this learning process.....NEVER brake later than the > first brake marker ("first" meaning the first one you come to at every > turn). If you always brake at the earliest brake marker....and you are not > at maximum approach speed to the turn.....you can never get into trouble > with too late of a brake point....even if you don't know the track! You can > move your braking points up track in later sessions........when you are > comfortable with your speeds and shifting points. [And, you can use a > similar process by incrementally moving them....just like you did your shift > limits.] > > I used this extensively throughout 1987 - running in the ESCORT Endurance > Series. Within about an hour's track time.....I was running at 95% of my > fastest times....by the end of the entire weekend of racing. That is a > quick learning curve (for me at least)......and this works! Try it. > > I hope this is helpful to some of you guys who hate road courses! > .....lol...... > > Regards, > > Tom > > PS: "Short Shifting" has multiple uses. It will also work if you want to > run conservative laps for a portion of a race.....to conserve fuel.......to > conserve tire wear........to cool overheated tires and brakes. By moving > your shift limit down only a couple hundred rpm.....you conserve fuel, tires > and brakes. AND....you don't upset your "rhythm pattern" of shifting very > much (almost not at all.....your shift points will only change a few feet on > the track). Need to conserve more? Less? Move your shift limit down 500 > rpms.......only 100 rpms. See how this works? This is an excellent method > to run conservation laps during the middle stints of a long race......that > are still **consistent** lap times. You'll make your crew chief very happy > if you are driver that can use this "tool" of short > shifting.....effectively! > >

"The fastest way to go slow is to brake too late", eh Tom? ;-) -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com

LOL This reminds me of my first lap at Watkins in GT-1 Tom. "Mr. Hot Shoes" that I was didn't need no stinking safe braking marker. This is GT-1! You drive these cars into the corners hard!! So after going through the experience of looping into the grass and believing I was about to see my life flash before my eyes (No nice sand traps back then!!), my next attempt at turn 1 at Watkins had my braking point become the S/F Line. ROFLMAO -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01... > > There's one **key** element to add: Never (never means > n.e.v.e.r.).....during this learning process.....NEVER brake later than the > first brake marker ("first" meaning the first one you come to at every > turn). If you always brake at the earliest brake marker....and you are not > at maximum approach speed to the turn.....you can never get into trouble > with too late of a brake point....even if you don't know the track!

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01... > [In an effort to encourage more "road racers" among sim drivers,especially

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> in N2K2, I'm passing on some of the tools I learned from other drivers > during my 10 years or so of active racing experience - particularly those > that I found adapted well to sim racing. Last week I talked about driving > the track backwards....same as a backwards " track walk." Here's another > tool that I found to be invaluable to learn a new road course.] > > **Using Short Shifting To Learn New Road Courses** >

<snipped entirely worthless training tool> This is bullsh*t. I don't even have to try this to know it is a complete waste of time. I had a dream about short shifting and it didn't work. This is incontrovertible proof that it's a bad idea. Now you may think I should still try it but being a Jedi allows me to sense the effectiveness and I sense it is worthless. As a Vulcan I find this approach completely illogical. I went to the David Powell Racing Academy where he teaches the one right way to learn how to race. This isn't that ONE way, so what's wrong with you? What is your obsession with all these creative and useful approaches? Please stop. -- Joe Marques

No idea about real racing but short shifting does help me a lot in n2002 especially at sears since the car doesnt rip loose everytime i hit the throttle and it also makes it possible to run with more tape in the front . The car will last easily with 40% tape and 95 deegres for a full 50% race if you shortshift through the gears and there is no slowdown in laptimes whatsoever (i can only do 1:20-1:22 no matter how i drive) Liked the drive the track backwards idea too if nothing else its good fun! LGE "Joe Marques" <[email hidden]> skrev i meddelandet news:4Yd%8.237531$[email hidden]... > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01... > > [In an effort to encourage more "road racers" among sim drivers, > especially > > in N2K2, I'm passing on some of the tools I learned from other drivers > > during my 10 years or so of active racing experience - particularlythose > > that I found adapted well to sim racing. Last week I talked aboutdriving > > the track backwards....same as a backwards " track walk." Here'sanother

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> > tool that I found to be invaluable to learn a new road course.] > > > > **Using Short Shifting To Learn New Road Courses** > > > <snipped entirely worthless training tool> > > This is bullsh*t. I don't even have to try this to know it is a complete > waste of time. I had a dream about short shifting and it didn't work.

This > is incontrovertible proof that it's a bad idea. Now you may think Ishould

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> still try it but being a Jedi allows me to sense the effectiveness and I > sense it is worthless. As a Vulcan I find this approach completely > illogical. I went to the David Powell Racing Academy where he teaches the > one right way to learn how to race. This isn't that ONE way, so what's > wrong with you? > > What is your obsession with all these creative and useful approaches? > Please stop. > > -- > Joe Marques > >

nice one :-) Achim "Joe Marques" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4Yd%8.237531$[email hidden]... > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01... > > [In an effort to encourage more "road racers" among sim drivers, > especially > > in N2K2, I'm passing on some of the tools I learned from other drivers > > during my 10 years or so of active racing experience - particularlythose > > that I found adapted well to sim racing. Last week I talked aboutdriving > > the track backwards....same as a backwards " track walk." Here'sanother

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> > tool that I found to be invaluable to learn a new road course.] > > > > **Using Short Shifting To Learn New Road Courses** > > > <snipped entirely worthless training tool> > > This is bullsh*t. I don't even have to try this to know it is a complete > waste of time. I had a dream about short shifting and it didn't work.

This > is incontrovertible proof that it's a bad idea. Now you may think Ishould

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> still try it but being a Jedi allows me to sense the effectiveness and I > sense it is worthless. As a Vulcan I find this approach completely > illogical. I went to the David Powell Racing Academy where he teaches the > one right way to learn how to race. This isn't that ONE way, so what's > wrong with you? > > What is your obsession with all these creative and useful approaches? > Please stop. > > -- > Joe Marques > >

ROFLMAO.........you are lucky you have the ability to breath air these days, Mr. Scott! I guess we all do something like that.....at least once, huh? Mine was my third SCCA GT-1/2/3 race at Portland International.....rookie season. I'd DNF'd the first race.......won the second race.....and now two months into the season its "Race #3" and I'm feeling like a veteran hot shoe! I roll off the hot grid for the morning practice (on Saturday).....and go screaming down the straight (Portland's straight is nearly a mile long). I'm doing about 165mph.......here comes the 5 marker....then the 4 marker.....I'm ready for my 3 1/2 regular marker.....then I go "OHHHH Shit".........I had totally forgot it was raining! Ahhhmm. Some of you may be familiar with Portland International Raceway......you'll recall that the Portland Golf Club......8th hole....is about 300 yards off the end of T-1 at Portland International Raceway........grass all the way from the track to the golf course, too! In the case of this day....it was very wet grass! I stopped just short of the sand trap on the left front of the green! .....lol..... I was so far off the track they didn't even bother to throw a yellow! .......lol..... I spent a good portion of the remaining Saturday morning......laundering my new driver's suit in a washtub at the track.....in the men's room. I also got a glorious 20 minutes in the trailer with Mr. Skip Yoccum.....Chief Of Stewards. I can't repeat any of the lecture I got (I was still on a three-race probation to get my SCCA Regional License)......but my ears were burning and my ass was burning......the rest of the day! You know, it was very clearly raining that morning, too. Tom "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZJd%8.114$[email hidden]... > LOL > > This reminds me of my first lap at Watkins in GT-1 Tom. "Mr. Hot Shoes" > that I was didn't need no stinking safe braking marker. This is GT-1!You

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> drive these cars into the corners hard!! > > So after going through the experience of looping into the grass and > believing I was about to see my life flash before my eyes (No nice sand > traps back then!!), my next attempt at turn 1 at Watkins had my braking > point become the S/F Line. ROFLMAO > > -- > Scott B. Husted > PA-Scott > ICQ# 4395450 > http://www.Husted.cc > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01... > > > > There's one **key** element to add: Never (never means > > n.e.v.e.r.).....during this learning process.....NEVER brake later than > the > > first brake marker ("first" meaning the first one you come to at every > > turn). If you always brake at the earliest brake marker....and you are > not > > at maximum approach speed to the turn.....you can never get into trouble > > with too late of a brake point....even if you don't know the track! > >

LOL....Joe.......stop pouring gasoline on the fire, will ya? ......lol..... TP "Joe Marques" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4Yd%8.237531$[email hidden]... > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01... > > [In an effort to encourage more "road racers" among sim drivers, > especially > > in N2K2, I'm passing on some of the tools I learned from other drivers > > during my 10 years or so of active racing experience - particularlythose > > that I found adapted well to sim racing. Last week I talked aboutdriving > > the track backwards....same as a backwards " track walk." Here'sanother

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> > tool that I found to be invaluable to learn a new road course.] > > > > **Using Short Shifting To Learn New Road Courses** > > > <snipped entirely worthless training tool> > > This is bullsh*t. I don't even have to try this to know it is a complete > waste of time. I had a dream about short shifting and it didn't work.

This > is incontrovertible proof that it's a bad idea. Now you may think Ishould

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> still try it but being a Jedi allows me to sense the effectiveness and I > sense it is worthless. As a Vulcan I find this approach completely > illogical. I went to the David Powell Racing Academy where he teaches the > one right way to learn how to race. This isn't that ONE way, so what's > wrong with you? > > What is your obsession with all these creative and useful approaches? > Please stop. > > -- > Joe Marques > >

At Skip Barber they used that technique with the Formula Dodge cars--on the first day they gave you an RPM limit of 4000 or whatever, and then each session they'd give you a progressively higher limit. The first time they let us shift at the redline was pretty intense, with the little 2.0 L engine making an incredible racket right behind my head... -Dave P. PS. Another technique that I've learned for road courses, that would work for sims, is to spend a fair amount of time just driving the course in my head. (This is also good for learning how to land a plane). One advantage is that when I do it my head, I do it perfectly every time, so I'm not practicing doing it wrong. Also, it really makes me learn the track so I'm thinking ahead, instead of just reacting to the track. Usually at a real track, track time is very precious, so you spend a lot of time waiting around with your brain going at 9000 RPM, whereas in a sim, it's too easy just to keep lapping blindly, because it's "free". A few laps in the "brain sim" might be a good alternative. I have a hard time learning a track normally, so this method might not help those who pretty much get the whole layout down after a lap or two. YMMV. "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oqk%8.90493$[email hidden]... > LOL....Joe.......stop pouring gasoline on the fire, will ya?......lol.....

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> > TP > > > "Joe Marques" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:4Yd%8.237531$[email hidden]... > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01... > > > [In an effort to encourage more "road racers" among sim drivers, > > especially > > > in N2K2, I'm passing on some of the tools I learned from other drivers > > > during my 10 years or so of active racing experience - particularly > those > > > that I found adapted well to sim racing. Last week I talked about > driving > > > the track backwards....same as a backwards " track walk." Here's > another > > > tool that I found to be invaluable to learn a new road course.] > > > > > > **Using Short Shifting To Learn New Road Courses** > > > > > <snipped entirely worthless training tool> > > > > This is bullsh*t. I don't even have to try this to know it is a

complete

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> > waste of time. I had a dream about short shifting and it didn't work. > This > > is incontrovertible proof that it's a bad idea. Now you may think I > should > > still try it but being a Jedi allows me to sense the effectiveness and I > > sense it is worthless. As a Vulcan I find this approach completely > > illogical. I went to the David Powell Racing Academy where he teaches

the

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> > one right way to learn how to race. This isn't that ONE way, so what's > > wrong with you? > > > > What is your obsession with all these creative and useful approaches? > > Please stop. > > > > -- > > Joe Marques > > > > > >

Dave..... Good input, Dave. Also.....its good to hear from you. I missed you at E3 this year...were you guys there? Regards, Tom "Dave Pollatsek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d3e17d9$0$36736$[email hidden]... > At Skip Barber they used that technique with the Formula Dodge cars--onthe > first day they gave you an RPM limit of 4000 or whatever, and then each > session they'd give you a progressively higher limit. The first time they > let us shift at the redline was pretty intense, with the little 2.0 Lengine > making an incredible racket right behind my head... > -Dave P. > > PS. Another technique that I've learned for road courses, that would work > for sims, is to spend a fair amount of time just driving the course in my > head. (This is also good for learning how to land a plane). Oneadvantage > is that when I do it my head, I do it perfectly every time, so I'm not > practicing doing it wrong. Also, it really makes me learn the track soI'm > thinking ahead, instead of just reacting to the track. Usually at a real > track, track time is very precious, so you spend a lot of time waiting > around with your brain going at 9000 RPM, whereas in a sim, it's too easy > just to keep lapping blindly, because it's "free". A few laps in the"brain > sim" might be a good alternative. I have a hard time learning a track > normally, so this method might not help those who pretty much get thewhole

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> layout down after a lap or two. YMMV. > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:oqk%8.90493$[email hidden]... > > LOL....Joe.......stop pouring gasoline on the fire, will ya? > ......lol..... > > > > TP > > > > > > "Joe Marques" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:4Yd%8.237531$[email hidden]... > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01... > > > > [In an effort to encourage more "road racers" among sim drivers, > > > especially > > > > in N2K2, I'm passing on some of the tools I learned from other

drivers

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> > > > during my 10 years or so of active racing experience - particularly > > those > > > > that I found adapted well to sim racing. Last week I talked about > > driving > > > > the track backwards....same as a backwards " track walk." Here's > > another > > > > tool that I found to be invaluable to learn a new road course.] > > > > > > > > **Using Short Shifting To Learn New Road Courses** > > > > > > > <snipped entirely worthless training tool> > > > > > > This is bullsh*t. I don't even have to try this to know it is a > complete > > > waste of time. I had a dream about short shifting and it didn't work. > > This > > > is incontrovertible proof that it's a bad idea. Now you may think I > > should > > > still try it but being a Jedi allows me to sense the effectiveness and

I > > > sense it is worthless. As a Vulcan I find this approach completely > > > illogical. I went to the David Powell Racing Academy where he teaches > the > > > one right way to learn how to race. This isn't that ONE way, sowhat's

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> > > wrong with you? > > > > > > What is your obsession with all these creative and useful approaches? > > > Please stop. > > > > > > -- > > > Joe Marques > > > > > > > > > > > >

I don't think I remember anything that was said to me the rest of the day as with my heart not beating and no blood going to the brain... the only thing I can remember was hoping I brought additional underwear. <G> I remember going straight, applying the brake.. more, then more, then white smoke and thinking.... hmm, this isn't working!! LOL So lets try this genius move, let off the brake and turn into the corner! YES.. Lets see how many 360s we can do before you get a mouth full of old tires and guard rail. I'm still not sure how the only damage was tearing the front body work off. -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zfk%8.141187$[email hidden]... > ROFLMAO.........you are lucky you have the ability to breath air these days, > Mr. Scott! > > I guess we all do something like that.....at least once, huh? > > Mine was my third SCCA GT-1/2/3 race at Portland International.....rookie > season. I'd DNF'd the first race.......won the second race.....and now two > months into the season its "Race #3" and I'm feeling like a veteran hot > shoe! I roll off the hot grid for the morning practice (on > Saturday).....and go screaming down the straight (Portland's straight is > nearly a mile long). I'm doing about 165mph.......here comes the 5 > marker....then the 4 marker.....I'm ready for my 3 1/2 regular > marker.....then I go "OHHHH Shit".........I had totally forgot it was > raining! > > Ahhhmm. Some of you may be familiar with Portland International > Raceway......you'll recall that the Portland Golf Club......8th hole....is > about 300 yards off the end of T-1 at Portland International > Raceway........grass all the way from the track to the golf course, too! In > the case of this day....it was very wet grass! I stopped just short of the > sand trap on the left front of the green! .....lol..... I was so far off > the track they didn't even bother to throw a yellow! .......lol..... > > I spent a good portion of the remaining Saturday morning......laundering my > new driver's suit in a washtub at the track.....in the men's room. I also > got a glorious 20 minutes in the trailer with Mr. Skip Yoccum.....Chief Of > Stewards. I can't repeat any of the lecture I got (I was still on a > three-race probation to get my SCCA Regional License)......but my ears were > burning and my ass was burning......the rest of the day! > > You know, it was very clearly raining that morning, too. > > Tom > > >

great info, thx Tom! "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01... > [In an effort to encourage more "road racers" among sim drivers,especially

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> in N2K2, I'm passing on some of the tools I learned from other drivers > during my 10 years or so of active racing experience - particularly those > that I found adapted well to sim racing. Last week I talked about driving > the track backwards....same as a backwards " track walk." Here's another > tool that I found to be invaluable to learn a new road course.] > > **Using Short Shifting To Learn New Road Courses** > > I first heard this term back in 1987 when I was driving for the BMW

factory > team in the SCCA Escort Endurance Pro Series. My co-driver, Andy Evans -a > driver with considerably more experience than I at the time - taught thisto

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> me (and I have sense read about it - in one form or another - in many "how > to" road racing books). We were running most of the road courses in North > America that year and that included Mosport in Canada. Practically every > race event, meant a brand new road course for me. Unlike in sim racing, I > did not have the luxury of bending our race car several times on Thursday > and Friday (practice sessions), while I learned the track. Funny how it > works that way in real racing! .....lol..... But, learning a new road > course quickly is not an easy thing to do for most drivers. You can't

just > "go slow"....because while that may give you the opportunity to see where > the track goes....it does nothing to help you quickly develop a "rhythm"for > racing at speed on the track. What I learned is that "short > shifting".....does both! > > By definition, the technique of "short shifting" almost explains itself in > the name. You shift short of your normal engine rpm limit. The key is - > you do it in every gear! Example: Let's say you normally would shiftyour

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> race car at 8,000 rpm (high limit). So....first gear you run up to 8,000 > rpm - shift to second. Second gear up to 8,000 rpm and shift to > third.....etc. > > To learn a new road course (using our example) - all you need to do is > choose a lower shift point (say 5,000 rpm when first rolling out onto a

new > road course)! Pretty simple stuff here. > > After a few laps....and you are getting a feel for where the track > goes.....you might raise your shift point to say, 5,500 rpm.......then to > 6,000 rpm in a few more laps....etc. It won't take long before you are > running laps at or near your normal shift limiter. All thewhile....you've > developed your rhythm for running at that track....because you have not > dramatically changed where your shift points are on the track.....fromyour > slowest to your fastest laps. > > There's one **key** element to add: Never (never means > n.e.v.e.r.).....during this learning process.....NEVER brake later thanthe > first brake marker ("first" meaning the first one you come to at every > turn). If you always brake at the earliest brake marker....and you arenot > at maximum approach speed to the turn.....you can never get into trouble > with too late of a brake point....even if you don't know the track! Youcan > move your braking points up track in later sessions........when you are > comfortable with your speeds and shifting points. [And, you can use a > similar process by incrementally moving them....just like you did yourshift

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> limits.] > > I used this extensively throughout 1987 - running in the ESCORT Endurance > Series. Within about an hour's track time.....I was running at 95% of my > fastest times....by the end of the entire weekend of racing. That is a > quick learning curve (for me at least)......and this works! Try it. > > I hope this is helpful to some of you guys who hate road courses! > .....lol...... > > Regards, > > Tom > > PS: "Short Shifting" has multiple uses. It will also work if you want to > run conservative laps for a portion of a race.....to conserve

fuel.......to > conserve tire wear........to cool overheated tires and brakes. By moving > your shift limit down only a couple hundred rpm.....you conserve fuel,tires > and brakes. AND....you don't upset your "rhythm pattern" of shifting very > much (almost not at all.....your shift points will only change a few feeton > the track). Need to conserve more? Less? Move your shift limit down500 > rpms.......only 100 rpms. See how this works? This is an excellentmethod > to run conservation laps during the middle stints of a long race......that > are still **consistent** lap times. You'll make your crew chief veryhappy > if you are driver that can use this "tool" of short > shifting.....effectively! > >

Hope it helps you, Rik.......it shouldn't hurt you at least (that's the idea). Regards, Tom "rik zeppelin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:l0y%8.148741$[email hidden]...

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> great info, thx Tom! > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01... > > [In an effort to encourage more "road racers" among sim drivers, > especially > > in N2K2, I'm passing on some of the tools I learned from other drivers > > during my 10 years or so of active racing experience - particularly

those > > that I found adapted well to sim racing. Last week I talked aboutdriving > > the track backwards....same as a backwards " track walk." Here'sanother

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> > tool that I found to be invaluable to learn a new road course.] > > > > **Using Short Shifting To Learn New Road Courses** > > > > I first heard this term back in 1987 when I was driving for the BMW > factory > > team in the SCCA Escort Endurance Pro Series. My co-driver, Andy

Evans - > a > > driver with considerably more experience than I at the time - taughtthis > to > > me (and I have sense read about it - in one form or another - in many"how > > to" road racing books). We were running most of the road courses inNorth > > America that year and that included Mosport in Canada. Practicallyevery > > race event, meant a brand new road course for me. Unlike in sim racing,I > > did not have the luxury of bending our race car several times onThursday > > and Friday (practice sessions), while I learned the track. Funny how it > > works that way in real racing! .....lol..... But, learning a new road > > course quickly is not an easy thing to do for most drivers. You can't > just > > "go slow"....because while that may give you the opportunity to seewhere > > the track goes....it does nothing to help you quickly develop a "rhythm" > for > > racing at speed on the track. What I learned is that "short > > shifting".....does both! > > > > By definition, the technique of "short shifting" almost explains itselfin > > the name. You shift short of your normal engine rpm limit. The keyis - > > you do it in every gear! Example: Let's say you normally would shift > your > > race car at 8,000 rpm (high limit). So....first gear you run up to8,000

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> > > rpm - shift to second. Second gear up to 8,000 rpm and shift to > > third.....etc. > > > > To learn a new road course (using our example) - all you need to do is > > choose a lower shift point (say 5,000 rpm when first rolling out onto a > new > > road course)! Pretty simple stuff here. > > > > After a few laps....and you are getting a feel for where the track > > goes.....you might raise your shift point to say, 5,500 rpm.......then

to

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> > 6,000 rpm in a few more laps....etc. It won't take long before you are > > running laps at or near your normal shift limiter. All the > while....you've > > developed your rhythm for running at that track....because you have not > > dramatically changed where your shift points are on the track.....from > your > > slowest to your fastest laps. > > > > There's one **key** element to add: Never (never means > > n.e.v.e.r.).....during this learning process.....NEVER brake later than > the > > first brake marker ("first" meaning the first one you come to at every > > turn). If you always brake at the earliest brake marker....and you are > not > > at maximum approach speed to the turn.....you can never get into trouble > > with too late of a brake point....even if you don't know the track! You > can > > move your braking points up track in later sessions........when you are > > comfortable with your speeds and shifting points. [And, you can use a > > similar process by incrementally moving them....just like you did your > shift > > limits.] > > > > I used this extensively throughout 1987 - running in the ESCORT

Endurance > > Series. Within about an hour's track time.....I was running at 95% ofmy

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> > fastest times....by the end of the entire weekend of racing. That is a > > quick learning curve (for me at least)......and this works! Try it. > > > > I hope this is helpful to some of you guys who hate road courses! > > .....lol...... > > > > Regards, > > > > Tom > > > > PS: "Short Shifting" has multiple uses. It will also work if you want

to > > run conservative laps for a portion of a race.....to conserve > fuel.......to > > conserve tire wear........to cool overheated tires and brakes. Bymoving > > your shift limit down only a couple hundred rpm.....you conserve fuel, > tires > > and brakes. AND....you don't upset your "rhythm pattern" of shiftingvery > > much (almost not at all.....your shift points will only change a fewfeet > on > > the track). Need to conserve more? Less? Move your shift limit down > 500 > > rpms.......only 100 rpms. See how this works? This is an excellent > method > > to run conservation laps during the middle stints of a longrace......that

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> > are still **consistent** lap times. You'll make your crew chief very > happy > > if you are driver that can use this "tool" of short > > shifting.....effectively! > > > > > >

In article <0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes: >By definition, the technique of "short shifting" almost explains itself in >the name. You shift short of your normal engine rpm limit. The key is - >you do it in every gear! Example: Let's say you normally would shift your >race car at 8,000 rpm (high limit). So....first gear you run up to 8,000 >rpm - shift to second. Second gear up to 8,000 rpm and shift to >third.....etc. Interesting. I've had people ride along as I'm driving, and they berate me for shifting too soon. I do it normally as a matter of course. I think it might be because I don't *know* where the shift points are, so I shift early to avoid engine damage. Or it just sounds like that's where I *should* be shifting. One thing I *do* know - I rarely blow engines during races(maybe 3-5 in 4 years of online racing). Doesn't help me win any, though...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldred... You make a good point. Just exactly where is your shift point? Well, in a real race car, it is where your engine builder tells you it is. There's no room for negotiation.....you know? ....lol... But in a racing sim...its not so obvious. Perhaps you could start a new post and open the topic, "How to determine your shift points....in a racing sim?" I bet we'd get some varied responses....and maybe some good information to help us all.....be a little faster (or blow a few less engines)! I can add one thing to your comment about not blowing engines. In N2K2 (and N4) I used to fairly regularly blow an engine on the road courses. Generally, I shift the WC sim car at about 8,800 rpms....when pushing it. However, for the last six months or so, I've been using a clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift. Same racing sim....(N2K2)....no blown engines since using a clutch pedal in this manner (I learned this technique...watching the in-car foot cam of Mark Martin running at Sears. Bill Elliott uses the same technique too. I don't know if this has any significance....but I didn't really realize this until just now....reading your post. Regards, Tom "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01>, "Tom Pabst"<[email hidden]> > writes: > > >By definition, the technique of "short shifting" almost explains itselfin > >the name. You shift short of your normal engine rpm limit. The key is - > >you do it in every gear! Example: Let's say you normally would shiftyour > >race car at 8,000 rpm (high limit). So....first gear you run up to 8,000 > >rpm - shift to second. Second gear up to 8,000 rpm and shift to > >third.....etc. > > Interesting. I've had people ride along as I'm driving, and they berateme for > shifting too soon. I do it normally as a matter of course. I think itmight > be because I don't *know* where the shift points are, so I shift early toavoid > engine damage. Or it just sounds like that's where I *should* beshifting. > One thing I *do* know - I rarely blow engines during races(maybe 3-5 in 4years

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> of online racing). Doesn't help me win any, though...<g> > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

What's a throttle blip? /Carl "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5p109.666734$cQ3.105839@sccrnsc01... > clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift. Sameracing

Carl Ribbegaardh <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ahr366$v8cqb$[email hidden]...

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> "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:5p109.666734$cQ3.105839@sccrnsc01... > > > clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift. Same > racing > What's a throttle blip?

A quick 'tap' or 'flick' of the throttle, in neutral or with the clutch disengaged, to increase engine revs (usually to rev-match during a downshift). Jonny

If you are approaching a corner, and you scream "Oh Shit"... your shift point is BEFORE this. Repeat process until you make it through the corner. <VBG> -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5p109.666734$cQ3.105839@sccrnsc01... > Eldred... > > You make a good point. Just exactly where is your shift point? > > Well, in a real race car, it is where your engine builder tells you it is. > There's no room for negotiation.....you know? ....lol... > > But in a racing sim...its not so obvious. Perhaps you could start a new > post and open the topic, "How to determine your shift points....in a racing > sim?" I bet we'd get some varied responses....and maybe some good > information to help us all.....be a little faster (or blow a few less > engines)! > > I can add one thing to your comment about not blowing engines. > > In N2K2 (and N4) I used to fairly regularly blow an engine on the road > courses. Generally, I shift the WC sim car at about 8,800 rpms....when > pushing it. However, for the last six months or so, I've been using a > clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift. Same racing > sim....(N2K2)....no blown engines since using a clutch pedal in this manner > (I learned this technique...watching the in-car foot cam of Mark Martin > running at Sears. Bill Elliott uses the same technique too. I don't know > if this has any significance....but I didn't really realize this until just > now....reading your post. > > Regards, > > Tom > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01>, "Tom Pabst" > <[email hidden]> > > writes: > > > > >By definition, the technique of "short shifting" almost explains itself > in > > >the name. You shift short of your normal engine rpm limit. The key is - > > >you do it in every gear! Example: Let's say you normally would shift > your > > >race car at 8,000 rpm (high limit). So....first gear you run up to 8,000 > > >rpm - shift to second. Second gear up to 8,000 rpm and shift to > > >third.....etc. > > > > Interesting. I've had people ride along as I'm driving, and they berate > me for > > shifting too soon. I do it normally as a matter of course. I think it > might > > be because I don't *know* where the shift points are, so I shift early to > avoid > > engine damage. Or it just sounds like that's where I *should* be > shifting. > > One thing I *do* know - I rarely blow engines during races(maybe 3-5 in 4 > years > > of online racing). Doesn't help me win any, though...<g> > > > > Eldred > > -- > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > >

BTW.. this is a sim only approach, do not try it in a real race car. ;) -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_7c09.773$[email hidden]... > If you are approaching a corner, and you scream "Oh Shit"... your shift > point is BEFORE this. Repeat process until you make it through the corner. > <VBG> > > -- > Scott B. Husted > PA-Scott > ICQ# 4395450 > http://www.Husted.cc > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:5p109.666734$cQ3.105839@sccrnsc01... > > Eldred... > > > > You make a good point. Just exactly where is your shift point? > > > > Well, in a real race car, it is where your engine builder tells you it is. > > There's no room for negotiation.....you know? ....lol... > > > > But in a racing sim...its not so obvious. Perhaps you could start a new > > post and open the topic, "How to determine your shift points....in a > racing > > sim?" I bet we'd get some varied responses....and maybe some good > > information to help us all.....be a little faster (or blow a few less > > engines)! > > > > I can add one thing to your comment about not blowing engines. > > > > In N2K2 (and N4) I used to fairly regularly blow an engine on the road > > courses. Generally, I shift the WC sim car at about 8,800 rpms....when > > pushing it. However, for the last six months or so, I've been using a > > clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift. Same > racing > > sim....(N2K2)....no blown engines since using a clutch pedal in this > manner > > (I learned this technique...watching the in-car foot cam of Mark Martin > > running at Sears. Bill Elliott uses the same technique too. I don't know > > if this has any significance....but I didn't really realize this until > just > > now....reading your post. > > > > Regards, > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01>, "Tom Pabst" > > <[email hidden]> > > > writes: > > > > > > >By definition, the technique of "short shifting" almost explains itself > > in > > > >the name. You shift short of your normal engine rpm limit. The key > is - > > > >you do it in every gear! Example: Let's say you normally would shift > > your > > > >race car at 8,000 rpm (high limit). So....first gear you run up to > 8,000 > > > >rpm - shift to second. Second gear up to 8,000 rpm and shift to > > > >third.....etc. > > > > > > Interesting. I've had people ride along as I'm driving, and they berate > > me for > > > shifting too soon. I do it normally as a matter of course. I think it > > might > > > be because I don't *know* where the shift points are, so I shift early > to > > avoid > > > engine damage. Or it just sounds like that's where I *should* be > > shifting. > > > One thing I *do* know - I rarely blow engines during races(maybe 3-5 in > 4 > > years > > > of online racing). Doesn't help me win any, though...<g> > > > > > > Eldred > > > -- > > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > > My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... > > > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > > > >

Hi Tom, We were there for two days, but mostly just wandering around and checking out games... -Dave "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Eir%8.145328$[email hidden]... > Dave..... > > Good input, Dave. > > Also.....its good to hear from you. I missed you at E3 this year...wereyou

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> guys there? > > Regards, > > Tom > > > "Dave Pollatsek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3d3e17d9$0$36736$[email hidden]... > > At Skip Barber they used that technique with the Formula Dodge cars--on > the > > first day they gave you an RPM limit of 4000 or whatever, and then each > > session they'd give you a progressively higher limit. The first time

they > > let us shift at the redline was pretty intense, with the little 2.0 L > engine > > making an incredible racket right behind my head... > > -Dave P. > > > > PS. Another technique that I've learned for road courses, that wouldwork > > for sims, is to spend a fair amount of time just driving the course inmy > > head. (This is also good for learning how to land a plane). One > advantage > > is that when I do it my head, I do it perfectly every time, so I'm not > > practicing doing it wrong. Also, it really makes me learn the track so > I'm > > thinking ahead, instead of just reacting to the track. Usually at areal > > track, track time is very precious, so you spend a lot of time waiting > > around with your brain going at 9000 RPM, whereas in a sim, it's tooeasy

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> > just to keep lapping blindly, because it's "free". A few laps in the > "brain > > sim" might be a good alternative. I have a hard time learning a track > > normally, so this method might not help those who pretty much get the > whole > > layout down after a lap or two. YMMV. > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:oqk%8.90493$[email hidden]... > > > LOL....Joe.......stop pouring gasoline on the fire, will ya? > > ......lol..... > > > > > > TP > > > > > > > > > "Joe Marques" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:4Yd%8.237531$[email hidden]... > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01... > > > > > [In an effort to encourage more "road racers" among sim drivers, > > > > especially > > > > > in N2K2, I'm passing on some of the tools I learned from other > drivers > > > > > during my 10 years or so of active racing experience -

particularly

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> > > those > > > > > that I found adapted well to sim racing. Last week I talked about > > > driving > > > > > the track backwards....same as a backwards " track walk." Here's > > > another > > > > > tool that I found to be invaluable to learn a new road course.] > > > > > > > > > > **Using Short Shifting To Learn New Road Courses** > > > > > > > > > <snipped entirely worthless training tool> > > > > > > > > This is bullsh*t. I don't even have to try this to know it is a > > complete > > > > waste of time. I had a dream about short shifting and it didn't

work. > > > This > > > > is incontrovertible proof that it's a bad idea. Now you may think I > > > should > > > > still try it but being a Jedi allows me to sense the effectivenessand > I > > > > sense it is worthless. As a Vulcan I find this approach completely > > > > illogical. I went to the David Powell Racing Academy where heteaches > > the > > > > one right way to learn how to race. This isn't that ONE way, so > what's > > > > wrong with you? > > > > > > > > What is your obsession with all these creative and usefulapproaches?

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> > > > Please stop. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Joe Marques > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I read a article about Gilles that said he bascially used this same formula successfully in F1 to learn the track. Guys where in shock considering the car control the guy had. Supposedly he would overcook a corner till he found the limit, and would move on to the next corner. Iron brains of Iron nerves we will never know, but they guy was fast. Dave Scott B. Husted <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:H8c09.774$[email hidden]...

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> BTW.. this is a sim only approach, do not try it in a real race car. ;) > > -- > Scott B. Husted > PA-Scott > ICQ# 4395450 > http://www.Husted.cc > > > "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:_7c09.773$[email hidden]... > > If you are approaching a corner, and you scream "Oh Shit"... your shift > > point is BEFORE this. Repeat process until you make it through the > corner. > > <VBG> > > > > -- > > Scott B. Husted > > PA-Scott > > ICQ# 4395450 > > http://www.Husted.cc > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:5p109.666734$cQ3.105839@sccrnsc01... > > > Eldred... > > > > > > You make a good point. Just exactly where is your shift point? > > > > > > Well, in a real race car, it is where your engine builder tells you it > is. > > > There's no room for negotiation.....you know? ....lol... > > > > > > But in a racing sim...its not so obvious. Perhaps you could start a

new

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> > > post and open the topic, "How to determine your shift points....in a > > racing > > > sim?" I bet we'd get some varied responses....and maybe some good > > > information to help us all.....be a little faster (or blow a few less > > > engines)! > > > > > > I can add one thing to your comment about not blowing engines. > > > > > > In N2K2 (and N4) I used to fairly regularly blow an engine on the road > > > courses. Generally, I shift the WC sim car at about 8,800

rpms....when > > > pushing it. However, for the last six months or so, I've been using a > > > clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift. Same > > racing > > > sim....(N2K2)....no blown engines since using a clutch pedal in this > > manner > > > (I learned this technique...watching the in-car foot cam of MarkMartin

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> > > running at Sears. Bill Elliott uses the same technique too. I don't > know > > > if this has any significance....but I didn't really realize this until > > just > > > now....reading your post. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > In article <0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01>, "Tom Pabst" > > > <[email hidden]> > > > > writes: > > > > > > > > >By definition, the technique of "short shifting" almost explains > itself > > > in > > > > >the name. You shift short of your normal engine rpm limit. The

key

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> > is - > > > > >you do it in every gear! Example: Let's say you normally would > shift > > > your > > > > >race car at 8,000 rpm (high limit). So....first gear you run up to > > 8,000 > > > > >rpm - shift to second. Second gear up to 8,000 rpm and shift to > > > > >third.....etc. > > > > > > > > Interesting. I've had people ride along as I'm driving, and they > berate > > > me for > > > > shifting too soon. I do it normally as a matter of course. I think > it > > > might > > > > be because I don't *know* where the shift points are, so I shift

early

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> > to > > > avoid > > > > engine damage. Or it just sounds like that's where I *should* be > > > shifting. > > > > One thing I *do* know - I rarely blow engines during races(maybe 3-5 > in > > 4 > > > years > > > > of online racing). Doesn't help me win any, though...<g> > > > > > > > > Eldred > > > > -- > > > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > > > My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... > > > > > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > > > > > > > > > >

Oh sure... I try and help out the sim racing community and you pass the credit off to Gilles! <VBG> -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "DAVID J ROBINSON" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:y4e09.409$[email hidden]... > I read a article about Gilles that said he bascially used this same formula > successfully in F1 to learn the track. Guys where in shock considering the > car control the guy had. Supposedly he would overcook a corner till he found > the limit, and would move on to the next corner. Iron brains of Iron nerves > we will never know, but they guy was fast. > > Dave > Scott B. Husted <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:H8c09.774$[email hidden]... > > BTW.. this is a sim only approach, do not try it in a real race car. ;) > > > > -- > > Scott B. Husted > > PA-Scott > > ICQ# 4395450 > > http://www.Husted.cc > > > > > > "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:_7c09.773$[email hidden]... > > > If you are approaching a corner, and you scream "Oh Shit"... your shift > > > point is BEFORE this. Repeat process until you make it through the > > corner. > > > <VBG> > > > > > > -- > > > Scott B. Husted > > > PA-Scott > > > ICQ# 4395450 > > > http://www.Husted.cc > > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:5p109.666734$cQ3.105839@sccrnsc01... > > > > Eldred... > > > > > > > > You make a good point. Just exactly where is your shift point? > > > > > > > > Well, in a real race car, it is where your engine builder tells you it > > is. > > > > There's no room for negotiation.....you know? ....lol... > > > > > > > > But in a racing sim...its not so obvious. Perhaps you could start a > new > > > > post and open the topic, "How to determine your shift points....in a > > > racing > > > > sim?" I bet we'd get some varied responses....and maybe some good > > > > information to help us all.....be a little faster (or blow a few less > > > > engines)! > > > > > > > > I can add one thing to your comment about not blowing engines. > > > > > > > > In N2K2 (and N4) I used to fairly regularly blow an engine on the road > > > > courses. Generally, I shift the WC sim car at about 8,800 > rpms....when > > > > pushing it. However, for the last six months or so, I've been using a > > > > clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift. Same > > > racing > > > > sim....(N2K2)....no blown engines since using a clutch pedal in this > > > manner > > > > (I learned this technique...watching the in-car foot cam of Mark > Martin > > > > running at Sears. Bill Elliott uses the same technique too. I don't > > know > > > > if this has any significance....but I didn't really realize this until > > > just > > > > now....reading your post. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > In article <0Gb%8.635591$cQ3.102721@sccrnsc01>, "Tom Pabst" > > > > <[email hidden]> > > > > > writes: > > > > > > > > > > >By definition, the technique of "short shifting" almost explains > > itself > > > > in > > > > > >the name. You shift short of your normal engine rpm limit. The > key > > > is - > > > > > >you do it in every gear! Example: Let's say you normally would > > shift > > > > your > > > > > >race car at 8,000 rpm (high limit). So....first gear you run up to > > > 8,000 > > > > > >rpm - shift to second. Second gear up to 8,000 rpm and shift to > > > > > >third.....etc. > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. I've had people ride along as I'm driving, and they > > berate > > > > me for > > > > > shifting too soon. I do it normally as a matter of course. I think > > it > > > > might > > > > > be because I don't *know* where the shift points are, so I shift > early > > > to > > > > avoid > > > > > engine damage. Or it just sounds like that's where I *should* be > > > > shifting. > > > > > One thing I *do* know - I rarely blow engines during races(maybe 3-5 > > in > > > 4 > > > > years > > > > > of online racing). Doesn't help me win any, though...<g> > > > > > > > > > > Eldred > > > > > -- > > > > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > > > > My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... > > > > > > > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hkb09.1956$[email hidden]... > > Carl Ribbegaardh <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:ahr366$v8cqb$[email hidden]...

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> > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:5p109.666734$cQ3.105839@sccrnsc01... > > > > > clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift. Same > > racing > > > What's a throttle blip? > > A quick 'tap' or 'flick' of the throttle, in neutral or with > the clutch disengaged, to increase engine revs (usually to > rev-match during a downshift). > > Jonny

Aha, like when you double-clutch. Thanks! /Carl

Well, I have always heard that you should shift when the tach needle gets to the 12 o'clock position. You orient the tach in such a way that the needle is in this position when you are supposed to shift. I don't think the guy who installed the tach in my #76 Atomic Racing Pete's Wicked Ale Dodge really knew about this guidance... I'd like some more background information about how shift points (and gear spacing) are developed in a real car. Then, maybe if Papy would come off some info about torque curves in the sim, we could make an intelligent decision. BTW, anyone else notice that the #2 and #12 weren't shifting at Pocono yesterday. I am amazed they got those motors to hold up at 9400 rpm lap after lap... Hey Papy, I'd like to change my engine man in NR2003... Gerald "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<5p109.666734$cQ3.105839@sccrnsc01>...

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> Just exactly where is your shift point? > > Well, in a real race car, it is where your engine builder tells you it is. > There's no room for negotiation.....you know? ....lol... > > But in a racing sim...its not so obvious. Perhaps you could start a new > post and open the topic, "How to determine your shift points....in a racing > sim?" I bet we'd get some varied responses....and maybe some good > information to help us all.....be a little faster (or blow a few less > engines)! > > I can add one thing to your comment about not blowing engines. > > In N2K2 (and N4) I used to fairly regularly blow an engine on the road > courses. Generally, I shift the WC sim car at about 8,800 rpms....when > pushing it.

In article <5p109.666734$cQ3.105839@sccrnsc01>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>In N2K2 (and N4) I used to fairly regularly blow an engine on the road >courses. Generally, I shift the WC sim car at about 8,800 rpms....when >pushing it. However, for the last six months or so, I've been using a >clutch to upshift.....no clutch and throttle blip to downshift. Same racing >sim....(N2K2)....no blown engines since using a clutch pedal in this manner >(I learned this technique...watching the in-car foot cam of Mark Martin >running at Sears. Bill Elliott uses the same technique too. I don't know >if this has any significance....but I didn't really realize this until just >now....reading your post.

Even though my pedals have a clutch pedal, I don't use it at the moment. I couldn't TELL you my shift point for a GPL car - I don't know how the numbers(RPM) correspond to the dash gauge. I usually try to shift at about 11 o'clock(maybe 10:30) on the dial. That's usually where my ears tell me I should be shifting. The others have suggested closer to 12 o'clock. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <_7c09.773$[email hidden]>, "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> writes: >If you are approaching a corner, and you scream "Oh Shit"... your shift >point is BEFORE this. Repeat process until you make it through the corner. ><VBG> I thought that was your BRAKE point...? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

By this point the brake point is irrelevant. =) -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <_7c09.773$[email hidden]>, "Scott B. Husted" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >If you are approaching a corner, and you scream "Oh Shit"... your shift > >point is BEFORE this. Repeat process until you make it through the corner. > ><VBG> > > I thought that was your BRAKE point...? > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

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> > In article <_7c09.773$[email hidden]>, "Scott B. Husted" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >If you are approaching a corner, and you scream "Oh Shit"... your shift > >point is BEFORE this. Repeat process until you make it through the corner. > ><VBG> > > I thought that was your BRAKE point...?

....most other people have realized this Eldred, even you :-), but not Husted, after all these years he's still mixing up braking points and shift points, like I said, if you get beaten by Husted you're in a *very* exclusive club Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

> >If you are approaching a corner, and you scream "Oh Shit"... your shift > >point is BEFORE this. Repeat process until you make it through the corner. > ><VBG> > I thought that was your BRAKE point...? ....most other people have realized this Eldred, even you :-), but not Husted, after all these years he's still mixing up braking points and shift points, like I said, if you get beaten by Husted you're in a *very* exclusive club Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Don't you have an Aussie V8 to wreck somewhere? ;) -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Goy Larsen" <"adsales"@get topica.com> wrote in message news:ugi19.4012$[email hidden]... > EldredP wrote: > > > > In article <_7c09.773$[email hidden]>, "Scott B. Husted" > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >If you are approaching a corner, and you scream "Oh Shit"... your shift > > >point is BEFORE this. Repeat process until you make it through the corner. > > ><VBG> > > > > I thought that was your BRAKE point...? > > ....most other people have realized this Eldred, even you :-), but not > Husted, after all these years he's still mixing up braking points and > shift points, like I said, if you get beaten by Husted you're in a > *very* exclusive club > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

"Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > Don't you have an Aussie V8 to wreck somewhere? ;) If you build it I will come, paraphrased of course, if you build cars the same way you drive them....... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

> Don't you have an Aussie V8 to wreck somewhere? ;) If you build it I will come, paraphrased of course, if you build cars the same way you drive them....... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

In article <ugi19.4012$[email hidden]>, Goy Larsen <"adsales"@get topica.com> writes: >....most other people have realized this Eldred, even you :-), but not >Husted, after all these years he's still mixing up braking points and >shift points, like I said, if you get beaten by Husted you're in a >*very* exclusive club I've never raced him(to my knowledge), so I don't think I'm a member yet...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I "think" we've raced once or twice on VROC a 'long' time ago Eldred. Although I couldn't tell you the results. <g> -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <ugi19.4012$[email hidden]>, Goy Larsen > <"adsales"@get topica.com> writes: > > >....most other people have realized this Eldred, even you :-), but not > >Husted, after all these years he's still mixing up braking points and > >shift points, like I said, if you get beaten by Husted you're in a > >*very* exclusive club > > I've never raced him(to my knowledge), so I don't think I'm a member yet...<g> > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

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> > In article <ugi19.4012$[email hidden]>, Goy Larsen > <"adsales"@get topica.com> writes: > > >....most other people have realized this Eldred, even you :-), but not > >Husted, after all these years he's still mixing up braking points and > >shift points, like I said, if you get beaten by Husted you're in a > >*very* exclusive club > > I've never raced him(to my knowledge), so I don't think I'm a member yet...<g>

Well, according to your post in the other thread, you're a consistent finisher, Husted isn't, chances are you beat him by a good margin as he was stuck in some gravel trap doing "shift-R"'s Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

> >....most other people have realized this Eldred, even you :-), but not > >Husted, after all these years he's still mixing up braking points and > >shift points, like I said, if you get beaten by Husted you're in a > >*very* exclusive club > I've never raced him(to my knowledge), so I don't think I'm a member yet...<g> Well, according to your post in the other thread, you're a consistent finisher, Husted isn't, chances are you beat him by a good margin as he was stuck in some gravel trap doing "shift-R"'s Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Hey.. I think you are confused. But don't worry, at your age dementia is something you sometimes have to deal with. ;) -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Goy Larsen" <"adsales"@get topica.com> wrote in message news:QAV19.4513$[email hidden]... > EldredP wrote: > > > > In article <ugi19.4012$[email hidden]>, Goy Larsen > > <"adsales"@get topica.com> writes: > > > > >....most other people have realized this Eldred, even you :-), but not > > >Husted, after all these years he's still mixing up braking points and > > >shift points, like I said, if you get beaten by Husted you're in a > > >*very* exclusive club > > > > I've never raced him(to my knowledge), so I don't think I'm a member yet...<g> > > Well, according to your post in the other thread, you're a consistent > finisher, Husted isn't, chances are you beat him by a good margin as he > was stuck in some gravel trap doing "shift-R"'s > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

"Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > Hey.. I think you are confused. But don't worry, at your age dementia is > something you sometimes have to deal with. ;) I need to find a younger woman again Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

> Hey.. I think you are confused. But don't worry, at your age dementia is > something you sometimes have to deal with. ;) I need to find a younger woman again Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

How does that saying go....? "The great thing about teenage girls is no matter how old you get, they always stay the same age. " ;) -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Goy Larsen" <"adsales"@get topica.com> wrote in message news:WoX19.4776$[email hidden]... > "Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > > > Hey.. I think you are confused. But don't worry, at your age dementia is > > something you sometimes have to deal with. ;) > > I need to find a younger woman again > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

"Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > How does that saying go....? > > "The great thing about teenage girls is no matter how old you get, they > always stay the same age. " Yeah well, I can't say I have any desires to feel like a teenager again, but say 25 or so .... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

> How does that saying go....? > "The great thing about ***age girls is no matter how old you get, they > always stay the same age. " Yeah well, I can't say I have any desires to feel like a ***ager again, but say 25 or so .... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Who said anything about you being a teenager? Just the girl Goy! ;) -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Goy Larsen" <"adsales"@get topica.com> wrote in message news:YJX19.64$[email hidden]... > "Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > > > How does that saying go....? > > > > "The great thing about teenage girls is no matter how old you get, they > > always stay the same age. " > > Yeah well, I can't say I have any desires to feel like a teenager again, > but say 25 or so .... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

Who said anything about you being a ***ager? Just the girl Goy! ;) -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc > > How does that saying go....? > > "The great thing about ***age girls is no matter how old you get, they > > always stay the same age. " > Yeah well, I can't say I have any desires to feel like a ***ager again, > but say 25 or so .... > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > http://www.theuspits.com > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

"Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > Who said anything about you being a teenager? Just the girl Goy! ;) I strongly believe Groucho was right....... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

> Who said anything about you being a ***ager? Just the girl Goy! ;) I strongly believe Groucho was right....... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--