GPL - What the hell am I doing wrong!?

I can't seem to find another 5 seconds at Silverstone. I've looked in the newsgroup, read track guides etc, etc, but I'm stuck in the 1:34's. Sure, I'm improving my consistency, but can't seem to put it all together for a really hot lap. I think I've got the hang of the fast left handers, but I believe I'm really losing time on the slow corners like 1st corner (Copse?) and Beckett's. People say that there's no advantage to braking late - and sure enough, I tend to lock up the wheels if I do. But braking too early means I lose far too much speed. Also, if I carry too much speed into the corner, I get oversteer, or simply run wide. Is it better to apply less brake, but start braking earlier? The AI cars appear to brake much later than me, yet they don't lock up or run off the track. I'm taking the correct line into corners, but at this point I don't even know how to alter my driving style to improve the time. I can't believe car setup can gain you 5 seconds, so I really think it's the way I'm driving. Doing endless practice laps is all very well, but I need some practical suggestions on what to work on. I'd like to race online, but it's pointless at the moment as the other cars leave me in the dust. -- Cpl Hicks.

"Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > People say that there's no advantage to braking late - and > sure enough, I tend to lock up the wheels if I do. But > braking too early means I lose far too much speed. Hi Hicks :) Well, braking later (or trail braking) gains you a lot less than taking a proper exit from a corner... your top speeds on the straights will increase, and it'll affect your lap times more than staying off the brakes for another split second. And proper exit of course means proper entry, which is easier to do if you brake early enough and avoid lock ups :) That's the theoretical part, putting it in practice is another thing ;) - Igor -

Get the GPL Replay Analyzer. Don't have the URL handy but a new version just came out. What I like to do is load the baseline replays that come with the game and compare them to my best lap, looking for places where I'm losing the most time. I remember being stuck around 1:34 before getting down in the 1:29-1:30 range but honestly I can't remember what I did besides looking at the telemetry in GPLRA. Basically just looking at the time interval and velocity graphs you should be able to figure quite a bit out, at least as far as getting into the 1:30 range goes. IIRC I was braking way too early for one of the turns, taking the wrong line, and losing several seconds at just that one corner. YMMV. Jason On 2 Aug 2002 01:06:36 -0700, [email hidden] (Hicks) wrote:

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>I can't seem to find another 5 seconds at Silverstone. >I've looked in the newsgroup, read track guides etc, etc, >but I'm stuck in the 1:34's. >Sure, I'm improving my consistency, but can't seem to put >it all together for a really hot lap. >I think I've got the hang of the fast left handers, but >I believe I'm really losing time on the slow corners like >1st corner (Copse?) and Beckett's. >People say that there's no advantage to braking late - and >sure enough, I tend to lock up the wheels if I do. But >braking too early means I lose far too much speed. >Also, if I carry too much speed into the corner, I get >oversteer, or simply run wide. >Is it better to apply less brake, but start braking >earlier? The AI cars appear to brake much later than me, >yet they don't lock up or run off the track. > >I'm taking the correct line into corners, but at this point >I don't even know how to alter my driving style to improve >the time. I can't believe car setup can gain you 5 seconds, >so I really think it's the way I'm driving. Doing endless >practice laps is all very well, but I need some practical >suggestions on what to work on. > >I'd like to race online, but it's pointless at the moment >as the other cars leave me in the dust. > >-- >Cpl Hicks.

"Hicks" wrote... > I can't seem to find another 5 seconds at Silverstone. > I've looked in the newsgroup, read track guides etc, etc, > but I'm stuck in the 1:34's. > <snip> Ok... let's see you drive. Post a replay of an average "good" lap (where you don't make any large mistakes) somewhere or send it to jan *dot* verschueren *at* pandora *dot* be. I'll have a look at it over the weekend and try to point you in the right direction. You're right in saying no setup will gain you 5 seconds and you'll have to adapt your driving, but, on the other hand, I find at Silverstone the setup does have to suit your style more than at other tracks. Jan. =---

Hicks your best bet is to come to vroc and get a fast guy to goto a silverstone race with u. If im around ill be happy to help dan "Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I can't seem to find another 5 seconds at Silverstone. > I've looked in the newsgroup, read track guides etc, etc, > but I'm stuck in the 1:34's. > Sure, I'm improving my consistency, but can't seem to put > it all together for a really hot lap. > I think I've got the hang of the fast left handers, but > I believe I'm really losing time on the slow corners like > 1st corner (Copse?) and Beckett's. > People say that there's no advantage to braking late - and > sure enough, I tend to lock up the wheels if I do. But > braking too early means I lose far too much speed. > Also, if I carry too much speed into the corner, I get > oversteer, or simply run wide. > Is it better to apply less brake, but start braking > earlier? The AI cars appear to brake much later than me, > yet they don't lock up or run off the track. > > I'm taking the correct line into corners, but at this point > I don't even know how to alter my driving style to improve > the time. I can't believe car setup can gain you 5 seconds, > so I really think it's the way I'm driving. Doing endless > practice laps is all very well, but I need some practical > suggestions on what to work on. > > I'd like to race online, but it's pointless at the moment > as the other cars leave me in the dust. > > -- > Cpl Hicks.

You can race online just fine; remember, online players have the same physics, etc. you do. The AI doesn't. Humans make a lot more mistakes too :) John "Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I can't seem to find another 5 seconds at Silverstone. > I've looked in the newsgroup, read track guides etc, etc, > but I'm stuck in the 1:34's. > Sure, I'm improving my consistency, but can't seem to put > it all together for a really hot lap. > I think I've got the hang of the fast left handers, but > I believe I'm really losing time on the slow corners like > 1st corner (Copse?) and Beckett's. > People say that there's no advantage to braking late - and > sure enough, I tend to lock up the wheels if I do. But > braking too early means I lose far too much speed. > Also, if I carry too much speed into the corner, I get > oversteer, or simply run wide. > Is it better to apply less brake, but start braking > earlier? The AI cars appear to brake much later than me, > yet they don't lock up or run off the track. > > I'm taking the correct line into corners, but at this point > I don't even know how to alter my driving style to improve > the time. I can't believe car setup can gain you 5 seconds, > so I really think it's the way I'm driving. Doing endless > practice laps is all very well, but I need some practical > suggestions on what to work on. > > I'd like to race online, but it's pointless at the moment > as the other cars leave me in the dust. > > -- > Cpl Hicks.

[email hidden] (Hicks) writes:

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> I can't seem to find another 5 seconds at Silverstone. > I've looked in the newsgroup, read track guides etc, etc, > but I'm stuck in the 1:34's. > Sure, I'm improving my consistency, but can't seem to put > it all together for a really hot lap. > I think I've got the hang of the fast left handers, but > I believe I'm really losing time on the slow corners like > 1st corner (Copse?) and Beckett's.

Considerings your times, I still would guess that you have lots of time to gain in the fast shallow corners. In a 'normal' corner, messing up the corner entry isn't necessarily ruining the exit because you spend enough time in the turn allowing you to adjust your speed and line to get a good exit even if the entry is to slow. But the fast shallow corners are very different: it is absolutely mandatory to have a good entry to get a good exit because you can't get any lost speed back. And if a fast corner exits into a long straight, a slow exit is _very_ bad for your times. In the case of fast shallow corners, a good entry means bringing as much speed as possible through the apex while still allowing for maximum acceleration out of the corner. Which implies: - You have to use all of the track when turning into the corner (if you aren't, you can't go in as fast since you will turn with a shorter turn radius) - You have to make a very fast turn in (if you aren't, you will not use all of the track efficiently for turning) - You have to time the turn in exactly (since the turn in is fast you will miss the apex completely otherwise) - You have to be on the limit _all_ the way through the corner (not just from the apex and out) All of these are hard on their own, and doing it all together is even harder, which is why getting faster at Silverstone is so much fun :-) At Silverstone, this technique is most important at Chapel and Abbey because they are both fast, shallow and exit into long straights. After them comes Maggots (fast and shallow but exiting into a shorter straight) and Woodcote (fast and exiting into a long straight but not as shallow). (Also note that a fast turn in going directly to the limit implies a late turn in. Especially at Chapel it took me a long time to realize how late the turn in needed to be. Maybe the racing groove is turning in to early there.) From my own driving, I can say that it is very easy to adapt a style where you do safe corner entrys, using a rather slow turn in and staying below the limit. (A kind of "drive in, adjust and race out" style.) This probably isn't even wrong with 'normal' corners because it is going to make you a lot more consistent while only sacrificing a small amount of time into the corners. But the point is that this technique just won't do it in fast shallow corners because you have nowhere to get back the speed lost in the entry when moving on to the exit, resulting in a lower exit speed which is orders of magnitude worse than a slow entry. _ Mats Lofkvist [email hidden]

At Silverstone, there are many medium speed (2nd or 3rd gear) corners where exit speed is critical because of the long straights that follow. You need to be on the power as you cross the middle of the corner, so you will be in a 4 wheel slide through the initial corner exit. It is tricky to learn that, so download a fast replay, or go online with WinVROC and save a fast driver lap, and study the lap. Car setup is very important to ensure stability when powering out of the corner - but that alone doesn't account for 5 seconds. Entering the corner is not so important, but it does need to be a preamble to a good corner exit. If you don't slide the car and instead drive a tidy line, this will be slow. Guess you already know that :) Good luck, Keith. --------------- On 2 Aug 2002 01:06:36 -0700, [email hidden] (Hicks) wrote:

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>I can't seem to find another 5 seconds at Silverstone. >I've looked in the newsgroup, read track guides etc, etc, >but I'm stuck in the 1:34's. >Sure, I'm improving my consistency, but can't seem to put >it all together for a really hot lap. >I think I've got the hang of the fast left handers, but >I believe I'm really losing time on the slow corners like >1st corner (Copse?) and Beckett's. >People say that there's no advantage to braking late - and >sure enough, I tend to lock up the wheels if I do. But >braking too early means I lose far too much speed. >Also, if I carry too much speed into the corner, I get >oversteer, or simply run wide. >Is it better to apply less brake, but start braking >earlier? The AI cars appear to brake much later than me, >yet they don't lock up or run off the track. > >I'm taking the correct line into corners, but at this point >I don't even know how to alter my driving style to improve >the time. I can't believe car setup can gain you 5 seconds, >so I really think it's the way I'm driving. Doing endless >practice laps is all very well, but I need some practical >suggestions on what to work on. > >I'd like to race online, but it's pointless at the moment >as the other cars leave me in the dust.

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In article <[email hidden]>, Mats Lofkvist <[email hidden]> writes: >(Also note that a fast turn in going directly to the >limit implies a late turn in. Especially at Chapel >it took me a long time to realize how late the turn >in needed to be. Maybe the racing groove is turning >in to early there.) Maybe that's what's killing me... I tend to follow the groove. Plus, on some tracks I still turn in way early. I'm not sure why, but it probably has to do with my depth perception when looking at a 2D screen... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

<snip> > I'm taking the correct line into corners, but at this point > I don't even know how to alter my driving style to improve > the time. I can't believe car setup can gain you 5 seconds, > so I really think it's the way I'm driving. Doing endless > practice laps is all very well, but I need some practical > suggestions on what to work on.<snip> If you are going at the limit, and still can't get below 1.34, I think your line is wrong. You may be turning in too early, therby getting lousy exits. Lousy exits seriously hurts lap times. My usual tip is to use 3rd, 4rth and 5th gear only. I have found that if I choose a low gear, I am more reluctant to apply gas at corner exits, as the risk of spinning is high. By using a higher gear, I am able to get on the throttle earlier, hence increasing exit speeds. Try the Ferrari or the Cooper (Coventry) at Silverstone. Those cars are easy to drive, and very capable of doing sub 1.34. Jon Andersen

[email hidden] (Hicks) wrote on 02 Aug 2002: <snip> > I believe I'm really losing time on the slow corners like > 1st corner (Copse?) and Beckett's. > People say that there's no advantage to braking late - and > sure enough, I tend to lock up the wheels if I do. But > braking too early means I lose far too much speed. A very easy way to avoid that, without messing around doing the really difficult things like setting the car up better <g> is to do something approaching cadence braking - ie, don't just slam your foot on the brake and leave it there, but do brake - off - brake - off etc. You'll stop just as quickly - actually, slightly sooner - without all that tyre smoke. (I'm assuming you're using a steering wheel here, of course.) > Also, if I carry too much speed into the corner, I get > oversteer, or simply run wide. > Is it better to apply less brake, but start braking > earlier? The AI cars appear to brake much later than me, > yet they don't lock up or run off the track.<snip> Don't try to ape the AI cars - their physics model is different to human drivers'. The Parabolica at Monza is a case in point - if you try following the AI's line, you'll crash every time. Here are a few specific points that helped me - they may be useless for you, of course: * Slide, slide, slide! Use an oversteery setup (Roland Ehnstr�m's Ferrari one is my favourite) and make the most of it - even in the slower corners, I'm facing into the inside wall quite a bit of the way around the bend. * Don't drive the Lotus. It's very fast, but horribly twitchy. The Ferrari, as on most tracks, is the best compromise between speed and control, with the Cooper (Coventry) also pleasant to drive but a fair bit slower. * Cadence braking - see above. * GPL Replay Analyser (as mentioned elsewhere in this thread) is by far the best analytical utility available. You say you "believe" the slow corners are where you're losing time - GPLRA will give you the cold hard facts on that. * Maggotts is considerably faster than it looks - with the Ehnstr�m setup mentioned above, I take it in fourth, with only a lift at the end of the preceding straight (no braking required). It takes a bit of courage to do it the first time, as you spend a lot of the way around at 45 degrees to the racing line, but it does work, and can gain you a lot of time. That lot helped me get my (hotlap) times at Silverstone down from the 1:32s to the 1:28s, and you really notice that. -- "After all, a mere thousand yards... such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh. The GPL Scrapyard: http://www.btinternet.com/~gplscrapyard

Eldred , just a suggestion , but if you use GPL Camera Control Master, from here :-) http://gplforever.m4driving.sm/ Then you can 'fly' a camera down to both the fast sweepers at Chapel and Abbey and watch the replay from there .I find the zoom function especially good for 'bump' hunting:-) .. I used it a lot to get to know the layout, it's like being able to walk the track.... Just sliding is slow .. wish I still had the link to the site that carries the passage Enzo Ferrari committed to posterity describing Nuvolari 4 wheel drifting through a corner :-)) Good ole Google http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/art_of_driving.htm It is really hard to believe that the car is actually gonna do it, and as they say 'you gotta have faith' , the way that your 'pre 4 wheel drift' brain dictates you go around the corner is just gonna be slower... and because the two corners both exit onto long straights, that's a lot of time, trying to be quicker through the slow corners is more like the hobby you have while the min work is getting the drift spot on, later on, as you zone in, the inner kerbs become almost magnetic :-) jv "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, Mats Lofkvist <[email hidden]>writes:

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> > >(Also note that a fast turn in going directly to the > >limit implies a late turn in. Especially at Chapel > >it took me a long time to realize how late the turn > >in needed to be. Maybe the racing groove is turning > >in to early there.) > > Maybe that's what's killing me... I tend to follow the groove. Plus, on

some > tracks I still turn in way early. I'm not sure why, but it probably hasto do

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> with my depth perception when looking at a 2D screen... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:33:14 +0100, "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Hicks your best bet is to come to vroc and get a fast guy to goto a >silverstone race with u. If im around ill be happy to help > dan You're gonna help him to find a fast guy Dan? :) Andre

All I can say is WOW! I suck at GPL, I've had it since it came out. I love it but I'm slower than... well you know. Till tonight. Granted I'm not alien class yet but by reading this thread and *listening* to the advice here I've finally figured out 4 wheel drift. I just turned a 131 at Silver. My fastest ever. I went from 135-136 to a 131 in 15 laps. Thanks guys, any other tips besides practice? BTW I did it in a Eagle with the stock setup and 9 gallons of fuel. Chuck Keller [email hidden] www.CKRacing.com page 76 of the N4 Manual "A lot of people think racing is about going fast. But it's not. It's about going just slow enough to stay on the track." F1RS - "Hicks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I can't seem to find another 5 seconds at Silverstone. > I've looked in the newsgroup, read track guides etc, etc, > but I'm stuck in the 1:34's. > Sure, I'm improving my consistency, but can't seem to put > it all together for a really hot lap. > I think I've got the hang of the fast left handers, but > I believe I'm really losing time on the slow corners like > 1st corner (Copse?) and Beckett's. > People say that there's no advantage to braking late - and > sure enough, I tend to lock up the wheels if I do. But > braking too early means I lose far too much speed. > Also, if I carry too much speed into the corner, I get > oversteer, or simply run wide. > Is it better to apply less brake, but start braking > earlier? The AI cars appear to brake much later than me, > yet they don't lock up or run off the track. > > I'm taking the correct line into corners, but at this point > I don't even know how to alter my driving style to improve > the time. I can't believe car setup can gain you 5 seconds, > so I really think it's the way I'm driving. Doing endless > practice laps is all very well, but I need some practical > suggestions on what to work on. > > I'd like to race online, but it's pointless at the moment > as the other cars leave me in the dust. > > -- > Cpl Hicks.

"ckr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aihsul$13npfh$[email hidden]... > All I can say is WOW! > > I suck at GPL, I've had it since it came out. I love it but I'm slower > than... well you know. > > Till tonight. Granted I'm not alien class yet but by reading this threadand > *listening* to the advice here I've finally figured out 4 wheel drift. I > just turned a 131 at Silver. My fastest ever. I went from 135-136 to a 131 > in 15 laps. > > Thanks guys, any other tips besides practice? BTW I did it in a Eagle with > the stock setup and 9 gallons of fuel. Nice one!! Now go practice it some more ;-) Malc.

Try the Lotus and about 4 gal. of fuel. ;o) "ckr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aihsul$13npfh$[email hidden]... > > Thanks guys, any other tips besides practice? BTW I did it in a Eaglewith > the stock setup and 9 gallons of fuel. >

ckr <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aihsul$13npfh$[email hidden]...

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> All I can say is WOW! > > I suck at GPL, I've had it since it came out. I love it but I'm slower > than... well you know. > > Till tonight. Granted I'm not alien class yet but by reading this thread and > *listening* to the advice here I've finally figured out 4 wheel drift. I > just turned a 131 at Silver. My fastest ever. I went from 135-136 to a 131 > in 15 laps. > > Thanks guys, any other tips besides practice? BTW I did it in a Eagle with > the stock setup and 9 gallons of fuel.

You've had GPL since it came out and you're still using the stock setups? At least go get ALison Hine's setups from her Eaglewoman site, you can easily knock another sec off of your time using a decent stable setup. -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash

In article <Tg839.23781$[email hidden]>, "Biz" <[email hidden]> writes: >You've had GPL since it came out and you're still using the stock setups? At >least go get ALison >Hine's setups from her Eaglewoman site, you can easily knock another sec off >of your time using a >decent stable setup. Actually, several people have posted that the default setups are MORE than capable of going negative... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In article <Tg839.23781$[email hidden]>, "Biz" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >You've had GPL since it came out and you're still using the stock setups? At > >least go get ALison > >Hine's setups from her Eaglewoman site, you can easily knock another sec off > >of your time using a > >decent stable setup. > > Actually, several people have posted that the default setups are MORE than > capable of going negative... > > Eldred >

I'm in the 18's, but it's been a couple years, and all of my times are based on actually racing and not hot-lapping. Defaut setups can get you into the negatives? Not this redneck... -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

"ckr" wrote...

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> All I can say is WOW! > > I suck at GPL, I've had it since it came out. I love it but > I'm slower than... well you know. > > Till tonight. Granted I'm not alien class yet but by reading > this thread and *listening* to the advice here I've finally > figured out 4 wheel drift. I just turned a 131 at Silver. My > fastest ever. I went from 135-136 to a 131 in 15 laps. > > Thanks guys, any other tips besides practice? BTW I did it > in a Eagle with the stock setup and 9 gallons of fuel.

If you're serious about going for the 1m30s mark, I think it's time to either try some other setups (as suggested) or to try and adapt the default so they roll better through the corners.. Also, you should start using the technique in the stock car as well. Pays dividends if you have to push that little bit extra at places like Martinsville, IMS, the roadies (of course), etc... Jan. =---

In article <Rla39.46821$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> "ckr" wrote... > > All I can say is WOW! > > > > I suck at GPL, I've had it since it came out. I love it but > > I'm slower than... well you know. > > > > Till tonight. Granted I'm not alien class yet but by reading > > this thread and *listening* to the advice here I've finally > > figured out 4 wheel drift. I just turned a 131 at Silver. My > > fastest ever. I went from 135-136 to a 131 in 15 laps. > > > > Thanks guys, any other tips besides practice? BTW I did it > > in a Eagle with the stock setup and 9 gallons of fuel. > > If you're serious about going for the 1m30s mark, I think it's time to > either try some other setups (as suggested) or to try and adapt the default > so they roll better through the corners.. > > Also, you should start using the technique in the stock car as well. Pays > dividends if you have to push that little bit extra at places like > Martinsville, IMS, the roadies (of course), etc... > > Jan. > =--- > > >

That's okay, but you have to also consider that in NR2K2, tire wear ius modelled much more aggressively than in GPL. If you push too hard into or thru the turns, you'll chew the right front tire up faster than you normally would. -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

"John Simmons" wrote... > > <snip> > That's okay, but you have to also consider that in NR2K2, > tire wear is modelled much more aggressively than in GPL. > If you push too hard into or thru the turns, you'll chew > the right front tire up faster than you normally would. Hmmm... yes, but for one I hope I made clear this is for emergency use only (as it's more difficult due to asymmetric set-up and less forgiving tyres) and, secondly, I'm talking about drifting, not putting down rubber. ;-) Besides, seeing as it's impossible to set up a good drift if you go in too hot and drifting out of a turn actually unloads the front of the car, I don't see how the RF should suffer any more than it already does. Jan. =---

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >I'm in the 18's, but it's been a couple years, and all of my times are >based on actually racing and not hot-lapping. Defaut setups can get you >into the negatives? Not this redneck... Well, not by me either. But it CAN be done. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I haven't done many laps this weekend, but I'm still working towards YASOMTA. Jan - very kind offer, I may take you up on that. -- Cpl Hicks

In article <[email hidden]>, Marc Fraioli <[email hidden]> writes:

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>On Sun, 04 Aug 2002 19:41:37 -0400, EldredP wrote: > >> In article <[email hidden]>, John >> Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >> >>>I'm in the 18's, but it's been a couple years, and all of my times are >>>based on actually racing and not hot-lapping. Defaut setups can get you >>>into the negatives? Not this redneck... >> >> Well, not by me either. But it CAN be done. > >Just because it can be done, doesn't mean there aren't easier ways to do >it as well...

<smacks Marc with a large trout> :-) The reason I said that was that a lot of faster drivers have said that people make the mistake of 'chasing' setups. They jump from one to another without really knowing what's going on. Therefore, the default setups provide a good baseline to get the car handling skills down a bit more before venturing into uncharted setup territory. Greger's setups may be lightning fast, but they're usually counter-productive to most of us humans...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.