Hard Drivin' data format

I know from my previous posts that some people here are developers working on driving games, so I just wondered - has anyone any information whatsoever on the data formats used by any version of Hard Drivin'? I would very much like to be able to import data - especially track and object data - from this game. I have discovered the PC game Hard Drivin' 2, which includes a level editor helping me to understand the concepts at play within the file format, and probably offering a route to eventually reverse engineering its formats on my own, but I was just wondering if anyone can give me a head start? -Thomas

On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 14:21:18 +0000 (UTC), "Thomas Harte" <[email hidden].[united kingdom]> wrote: >I know from my previous posts that some people here are developers working >on driving games, so I just wondered - has anyone any information whatsoever >on the data formats used by any version of Hard Drivin'? I would very much >like to be able to import data - especially track and object data - from >this game. Given its age, isn't it easier to go for SCGT-style track data? That's known, documented, and various people here use its style of storing things (including Racer). It's also targeted at todays graphics card, unlike GPL for example. I wouldn't be surprised if Hard Drivin's data structures weren't exactly targeted at today's hardware anymore... Ruud van Gaal Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/ Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

I suspect hes trying to do a conversion of Hard Driving.

On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 14:21:18 +0000 (UTC), "Thomas Harte" <[email hidden].[united kingdom]> wrote:

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>I know from my previous posts that some people here are developers working >on driving games, so I just wondered - has anyone any information whatsoever >on the data formats used by any version of Hard Drivin'? I would very much >like to be able to import data - especially track and object data - from >this game. > >I have discovered the PC game Hard Drivin' 2, which includes a level editor >helping me to understand the concepts at play within the file format, and >probably offering a route to eventually reverse engineering its formats on >my own, but I was just wondering if anyone can give me a head start?

Doug Milliken can often be seen replying to posts in this forum. I believe he worked on the vehicle dynamics of the arcade version of Hard Drivin' and Race Drivin' - both games that I absolutely adored and spent many, many quarters on. Martin Long Live Nigel Mansell!

>Given its age, isn't it easier to go for SCGT-style track data? That's >known, documented, and various people here use its style of storing >things (including Racer). >It's also targeted at todays graphics card, unlike GPL for example. I >wouldn't be surprised if Hard Drivin's data structures weren't exactly >targeted at today's hardware anymore... My aim is to be able to import the traditional Hard Drivin' track, not to actually use the data formats for the creation of any new data. Coupled with the fact that my project is pluralist towards data formats, I see nothing wrong in pursuing the structure of the Hard Drivin' data. Possibly I will just export that data to SCGT-style data. Which also explains why Hard Drivin's structures not being optimised for display today is irrelevant for my purposes, since the graphics displayed by Hard Drivin' could not overload a modern 3d accelerator however they were stored within reason. By the way, do you have a reference for the form of SCGT-style data? -Thomas

On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:29:03 +0000 (UTC), "Thomas Harte" <[email hidden].[united kingdom]> wrote:

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>>Given its age, isn't it easier to go for SCGT-style track data? That's >>known, documented, and various people here use its style of storing >>things (including Racer). >>It's also targeted at todays graphics card, unlike GPL for example. I >>wouldn't be surprised if Hard Drivin's data structures weren't exactly >>targeted at today's hardware anymore... > >My aim is to be able to import the traditional Hard Drivin' track, not to >actually use the data formats for the creation of any new data.

Ok, but often converting from an entirely different format to another can be more pain than gain. I know my GPLex was certainly not trivial to do (converts a BSP-like tree to flat 3D vertex arrays). But I guess if you want the original track, you can't get around it. :) >Which also explains why Hard Drivin's structures not being optimised for >display today is irrelevant for my purposes, since the graphics displayed by >Hard Drivin' could not overload a modern 3d accelerator however they were >stored within reason. Hehe, that's true. >By the way, do you have a reference for the form of SCGT-style data? Try http://www.theuspits.com/fbody/scgt/faqhowto.html Good luck! Ruud van Gaal Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/ Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Martin Ursua wrote:

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> On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 14:21:18 +0000 (UTC), "Thomas Harte" > <[email hidden].[united kingdom]> wrote: > > >I know from my previous posts that some people here are developers working > >on driving games, so I just wondered - has anyone any information whatsoever > >on the data formats used by any version of Hard Drivin'? I would very much > >like to be able to import data - especially track and object data - from > >this game. > Doug Milliken can often be seen replying to posts in this > forum. I believe he worked on the vehicle dynamics of the arcade > version of Hard Drivin' and Race Drivin' - both games that I > absolutely adored and spent many, many quarters on.

I have asked a couple of the original developers (I was just a consultant) to see if the "3-d world data" (I think that is what we named it) is archived anywhere, and also if Atari will release it. I think it would be cool to take a lap of the Speed Track on my PC...since my Hard Drivin (big sit-down cabinet) is on loan to a friend 6 hours from here. No promises. -- Doug Milliken www.millikenresearch.com

On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:03:01 GMT, Doug Milliken <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I have asked a couple of the original developers (I was just a consultant) >to see if the "3-d world data" (I think that is what we named it) is >archived anywhere, and also if Atari will release it. > >I think it would be cool to take a lap of the Speed Track on my PC...since >my Hard Drivin (big sit-down cabinet) is on loan to a friend 6 hours from >here. > >No promises.

Doug, Just out of curiosity, what was the cost of one of those deluxe, 3-screen units with the metal/wood gearshift? I'm not in the market for one, I'm just dreaming! Martin Long Live Nigel Mansell!

On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Martin Ursua wrote:

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> On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:03:01 GMT, Doug Milliken <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I have asked a couple of the original developers (I was just a consultant) > >to see if the "3-d world data" (I think that is what we named it) is > >archived anywhere, and also if Atari will release it. > > > >I think it would be cool to take a lap of the Speed Track on my PC...since > >my Hard Drivin (big sit-down cabinet) is on loan to a friend 6 hours from > >here. > > > >No promises. > > Doug, > > Just out of curiosity, what was the cost of one of those > deluxe, 3-screen units with the metal/wood gearshift? I'm not in the > market for one, I'm just dreaming!

No idea on the three screen. The orignal sit-down cabinet with the plastic bucket seat and direct-drive motor for the steering force had a list price (late 1980's) of about USDollar 10000 (ten thousand). They are a lot cheaper now, a friend bought a used one with no monitor for $100, and the "medium-res" monitor cost another $400 or so. After fixing several broken wires (etc) it seems to work all right. There is another news group for collectors of used arcade games, HD/RD games appear fairly often. Doesn't seem like there is any chance of getting any source released for free (I did ask). Now--if someone wanted to license HD/RD (not cheap) that might be another story.