CART @ Montreal

Is the track layout the exact same as when F1 runs there? Curious to see lap time differences. -- Tim Doyle TDRacin� Online VRW Team Owner www.VirtualRacingWorld.com

"TDRacin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BZu99.14016$[email hidden]... > Is the track layout the exact same as when F1 runs there? Curious to see > lap time differences. I believe it's exactly the same. They're about 5s a lap slower if you compare first practice for CART with first practice for F1. ( 1:15.4 vs 1:20.5) - a hell of alot better than I thought they'd do Doug

I'm watching the qualifying session on Speed Channel at the moment. They just interviewed Pat Patrick (I think it was him, could have been their team manager though) and he said that driver Oriol Servia had " gotten a hold of some good simulation stuff, and has practiced on his computer at home" the Montreal track and was "completely comfortable with the car and track - the very first time we rolled it off the truck yesterday." Wow......I would guess that meant he used F1-2002 (or 2001) for this? Did anyone else hear this? TP "TDRacin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BZu99.14016$[email hidden]...

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> Is the track layout the exact same as when F1 runs there? Curious to see > lap time differences. > > -- > > Tim Doyle > TDRacin� Online > VRW Team Owner > www.VirtualRacingWorld.com > > > > > >

Its nothing new....jacques villeneuve used GP2 to learn the GP tracks prior to his arrival in F1. I have of quite alot them do it, I heard Massa had learnt every F1 track with F1 "sims" you can buy in the shops..... Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Cuv99.135356$983.207165@rwcrnsc53... > I'm watching the qualifying session on Speed Channel at the moment. They > just interviewed Pat Patrick (I think it was him, could have been theirteam > manager though) and he said that driver Oriol Servia had " gotten a holdof > some good simulation stuff, and has practiced on his computer at home" the > Montreal track and was "completely comfortable with the car and track -the

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> very first time we rolled it off the truck yesterday." Wow......I would > guess that meant he used F1-2002 (or 2001) for this? > > Did anyone else hear this? > > TP > > > "TDRacin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:BZu99.14016$[email hidden]... > > Is the track layout the exact same as when F1 runs there? Curious to

see

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> > lap time differences. > > > > -- > > > > Tim Doyle > > TDRacin� Online > > VRW Team Owner > > www.VirtualRacingWorld.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

sorry i should proof-read more :) I have heard quite alot of the them do it.... David Powell clara.co.uk> <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Its nothing new....jacques villeneuve used GP2 to learn the GP tracksprior

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> to his arrival in F1. > > I have of quite alot them do it, I heard Massa had learnt every F1 track > with F1 "sims" you can buy in the shops..... > > Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Cuv99.135356$983.207165@rwcrnsc53... > > I'm watching the qualifying session on Speed Channel at the moment.

They > > just interviewed Pat Patrick (I think it was him, could have been their > team > > manager though) and he said that driver Oriol Servia had " gotten a hold > of > > some good simulation stuff, and has practiced on his computer at home"the

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> > Montreal track and was "completely comfortable with the car and track - > the > > very first time we rolled it off the truck yesterday." Wow......I would > > guess that meant he used F1-2002 (or 2001) for this? > > > > Did anyone else hear this? > > > > TP > > > > > > "TDRacin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:BZu99.14016$[email hidden]... > > > Is the track layout the exact same as when F1 runs there? Curious to > see > > > lap time differences. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Tim Doyle > > > TDRacin� Online > > > VRW Team Owner > > > www.VirtualRacingWorld.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Yeah, David......that's been known and talked about in the sim world for some time. But, in real-world racing.....those "stories" have been played down or discounted by the TV networks and team owners and crew chiefs. However, its becoming more and more openly talked about. That's what I was "commenting" about.....you don't usually hear that sort of thing on TV...especially so "casually stated" as it was by Pat Patrick. Two weeks ago, we got a call from Tyler Radavich at World Motors Sports, Inc in Southern CA. Their driver, Alex Figge wants us to build a simulator for him to train on over this winter, using one of their wrecked Toyota Atlantic tubs. There was a time when this call would have floored me. Now, its becoming somewhat routine....although I still get excited about them when they happen. How did Tyler hear about us? He told me that a Sparco rep had told him about seeing Jeff Gordon and Robby Gordon running in our simulators at Sears Point two years ago! Wow....word of mouth is very powerful stuff! TP "David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Its nothing new....jacques villeneuve used GP2 to learn the GP tracksprior

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> to his arrival in F1. > > I have of quite alot them do it, I heard Massa had learnt every F1 track > with F1 "sims" you can buy in the shops..... > > Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Cuv99.135356$983.207165@rwcrnsc53... > > I'm watching the qualifying session on Speed Channel at the moment.

They > > just interviewed Pat Patrick (I think it was him, could have been their > team > > manager though) and he said that driver Oriol Servia had " gotten a hold > of > > some good simulation stuff, and has practiced on his computer at home"the

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> > Montreal track and was "completely comfortable with the car and track - > the > > very first time we rolled it off the truck yesterday." Wow......I would > > guess that meant he used F1-2002 (or 2001) for this? > > > > Did anyone else hear this? > > > > TP > > > > > > "TDRacin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:BZu99.14016$[email hidden]... > > > Is the track layout the exact same as when F1 runs there? Curious to > see > > > lap time differences. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Tim Doyle > > > TDRacin� Online > > > VRW Team Owner > > > www.VirtualRacingWorld.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

They just "checkered" the qual session.......Servia is 6th! Yikes....never been there before and trained on his sim at home! Wow! TP "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Cuv99.135356$983.207165@rwcrnsc53... > I'm watching the qualifying session on Speed Channel at the moment. They > just interviewed Pat Patrick (I think it was him, could have been theirteam > manager though) and he said that driver Oriol Servia had " gotten a holdof > some good simulation stuff, and has practiced on his computer at home" the > Montreal track and was "completely comfortable with the car and track -the

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> very first time we rolled it off the truck yesterday." Wow......I would > guess that meant he used F1-2002 (or 2001) for this? > > Did anyone else hear this? > > TP > > > "TDRacin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:BZu99.14016$[email hidden]... > > Is the track layout the exact same as when F1 runs there? Curious to

see

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> > lap time differences. > > > > -- > > > > Tim Doyle > > TDRacin� Online > > VRW Team Owner > > www.VirtualRacingWorld.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Its only really the last few years when anything worth playing by a professional has been available....GP2 was borderline as to teaching you anything useful, or good for anything bar learning the direction of corners. Now titles can finally offer levels of realism that means real world techniques or style can be used by those that know, and learn by those that dont. Surely with time this will develop further..... Making a sim from a car nice idea, seen some mockups at hyperstim in holland (full scale BMW Williams) I must say I'd just buy a hyper as it means I dont have race in the garage each night :)! or dismantle the thing to take it about.... Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XQv99.225497$[email hidden]... > Yeah, David......that's been known and talked about in the sim world for > some time. But, in real-world racing.....those "stories" have been played > down or discounted by the TV networks and team owners and crew chiefs. > However, its becoming more and more openly talked about. That's what Iwas > "commenting" about.....you don't usually hear that sort of thing on > TV...especially so "casually stated" as it was by Pat Patrick. > > Two weeks ago, we got a call from Tyler Radavich at World Motors Sports,Inc > in Southern CA. Their driver, Alex Figge wants us to build a simulatorfor > him to train on over this winter, using one of their wrecked ToyotaAtlantic > tubs. There was a time when this call would have floored me. Now, its > becoming somewhat routine....although I still get excited about them when > they happen. How did Tyler hear about us? He told me that a Sparco rephad > told him about seeing Jeff Gordon and Robby Gordon running in oursimulators > at Sears Point two years ago! Wow....word of mouth is very powerfulstuff!

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> > TP > > > > > "David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Its nothing new....jacques villeneuve used GP2 to learn the GP tracks > prior > > to his arrival in F1. > > > > I have of quite alot them do it, I heard Massa had learnt every F1 track > > with F1 "sims" you can buy in the shops..... > > > > Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:Cuv99.135356$983.207165@rwcrnsc53... > > > I'm watching the qualifying session on Speed Channel at the moment. > They > > > just interviewed Pat Patrick (I think it was him, could have been

their > > team > > > manager though) and he said that driver Oriol Servia had " gotten ahold > > of > > > some good simulation stuff, and has practiced on his computer at home" > the > > > Montreal track and was "completely comfortable with the car andtrack - > > the > > > very first time we rolled it off the truck yesterday." Wow......Iwould

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> > > guess that meant he used F1-2002 (or 2001) for this? > > > > > > Did anyone else hear this? > > > > > > TP > > > > > > > > > "TDRacin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:BZu99.14016$[email hidden]... > > > > Is the track layout the exact same as when F1 runs there? Curious

to

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> > see > > > > lap time differences. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Tim Doyle > > > > TDRacin� Online > > > > VRW Team Owner > > > > www.VirtualRacingWorld.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

But youd really expect that at "national" level huh.... Like montoya, button, rakkionen, massa all out qualling more experienced teamates in there first year, adding R Schu and N Heidfeld are no second raters, isn't about 10-15laps to find the very limit at the level expected from an F1 driver, unless you pay to drive that is :) I suppose slow learners should have been weeded out before top level competition as this would be a failing that would hinder there ascent through the ranks. At least thats the case in the cut and shut nature in which motorsports here are run, very few second chances unless your wallet can help you. There are some tracks new guys stuggle with in F1, but these are generally heavily curbed tracks, which require a very specific ride over. Sometimes takes em two visits (years) to find the sweet spot schumachers been wacking over for the last 10years.... Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aSv99.135815$983.207594@rwcrnsc53... > They just "checkered" the qual session.......Servia is 6th!Yikes....never

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> been there before and trained on his sim at home! Wow! > > TP > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Cuv99.135356$983.207165@rwcrnsc53... > > I'm watching the qualifying session on Speed Channel at the moment.

They > > just interviewed Pat Patrick (I think it was him, could have been their > team > > manager though) and he said that driver Oriol Servia had " gotten a hold > of > > some good simulation stuff, and has practiced on his computer at home"the

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> > Montreal track and was "completely comfortable with the car and track - > the > > very first time we rolled it off the truck yesterday." Wow......I would > > guess that meant he used F1-2002 (or 2001) for this? > > > > Did anyone else hear this? > > > > TP > > > > > > "TDRacin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:BZu99.14016$[email hidden]... > > > Is the track layout the exact same as when F1 runs there? Curious to > see > > > lap time differences. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Tim Doyle > > > TDRacin� Online > > > VRW Team Owner > > > www.VirtualRacingWorld.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I totally agree with you. Especially the stuff about "your wallet" helping you.....SOMETIMES, but not always. Been there, done that - too. TP "David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> But youd really expect that at "national" level huh.... > > Like montoya, button, rakkionen, massa all out qualling more experienced > teamates in there first year, adding R Schu and N Heidfeld are no second > raters, isn't about 10-15laps to find the very limit at the level expected > from an F1 driver, unless you pay to drive that is :) > > I suppose slow learners should have been weeded out before top level > competition as this would be a failing that would hinder there ascent > through the ranks. At least thats the case in the cut and shut nature in > which motorsports here are run, very few second chances unless your wallet > can help you. > > There are some tracks new guys stuggle with in F1, but these are generally > heavily curbed tracks, which require a very specific ride over. Sometimes > takes em two visits (years) to find the sweet spot schumachers been

wacking

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> over for the last 10years.... > > > Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aSv99.135815$983.207594@rwcrnsc53... > > They just "checkered" the qual session.......Servia is 6th! > Yikes....never > > been there before and trained on his sim at home! Wow! > > > > TP > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:Cuv99.135356$983.207165@rwcrnsc53... > > > I'm watching the qualifying session on Speed Channel at the moment. > They > > > just interviewed Pat Patrick (I think it was him, could have been

their > > team > > > manager though) and he said that driver Oriol Servia had " gotten ahold > > of > > > some good simulation stuff, and has practiced on his computer at home" > the > > > Montreal track and was "completely comfortable with the car andtrack - > > the > > > very first time we rolled it off the truck yesterday." Wow......Iwould

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> > > guess that meant he used F1-2002 (or 2001) for this? > > > > > > Did anyone else hear this? > > > > > > TP > > > > > > > > > "TDRacin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:BZu99.14016$[email hidden]... > > > > Is the track layout the exact same as when F1 runs there? Curious

to

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> > see > > > > lap time differences. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Tim Doyle > > > > TDRacin� Online > > > > VRW Team Owner > > > > www.VirtualRacingWorld.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Back in the mid 90's Bobby Rahal came down to HP for a Q&A session (HP had just became a sponsor). I asked him about using sims for practice/learning and he basically laughed in my face. Bear in mind the current technology in 94 wasn't very good but even so he seemed to dismiss the whole idea completely. Mitch "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XQv99.225497$[email hidden]... > Yeah, David......that's been known and talked about in the sim world for > some time. But, in real-world racing.....those "stories" have been played > down or discounted by the TV networks and team owners and crew chiefs. > However, its becoming more and more openly talked about. That's what Iwas > "commenting" about.....you don't usually hear that sort of thing on > TV...especially so "casually stated" as it was by Pat Patrick. > > Two weeks ago, we got a call from Tyler Radavich at World Motors Sports,Inc > in Southern CA. Their driver, Alex Figge wants us to build a simulatorfor > him to train on over this winter, using one of their wrecked ToyotaAtlantic > tubs. There was a time when this call would have floored me. Now, its > becoming somewhat routine....although I still get excited about them when > they happen. How did Tyler hear about us? He told me that a Sparco rephad > told him about seeing Jeff Gordon and Robby Gordon running in oursimulators > at Sears Point two years ago! Wow....word of mouth is very powerfulstuff!

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> > TP > > > > > "David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Its nothing new....jacques villeneuve used GP2 to learn the GP tracks > prior > > to his arrival in F1. > > > > I have of quite alot them do it, I heard Massa had learnt every F1 track > > with F1 "sims" you can buy in the shops..... > > > > Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:Cuv99.135356$983.207165@rwcrnsc53... > > > I'm watching the qualifying session on Speed Channel at the moment. > They > > > just interviewed Pat Patrick (I think it was him, could have been

their > > team > > > manager though) and he said that driver Oriol Servia had " gotten ahold > > of > > > some good simulation stuff, and has practiced on his computer at home" > the > > > Montreal track and was "completely comfortable with the car andtrack - > > the > > > very first time we rolled it off the truck yesterday." Wow......Iwould

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> > > guess that meant he used F1-2002 (or 2001) for this? > > > > > > Did anyone else hear this? > > > > > > TP > > > > > > > > > "TDRacin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:BZu99.14016$[email hidden]... > > > > Is the track layout the exact same as when F1 runs there? Curious

to

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> > see > > > > lap time differences. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Tim Doyle > > > > TDRacin� Online > > > > VRW Team Owner > > > > www.VirtualRacingWorld.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > But youd really expect that at "national" level huh.... > > Like montoya, button, rakkionen, massa all out qualling more experienced > teamates in there first year, adding R Schu and N Heidfeld are no second > raters, isn't about 10-15laps to find the very limit at the level expected > from an F1 driver, unless you pay to drive that is :) JPM wasn't even close to RS in last year in qualifying. RS outqualified him in 11 out of 17 races, usually by a half second or more. When JPM outqualifed him, it was by a hair. Needed a better sim. This year it's 7-6 in favor of JPM, although RS outqualifies JPM by more on average, has a faster average qualifying time, and a faster average race lap time. David G Fisher

I didnt say he had the upper hand though did I, simply saying he managed to outqual him which is true, but Montoya needs to, quote "realise a GP weekend is more than a banzai lap on Saturday". The guy is still somewhat of a mystery to me, Im really getting the feeling hes not as good as he's made out to be, anyone watching any of this years GP races will remembering him cracking, and falling of the road, or coming together with 90% of the people hes raced wheel to with, the last race being a perfect example of him losin his head, then losing the track, then loosing most the aero package on the car. Brazil/Nurburgring/Hungary all results lost due to basically letting his will take control of his mind. The guy has the speed, but thesedays in F1 more than ever with software systems and huge ammounts of telemetry and technically advanced nature of the whole thing, more like NASA than a motorracing series, you also need a brain, I sadly feel the poor guy is rather lacking in the later. He'd have made a class act when balls where the main requirement to going fast though, like the 60's, 70's and 80's but today being highly intelligent and getting the most from the car is more important than your ability to withstand fear. Maybe this reflects more on his success in Cart, less technology etc, more get in and drive. Hes also very very up and down, and has bad days alot of the time compared to ralf, if Montoya were truely the great star of the future, he wouldnt crack under pressure would have learnt after two races the way to hold someone behind in F1 is simply drive 100% normally,and after 4-5years of competition in two of the highest series on earth, also he wouldnt have bad days. Youd never see Schumacher having a day bad as bad as Montoyas, even in the late 90's when he wasnt in the best machinery an awful day seemed to be 3rd. Micheals second "full" season was a WDC championship, albeit in nearly the best machinery in the field, but williams was clearly faster with the less talented Damon Hill, which offers the conclusion that the Benetton was no Williams. Even in a second year the signs were there. Signs I don't see with Montoya, I do on occasion, like with Hakkinen the genius is there, just can he use it all the time like someone called Michael. I await the next 2-3years before I feel I could make a final sumup of Montoya. Rakkionen on the other hand is proving himself greatly this year, just unluckly all those BMW enduced DNF's. David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%Jw99.38673$[email hidden]...

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> > "David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > But youd really expect that at "national" level huh.... > > > > Like montoya, button, rakkionen, massa all out qualling more experienced > > teamates in there first year, adding R Schu and N Heidfeld are no second > > raters, isn't about 10-15laps to find the very limit at the level

expected > > from an F1 driver, unless you pay to drive that is :) > > JPM wasn't even close to RS in last year in qualifying. RS outqualifiedhim > in 11 out of 17 races, usually by a half second or more. When JPM > outqualifed him, it was by a hair. > > Needed a better sim. > > This year it's 7-6 in favor of JPM, although RS outqualifies JPM by moreon > average, has a faster average qualifying time, and a faster average racelap > time. > > David G Fisher > >

Also a number of occasions it was alot more than a hair :) I seem to remember monaco Montoya pole and ralf in 5th? I cant be bothered looking at the results, but I do seem to remember Montoya being on Pole and Ralf usually on the next row after Micheal, which is more than a hair.... Granted though when monty has a bad one, he does indeed, last race he was 1sec behind. But also seems when Ralf has a bad one, Monty lets him have it. Montoya has usually throw the race away by pitstop 1 anyway after a pole and usually destroyed his car or taken someone with him (DC Nurb) so it all levels out anyway :) Thats talking even after you think carefully about how much effect the tyre situation has on the williams race performances. David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%Jw99.38673$[email hidden]...

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> > "David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > But youd really expect that at "national" level huh.... > > > > Like montoya, button, rakkionen, massa all out qualling more experienced > > teamates in there first year, adding R Schu and N Heidfeld are no second > > raters, isn't about 10-15laps to find the very limit at the level

expected > > from an F1 driver, unless you pay to drive that is :) > > JPM wasn't even close to RS in last year in qualifying. RS outqualifiedhim > in 11 out of 17 races, usually by a half second or more. When JPM > outqualifed him, it was by a hair. > > Needed a better sim. > > This year it's 7-6 in favor of JPM, although RS outqualifies JPM by moreon > average, has a faster average qualifying time, and a faster average racelap > time. > > David G Fisher > >

David G Fisher wrote:

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> > "David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > But youd really expect that at "national" level huh.... > > > > Like montoya, button, rakkionen, massa all out qualling more experienced > > teamates in there first year, adding R Schu and N Heidfeld are no second > > raters, isn't about 10-15laps to find the very limit at the level expected > > from an F1 driver, unless you pay to drive that is :) > > JPM wasn't even close to RS in last year in qualifying. RS outqualified him > in 11 out of 17 races, usually by a half second or more. When JPM > outqualifed him, it was by a hair. > > Needed a better sim. > > This year it's 7-6 in favor of JPM, although RS outqualifies JPM by more on > average, has a faster average qualifying time, and a faster average race lap > time.

Just curious, how many times has Ralf outqualified Michael and put his car on the pole this year ? :-) Ralf may be the "smarter" driver of the two, for now, but I know at least one important person who believes JPM to be "an outstanding talent" Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

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> > But youd really expect that at "national" level huh.... > > Like montoya, button, rakkionen, massa all out qualling more experienced > > teamates in there first year, adding R Schu and N Heidfeld are no second > > raters, isn't about 10-15laps to find the very limit at the level expected > > from an F1 driver, unless you pay to drive that is :) > JPM wasn't even close to RS in last year in qualifying. RS outqualified him > in 11 out of 17 races, usually by a half second or more. When JPM > outqualifed him, it was by a hair. > Needed a better sim. > This year it's 7-6 in favor of JPM, although RS outqualifies JPM by more on > average, has a faster average qualifying time, and a faster average race lap > time.

Just curious, how many times has Ralf outqualified Michael and put his car on the pole this year ? :-) Ralf may be the "smarter" driver of the two, for now, but I know at least one important person who believes JPM to be "an outstanding talent" Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > Its nothing new....jacques villeneuve used GP2 to learn the GP tracksprior > to his arrival in F1. We know David ;) I mean that's like an old story here. Just in NASCAR, I can list dozens of Winston Cup drivers who do now race simulations for either their entertainment or for something related to their driving. Same in F1, just see at Goodwood the presence of Ralf Schumacher at the booth. I got wrecked by Dale Earnhardt Jr. (and wrecked him) a couple of times, FYI 8) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

I know a few of the pundits who are now questioning there initial conceptions of Montoya, it'll be interesting to see how he progresses. Like old Senna vs Prost, Senna genius over a single lap, but a flawed racer (still in the very top %, but there were flaws, leading races and prone to moments of stupidity, and this is a common fault used when talking about flaws in ayrton). Where on the other hand Prost was always gentle of machine and tyres, and usual able to watch and beat senna through having a far superior ability to drive with his brain, and remain uneffected by his will. Nigel Roebuck (F1 editor of autosport) says he can only remember 5 oe so occasions in his entire career in any session that Prost spun a car on his own. Where Senna was regarded as the outstanding talent because he had raw speed, and he was outstanding sure, but the approach of Prost was equally effective come sunday and I;d go so far as to say a small % better overall, and remember they drove against each in the same team. Id put Montoya in the Senna type style, but hes not as consistant in his approach. Imagine the brains of Senna and the cunning and extremely controlled method in which prost applied himself both during and after races, youd have the ultimate racing driver for the modern era, or a Driver made of the best qualities displayed in two drivers who could be argued as the best ever. I see holes in Montoyas armour in alot of areas (more than senna), and he's had more than enough time if he is truely great to have found some filler to put in them, or one could say, if he is truely great they wouldnt be there in the first place. But I'll be keeping an open mind on him, its just this year hes looked stupid on a number of occasions, and I dont remember my other rated drivers making rookie errors on a regular basis in a second season. He's a bit of a hothead, I hope he chills and uses the grey matter. Goy Larsen <"adsales"@get topica.com> wrote in message news:fsy99.13266$[email hidden]...

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> David G Fisher wrote: > > > > "David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > But youd really expect that at "national" level huh.... > > > > > > Like montoya, button, rakkionen, massa all out qualling more

experienced > > > teamates in there first year, adding R Schu and N Heidfeld are nosecond > > > raters, isn't about 10-15laps to find the very limit at the levelexpected > > > from an F1 driver, unless you pay to drive that is :) > > > > JPM wasn't even close to RS in last year in qualifying. RS outqualifiedhim > > in 11 out of 17 races, usually by a half second or more. When JPM > > outqualifed him, it was by a hair. > > > > Needed a better sim. > > > > This year it's 7-6 in favor of JPM, although RS outqualifies JPM by moreon > > average, has a faster average qualifying time, and a faster average racelap

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> > time. > > Just curious, how many times has Ralf outqualified Michael and put his > car on the pole this year ? :-) > > Ralf may be the "smarter" driver of the two, for now, but I know at > least one important person who believes JPM to be "an outstanding > talent" > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

"David Powell > > I know a few of the pundits who are now questioning there initial > conceptions of Montoya, it'll be interesting to see how he progresses.snip The guy I was referring to was Frank Williams who has just signed JPM for another two years Yes, JPM is a hothead and could probably use some cooling down time, but most of the other rookies aren't in a team where they're expected to take the challenge to Ferrari, except perhaps Kimi which is doing an outstanding job at McLaren, but McLaren just isn't the team it was a couple of years ago and nobody is really expecting them to fight for top honors, Williams on the other hand is generally expected to be a match for Ferrari, at certain tracks, and on the face of things, Ralf is handling that pressure a lot better than JPM, no question, but then again he's been around the block a few times already and knows how to play the game, and he's probably quite happy about the focus being on JPM, that way he can go about his business without the press looking over his shoulder all the time Yes, only time will tell, and no, I don't think JPM will be the next Prost, possibly some variant of Senna as you say, but then again, Senna won a few races in his time too :-) As for a combo of Prost and Senna's skills, I think MS is the closest thing we'll ever see to that, except that he doesn't have Prost's personality on and off the track, he has Senna's, which rubs a few people the wrong way, including me, if it wasn't for that I'd probably be a huge fan and rate him as the best modern day F1 driver and very close to being the top F1 driver ever, possibly THE best ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"David Powell snip The guy I was referring to was Frank Williams who has just signed JPM for another two years Yes, JPM is a hothead and could probably use some cooling down time, but most of the other rookies aren't in a team where they're expected to take the challenge to Ferrari, except perhaps Kimi which is doing an outstanding job at McLaren, but McLaren just isn't the team it was a couple of years ago and nobody is really expecting them to fight for top honors, Williams on the other hand is generally expected to be a match for Ferrari, at certain tracks, and on the face of things, Ralf is handling that pressure a lot better than JPM, no question, but then again he's been around the block a few times already and knows how to play the game, and he's probably quite happy about the focus being on JPM, that way he can go about his business without the press looking over his shoulder all the time Yes, only time will tell, and no, I don't think JPM will be the next Prost, possibly some variant of Senna as you say, but then again, Senna won a few races in his time too :-) As for a combo of Prost and Senna's skills, I think MS is the closest thing we'll ever see to that, except that he doesn't have Prost's personality on and off the track, he has Senna's, which rubs a few people the wrong way, including me, if it wasn't for that I'd probably be a huge fan and rate him as the best modern day F1 driver and very close to being the top F1 driver ever, possibly THE best ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Michael is just german, being european i have met alot of them, i like them, but they have a very individual personality in Europe compared to alot of other countries. I love them for there very straight forward and often bullshitless approach to business. As the german would say of the english, an english person asks you to do something, a german will tell you, and if you ask him and not tell him, he will say no and think its a sign of weekness. This is a loose generalisation but gives the gist of my thoughts of Michaels attitude, if he was italian he'd be firey and latin etc. Its just a country thing I think and he didnt get where he has got being mr nice...but yes you are correct, alot of people think that of him. Yes Frank has always had a hotspot for Montoya, and he will make a top driver given the correct machine with which to do battle. Just there has been this godlike stature attached and surrounding Montoya, and I just feel at this stage we aren't quite gonna see the next Micheal or Senna, prolly something inbetween Senna and Keke Rosberg possibly, very talented, very fast, blows a bit hot and cold, and drives by the feeling in his arse as long as theres tyres left on the car. Of course thats speculation atm, but its my gut feeling. As for Micheal being the best ever, I don't think so, grids in the mid to late 70's and most of the 80's seemed at times to ooozeeeeeee talent, atm theres IMO abit of a talent problem since around 1994, alot of old cards left us that year or one after/before. mid 80s, Senna, Prost, Mansell, Piquet, Berger, and its late there were more :) but during the 90's or Schumachers era (yes a more care and team package effected era) there has only been Micheal and a guy called Hakkinen that have been fast enough to enter *that club* of drivers. Then also Mika had huge gaps in his package, but huge natural speed. Michael has almost stood alone during his reign for me. In the 80's this was a very different story. Driver are also living longer now, theres less openings in top teams compared to the 70's as there was a yearly cull of drivers (sad as was). This means maybe its just part of the era Michael has driven in and you can;t take him down for that reason but.... As for the best ever cant do it. its just a club, but lets say Prost is often overlooked in top10 lists and he wasnt spectacular to watch, never spun or crashed etc. Often its the tightrope drama driver that take the hearts of fans, like Gilles, godlike gift (maybe the most gifted ever) but was very much a race to race driver not a look carefully at damage limitation for a championhip driver. Perfect for firey italian and latin types they adored gilles like no other, the was for them the modern day gladiator, prost at ferrari? wouldnt have been loved. Also IMO Michael has reallllllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy chilled since he won the champ for ferrari, he used to rub people up and was arrogant but this has completely evaporated in the last 2years IMO. He's now a perfect politician who never gets involved in spats, or bitching sessions, to me now hes like the prince of F1, setting an example to everyone. But, of course its easy to be an embassador for F1 after your 5th WDC and a triple WDC run, wheres the pressure to prove that drove the young Michael to strut like a chicken down the spa pitlane to assault David Coulthard after he took him out the GP in 97?....lol a classic incident in his career, and great insight into the fire inside that driver someone like Michael to reach the levels he has, its all part of the mindset. Very much present as you say with senna. thats it i think..... Goy Larsen <"adsales"@get topica.com> wrote in message news:eEz99.13287$[email hidden]...

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> "David Powell > > > > I know a few of the pundits who are now questioning there initial > > conceptions of Montoya, it'll be interesting to see how he progresses. > snip > > The guy I was referring to was Frank Williams who has just signed JPM > for another two years > > Yes, JPM is a hothead and could probably use some cooling down time, but > most of the other rookies aren't in a team where they're expected to > take the challenge to Ferrari, except perhaps Kimi which is doing an > outstanding job at McLaren, but McLaren just isn't the team it was a > couple of years ago and nobody is really expecting them to fight for top > honors, Williams on the other hand is generally expected to be a match > for Ferrari, at certain tracks, and on the face of things, Ralf is > handling that pressure a lot better than JPM, no question, but then > again he's been around the block a few times already and knows how to > play the game, and he's probably quite happy about the focus being on > JPM, that way he can go about his business without the press looking > over his shoulder all the time > > Yes, only time will tell, and no, I don't think JPM will be the next > Prost, possibly some variant of Senna as you say, but then again, Senna > won a few races in his time too :-) > > As for a combo of Prost and Senna's skills, I think MS is the closest > thing we'll ever see to that, except that he doesn't have Prost's > personality on and off the track, he has Senna's, which rubs a few > people the wrong way, including me, if it wasn't for that I'd probably > be a huge fan and rate him as the best modern day F1 driver and very > close to being the top F1 driver ever, possibly THE best ? > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

Yes it is the same track. JPM pole was 1m12.836s. Today's da Matta pole was 1:19.465s. "TDRacin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BZu99.14016$[email hidden]...

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> Is the track layout the exact same as when F1 runs there? Curious to see > lap time differences. > > -- > > Tim Doyle > TDRacin� Online > VRW Team Owner > www.VirtualRacingWorld.com > > > > > >

Let it be known that on Fri, 23 Aug 2002 19:35:39 +0100, "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"TDRacin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:BZu99.14016$[email hidden]... >> Is the track layout the exact same as when F1 runs there? Curious to see >> lap time differences. > >I believe it's exactly the same. > >They're about 5s a lap slower if you compare first practice for CART with >first practice for F1. > >( 1:15.4 vs 1:20.5) - a hell of alot better than I thought they'd do

I recall hearing that even though they have that lap difference, the CART cars will hit the same top speed as the F1 cars.

Strange with all this talk about cerebral drivers and heroic drivers....why no mention of King Hiro? dave henrie

If you saw the in-car camera shots of Michael doing his qualifying lap then you saw true talent. Not only did he drive a very quick lap, he was playing with the knobs on his steering wheel the entire time. I doubt I would have even stayed on the road at highway speeds if I had been trying to adjust that many things at once. "David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I didnt say he had the upper hand though did I, simply saying he managedto > outqual him which is true, but Montoya needs to, quote "realise a GPweekend > is more than a banzai lap on Saturday". > > The guy is still somewhat of a mystery to me, Im really getting thefeeling > hes not as good as he's made out to be, anyone watching any of this yearsGP > races will remembering him cracking, and falling of the road, or coming > together with 90% of the people hes raced wheel to with, the last racebeing > a perfect example of him losin his head, then losing the track, thenloosing

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> most the aero package on the car. Brazil/Nurburgring/Hungary all results > lost due to basically letting his will take control of his mind. > > The guy has the speed, but thesedays in F1 more than ever with software > systems and huge ammounts of telemetry and technically advanced nature of > the whole thing, more like NASA than a motorracing series, you also need a > brain, I sadly feel the poor guy is rather lacking in the later. He'd have > made a class act when balls where the main requirement to going fast

though, > like the 60's, 70's and 80's but today being highly intelligent andgetting > the most from the car is more important than your ability to withstandfear.

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> > Maybe this reflects more on his success in Cart, less technology etc, more > get in and drive. > > Hes also very very up and down, and has bad days alot of the time compared > to ralf, if Montoya were truely the great star of the future, he wouldnt > crack under pressure would have learnt after two races the way to hold > someone behind in F1 is simply drive 100% normally,and after 4-5years of > competition in two of the highest series on earth, also he wouldnt have

bad > days. Youd never see Schumacher having a day bad as bad as Montoyas, evenin > the late 90's when he wasnt in the best machinery an awful day seemed tobe > 3rd. > > Micheals second "full" season was a WDC championship, albeit in nearly the > best machinery in the field, but williams was clearly faster with the less > talented Damon Hill, which offers the conclusion that the Benetton was no > Williams. Even in a second year the signs were there. Signs I don't seewith > Montoya, I do on occasion, like with Hakkinen the genius is there, justcan

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> he use it all the time like someone called Michael. > > I await the next 2-3years before I feel I could make a final sumup of > Montoya. > > Rakkionen on the other hand is proving himself greatly this year, just > unluckly all those BMW enduced DNF's. > > David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:%Jw99.38673$[email hidden]... > > > > "David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > But youd really expect that at "national" level huh.... > > > > > > Like montoya, button, rakkionen, massa all out qualling more

experienced > > > teamates in there first year, adding R Schu and N Heidfeld are nosecond

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> > > raters, isn't about 10-15laps to find the very limit at the level > expected > > > from an F1 driver, unless you pay to drive that is :) > > > > JPM wasn't even close to RS in last year in qualifying. RS outqualified > him > > in 11 out of 17 races, usually by a half second or more. When JPM > > outqualifed him, it was by a hair. > > > > Needed a better sim. > > > > This year it's 7-6 in favor of JPM, although RS outqualifies JPM by more > on > > average, has a faster average qualifying time, and a faster average race > lap > > time. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > >

"Wandatin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:H5E99.161168$me6.20541@sccrnsc01... > If you saw the in-car camera shots of Michael doing his qualifying lapthen > you saw true talent. Not only did he drive a very quick lap, he wasplaying > with the knobs on his steering wheel the entire time. I doubt I wouldhave > even stayed on the road at highway speeds if I had been trying to adjust > that many things at once. If I recall correctly, that was not a hotlap...he was just cruising as he reset the car. Still that cruising was probably 120mph or so....hehe nothing different than talking on your cell phone while changing a cd and eating a Big Mac and slurping on a Coke all at once. dave henrie

who? Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZfD99.141558$983.218509@rwcrnsc53... > Strange with all this talk about cerebral drivers and heroic > drivers....why no mention of King Hiro? > > dave henrie > >

"David Powell > > who? Hiro Matsushita, drove a Panasonic sponsored car (obviously) in the CART series for a number of years, gave the term moveable chicane a new meaning I'll give him one thing though, he was pretty good at looking in his mirrors and staying out of everyone's way....most of the time, but then again, being lapped 5 times on average on a road course does give you a fair bit of practice, he'd never get an F1 license in a million years and was the living proof that you can take the regulations too far the other way, but, with that family name I guess you can buy your way into anything....except F1, since Bernie has more money than most people :-), he's now a team owner I believe Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

ahh I guessed he was a Cart driver, as being European Cart really means nowt to me, as (A) I dont know anything about it, (B) i hate ovals and (C) its not on TV. shame for places like rockingham built in the UK, oval track, seen It on TV for various events, Ascar, FF, F3 etc, but ive yet to see anyone in the stands watching. Guess we just aint a country of oval lovers. Im sure Rockingham will be our last oval and our first (unless you rememeber who started oval racing at brooklands). Fine be me they could built a spot on road course there, not a mickey mouse infield track and 4 left turns :) On the other side of the scale its great when 100,000 bikers go to brands hatch for the World Superbikes, now thats a top day out! where you can sit behind the armco in places and smell the brakes etc.... Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "David Powell > > > > who? > > Hiro Matsushita, drove a Panasonic sponsored car (obviously) in the CART > series for a number of years, gave the term moveable chicane a new > meaning > > I'll give him one thing though, he was pretty good at looking in his > mirrors and staying out of everyone's way....most of the time, but then > again, being lapped 5 times on average on a road course does give you a > fair bit of practice, he'd never get an F1 license in a million years > and was the living proof that you can take the regulations too far the > other way, but, with that family name I guess you can buy your way into > anything....except F1, since Bernie has more money than most people :-), > he's now a team owner I believe > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

"David Powell > > ahh I guessed he was a Cart driver, as being European Cart really means nowt > to me, as (A) I dont know anything about it, (B) i hate ovals and (C) its > not on TV. Well.... A is your loss B CART is not about ovals, it had road and street courses as well C It is on TV, just not live anymore, but it used to be As a fellow European I think it's a grand shame it has declined over the past couple of years, I used to favor CART over F1, especially in Alex Zanardi's heydays :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

>"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote > Hiro Matsushita, drove a Panasonic sponsored car (obviously) in the CART > series for a number of years, gave the term moveable chicane a new > meaning Nicknamed "King Hiro" after the famous incident between him and Nigel Mansell (at indianapolis when Hiro stopped over his car I think), when the radio only caught the end of the conversation which went "...king hiro". You can easily speculate on what was before that ;-D

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > ahh I guessed he was a Cart driver, as being European Cart really meansnowt > to me, as (A) I dont know anything about it "European Cart"? ?? Are you sure you're talking about the good series here? > (B) i hate ovals and ? I think you're misleading the IRL for the CART series. Or perhaps just your knowledge of motorsports in general <G> .:) The 2002 season has only 5 oval races in 19 total races, and the 2003 schedules only has 3 oval tracks in 20 races (Chicago won't be an oval anymore, and the European race also). (C) its > not on TV. It is on TV even in England. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Im talking about the top level US series CART, this weekend at montreal? P.S its not on TV in england, its maybe on sky TV, but not terrestrial... ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3_R99.73464$[email hidden]... > >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > > ahh I guessed he was a Cart driver, as being European Cart really means > nowt > > to me, as (A) I dont know anything about it > > "European Cart"? ?? Are you sure you're talking about the good serieshere? > > > (B) i hate ovals and > > ? I think you're misleading the IRL for the CART series. Or perhaps just > your knowledge of motorsports in general <G> .:) The 2002 season hasonly > 5 oval races in 19 total races, and the 2003 schedules only has 3 oval > tracks in 20 races (Chicago won't be an oval anymore, and the Europeanrace

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> also). > > > (C) its > > not on TV. > > It is on TV even in England. > > > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > >

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > Im talking about the top level US series CART, this weekend at montreal? Yeah but you wrote "European Cart". It's not really an European series. Montreal is not in Europe, it's my city ;) It's also not an oval series, like I wrote. It's really your loss, 'cause if you could see it you would understand why we want a CART sim! > >ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote > >The 2002 season has only > > 5 oval races in 19 total races, and the 2003 schedules only has 3 oval > > tracks in 20 races (Chicago won't be an oval anymore, and the Europeanrace > > also).

He meant that he was European, he just missed the comma before CART -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sAS99.73483$[email hidden]... > >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > > Im talking about the top level US series CART, this weekend at montreal? > > Yeah but you wrote "European Cart". It's not really an European series. > Montreal is not in Europe, it's my city ;) > > > It's also not an oval series, like I wrote. It's really your loss, 'cause > if you could see it you would understand why we want a CART sim! > > > > >ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote

you took it out of context. maybe i should punctuate so you understand better "as being European, Cart means nowt to me"......ie, im european not connected to the USA so I dont really find it entertaining, so I don't know much about it. there is no such series as European Cart.... ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sAS99.73483$[email hidden]...

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> >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > > Im talking about the top level US series CART, this weekend at montreal? > > Yeah but you wrote "European Cart". It's not really an European series. > Montreal is not in Europe, it's my city ;) > > > It's also not an oval series, like I wrote. It's really your loss, 'cause > if you could see it you would understand why we want a CART sim! > > > > >ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote > > >The 2002 season has only > > > 5 oval races in 19 total races, and the 2003 schedules only has 3 oval > > > tracks in 20 races (Chicago won't be an oval anymore, and the European > race > > > also). > > > > > >

you dont half nit pic don't, you should get out more :) Also, I know what CART is, and probably have an above average knowledge for a european of it....I do understand it would make a good simulation (less ovals the better). Im fully aware of the all the tracks it uses....but the fact it contains 5 ovals races is enough to tarnish the sim, gimme F1 1970-1989 any year over Cart....if not just for the romantic memories of racing fine cars from a series where the finest drivers have driven in. I find it hard to get into CART as to me its just an American National series, and the drivers hold little of no place in my greats list with the exception of Mario Andretti for versitility not overall genuis of any "great" measure, and Emerson Fittipaldi, mainly Emerson as he was top draw F1 driver, before heading nearer home. As for my loss, not really i've watched plenty of CART races in the past, I can't actually bring myself to watch it, good race happening, someones earned a 10sec lead, and ALWAYS seems to appear a yellow pace car, bunching them up again ruining the race. Its to contrived for me, if Stewart wins at nurbring in 1968 by 4mins, I'd have enjoyed every minute of watching drive. I don't like the way CART is run, I like to see 1race per race, not a series of races between yellows. In F1 as soon as the pace car appears(thankfully rarely) I have lost interest in the race, as for me a driver gets one chance and a pace car session just ruins it. Sadly CART has so many yellow (not all the time) I used to switch over out of frustration. But thats just MY FINAL OPINION ! ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sAS99.73483$[email hidden]...

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> >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > > Im talking about the top level US series CART, this weekend at montreal? > > Yeah but you wrote "European Cart". It's not really an European series. > Montreal is not in Europe, it's my city ;) > > > It's also not an oval series, like I wrote. It's really your loss, 'cause > if you could see it you would understand why we want a CART sim! > > > > >ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote > > >The 2002 season has only > > > 5 oval races in 19 total races, and the 2003 schedules only has 3 oval > > > tracks in 20 races (Chicago won't be an oval anymore, and the European > race > > > also). > > > > > >

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > you took it out of context. maybe i should punctuate so you understand > better Well, maybe you should just type better and read your post before sending them <G> :-| > there is no such series as European Cart.... Which is exactly why I wrote what I did!!

"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > but the fact it contains 5 ovals races is enough to tarnish the sim, gimmeF1 > 1970-1989 any year over Cart... Okay good point. Yeah. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

In article <vVR99.73462$[email hidden]>, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> writes: >Nicknamed "King Hiro" after the famous incident between him and Nigel >Mansell (at indianapolis when Hiro stopped over his car I think), when the >radio only caught the end of the conversation which went "...king hiro". >You can easily speculate on what was before that ;-D I thought Emmo gave him that nickname...? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <vVR99.73462$[email hidden]>, "ymenard" ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>Nicknamed "King Hiro" after the famous incident between him and Nigel >>Mansell (at indianapolis when Hiro stopped over his car I think), when the >>radio only caught the end of the conversation which went "...king hiro". >>You can easily speculate on what was before that ;-D > >I thought Emmo gave him that nickname...?

Yes, you are correct, it was Fittipaldi. And the "famous" Mansell incident at Indy was actually Denis Vitolo, not Hiro, landing on top of Nigel's car. Why can't people actually check the facts before attempting to answer a question instead of making themselves look like a fool by just inventing an answer?

"bob" > > Why can't people actually check the facts before attempting to answer > a question instead of making themselves look like a fool by just > inventing an answer? ssshhhh Bob....you are giving away my secrets! dave henrie

"bob" > ssshhhh Bob....you are giving away my secrets! dave henrie

>"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote > >Nicknamed "King Hiro" after the famous incident between him and Nigel > >Mansell (at indianapolis when Hiro stopped over his car I think), whenthe > >radio only caught the end of the conversation which went "...king hiro". > >You can easily speculate on what was before that ;-D > > I thought Emmo gave him that nickname...? Yeah, sorry I switched an old fart for another one ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"bob" <[email hidden]> wrote > Why can't people actually check the facts before attempting to answer > a question instead of making themselves look like a fool by just > inventing an answer? GFY -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

In article <[email hidden]>, bob <[email hidden]> writes: >Yes, you are correct, it was Fittipaldi. And the "famous" Mansell >incident at Indy was actually Denis Vitolo, not Hiro, landing on top >of Nigel's car. > I don't remember the Vitolo/Mansell incident at ALL. I'll have to look that one up. >Why can't people actually check the facts before attempting to answer >a question instead of making themselves look like a fool by just >inventing an answer? I'm sure I've given a wrong answer or two before, so I can't be too harsh if others do... :-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story !! ;) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> "bob" <[email hidden]> wrote > Why can't people actually check the facts before attempting to answer > a question instead of making themselves look like a fool by just > inventing an answer? > >

I drink to that Ian *ching* Ian P <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:akb5g9$osc$[email hidden]...

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> Never let the truth get in the way of a good story !! ;) > > -- > > Ian P > <email invalid due to spam> > > > "bob" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Why can't people actually check the facts before attempting to answer > > a question instead of making themselves look like a fool by just > > inventing an answer? > > > > > >

"EldredP" > > >Yes, you are correct, it was Fittipaldi. And the "famous" Mansell > >incident at Indy was actually Denis Vitolo, not Hiro, landing on top > >of Nigel's car. > > > > I don't remember the Vitolo/Mansell incident at ALL. I'll have to lookthat > one up. > going from 'fuzzy' memory: (I think it was)Nigel's first Indy...he led for much of the race...the Newman Haas Lola(fords?) were the Speedway chassis/engine combo to beat that year. Dennis Vitolo was one of those underfunded privateer dreamers who hocked his house and all his belongings for a shot at Indy. There was a caution, most of the field pitted. As they were exiting the pits on that narrow pit lane between turns one and two...Vitolo put a wheel off and began to spin...he hit a car, possibly Nigels, and when the rotating tires rolled together Vitolo's car got catepulted on top of Mansell. I beleive one of the car's radiators was also damaged and 'ol Nige got a burned butt in the process (maybe not PERFECT but it should give you the gist of the incident.) dave henrie

On Fri, 23 Aug 2002 18:51:14 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Wow......I would >guess that meant he used F1-2002 (or 2001) for this? I hope not. As Frank has pointed out elsewhere, the track model for Montreal is horrible in both sims. Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 05:23:11 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote: > If I recall correctly, that was not a hotlap...he was just cruising >as he reset the car. Still that cruising was probably 120mph or so....hehe >nothing different than talking on your cell phone while changing a cd and >eating a Big Mac and slurping on a Coke all at once. I like Michael's quote after the last race, when he was discussing his fastest lap. I can't find the exact quote, but he noted that he was just cruising around bored about 4 seconds off the pace before asking Todt what the lap record was, breaking it, and settling back. If Schumacher can finish second while driving the F-2002 a full 4 seconds off his limit, I really hate to think of what next year is going to be like. Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

"David Powell

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> > Michael is just german, being european i have met alot of them, i like them, > but they have a very individual personality in Europe compared to alot of > other countries. I love them for there very straight forward and often > bullshitless approach to business. As the german would say of the english, > an english person asks you to do something, a german will tell you, and if > you ask him and not tell him, he will say no and think its a sign of > weekness. This is a loose generalisation but gives the gist of my thoughts > of Michaels attitude, if he was italian he'd be firey and latin etc. > > Its just a country thing I think and he didnt get where he has got being mr > nice...but yes you are correct, alot of people think that of him.

Sorry, I don't buy the Country thing, I've met quite a few Germans over the years and none of them have been arrogant assholes in MS's league, or at least the way *I*'ve seen him on and off the track Quite the opposite actually, I've even been invited to people's homes having never met them before, several vacations in Germany and a couple of business trips really hasn't shown anything of that, polite and correct and perhaps a little "cold" at first, but once I've convinced them I'm not from England I've never had any problems :-) I'm not kidding actually, back in 96 my brother and I took my old Opel Manta down to Germany to visit Herr Mantzel and the other nice people at Mantzel Opel Tuning, and we needed a hotel room or two for three days, the first place where we asked we were told the place was full, and when we asked if he knew any other hotels that had any rooms he said they were prolly full as well, there was a convention in town So I turned to my brother and asked what he wanted to do, in Norwegian, I'd been speaking English with hotel guy as my German isn't all it could have been, and then the guy behind the counter suddenly said "Oh, you're not English, where are you from ?" "Norway" "Wait a couple of minutes and I'll arrange a room for you at a hotel nearby" You could have knocked me over with a feather, sure enough, 5 mins later we had rooms at a B&B/hotel within walking distance of Herr Mantzel's workshop, good price too, we just had to reassure the landlady we weren't English by showing our passports when we checked in, but then again us Norwegians have always gotten along very well with Germans, except for a few years back in the 1940's :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

In article <Qf9a9.265421$[email hidden]>, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> There was a caution, most of the field pitted. As they were exiting the >pits on that narrow pit lane between turns one and two...Vitolo put a wheel >off and began to spin...he hit a car, possibly Nigels, and when the rotating >tires rolled together Vitolo's car got catepulted on top of Mansell. I >beleive one of the car's radiators was also damaged and 'ol Nige got a >burned butt in the process > (maybe not PERFECT but it should give you the gist of the incident.)

Oh, I remember that NOW. There was a camera on Nigell's car, and we got to see that replay...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> If Schumacher can finish second while driving the F-2002 a full 4 > seconds off his limit, I really hate to think of what next year is > going to be like. > > Jason More of the same? Do you not feel the Ferrari has been dominate this year?

"> Yes it is the same track. JPM pole was 1m12.836s. Today's da Matta pole was > 1:19.465s. Thats all good, but what I really find impressive is Yoong's qualifing time was 1m17.347, still 2 seconds faster than the fastest CART car.

I think unless Michelin sort there act out, it will be more of the same, the other chassis makers on non bridgestone tyres are having a hard time atm. There not good enough to match ferrari anyway, but the tyres to do the job would help. P.S they were only 4secs of the max pace at after the last stop when the hold station call was made. Before than only 0.6 ish off the one lap MS made to show off near the end, also you forget they had been easy on the tyres for the whole last stint, so Micheal was well setup to try a blinding fastest lap. If he'd been racing at full pace before the lap, the tyres and temps etc would have dicated a more normal speed :) jlohman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NBra9.349077$[email hidden]...

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> > If Schumacher can finish second while driving the F-2002 a full 4 > > seconds off his limit, I really hate to think of what next year is > > going to be like. > > > > Jason > > More of the same? Do you not feel the Ferrari has been dominate this year? > > >

it was the outlap.... the only time a driver needs to make adjustments in a qual lap is adjust the BBias forward for faster turns, then if hes schumacher, adjust back again for maximum entry attack for the slow turns. Wandatin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:H5E99.161168$me6.20541@sccrnsc01... > If you saw the in-car camera shots of Michael doing his qualifying lapthen > you saw true talent. Not only did he drive a very quick lap, he wasplaying > with the knobs on his steering wheel the entire time. I doubt I wouldhave

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> even stayed on the road at highway speeds if I had been trying to adjust > that many things at once. > > "David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I didnt say he had the upper hand though did I, simply saying he managed > to > > outqual him which is true, but Montoya needs to, quote "realise a GP > weekend > > is more than a banzai lap on Saturday". > > > > The guy is still somewhat of a mystery to me, Im really getting the > feeling > > hes not as good as he's made out to be, anyone watching any of this

years

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> GP > > races will remembering him cracking, and falling of the road, or coming > > together with 90% of the people hes raced wheel to with, the last race > being > > a perfect example of him losin his head, then losing the track, then > loosing > > most the aero package on the car. Brazil/Nurburgring/Hungary all results > > lost due to basically letting his will take control of his mind. > > > > The guy has the speed, but thesedays in F1 more than ever with software > > systems and huge ammounts of telemetry and technically advanced nature

of > > the whole thing, more like NASA than a motorracing series, you also needa > > brain, I sadly feel the poor guy is rather lacking in the later. He'dhave

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> > made a class act when balls where the main requirement to going fast > though, > > like the 60's, 70's and 80's but today being highly intelligent and > getting > > the most from the car is more important than your ability to withstand > fear. > > > > Maybe this reflects more on his success in Cart, less technology etc,

more > > get in and drive. > > > > Hes also very very up and down, and has bad days alot of the timecompared > > to ralf, if Montoya were truely the great star of the future, he wouldnt > > crack under pressure would have learnt after two races the way to hold > > someone behind in F1 is simply drive 100% normally,and after 4-5years of > > competition in two of the highest series on earth, also he wouldnt have > bad > > days. Youd never see Schumacher having a day bad as bad as Montoyas,even > in > > the late 90's when he wasnt in the best machinery an awful day seemed to > be > > 3rd. > > > > Micheals second "full" season was a WDC championship, albeit in nearlythe > > best machinery in the field, but williams was clearly faster with theless > > talented Damon Hill, which offers the conclusion that the Benetton wasno

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> > Williams. Even in a second year the signs were there. Signs I don't see > with > > Montoya, I do on occasion, like with Hakkinen the genius is there, just > can > > he use it all the time like someone called Michael. > > > > I await the next 2-3years before I feel I could make a final sumup of > > Montoya. > > > > Rakkionen on the other hand is proving himself greatly this year, just > > unluckly all those BMW enduced DNF's. > > > > David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:%Jw99.38673$[email hidden]... > > > > > > "David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > But youd really expect that at "national" level huh.... > > > > > > > > Like montoya, button, rakkionen, massa all out qualling more > experienced > > > > teamates in there first year, adding R Schu and N Heidfeld are no > second > > > > raters, isn't about 10-15laps to find the very limit at the level > > expected > > > > from an F1 driver, unless you pay to drive that is :) > > > > > > JPM wasn't even close to RS in last year in qualifying. RS

outqualified

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> > him > > > in 11 out of 17 races, usually by a half second or more. When JPM > > > outqualifed him, it was by a hair. > > > > > > Needed a better sim. > > > > > > This year it's 7-6 in favor of JPM, although RS outqualifies JPM by

more > > on > > > average, has a faster average qualifying time, and a faster averagerace

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> > lap > > > time. > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > > > > > >