New Pedal Design

For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for our own use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full units if there is any demand. Here area few pictures of what we have come up with in the prototype. Still in the testing/design stages but wanted to show what we have for those interested. Our main goals were simple and solid. Unit is made wit aircraft grade aluminium, bolts, bearings. http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000528.jpg http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000529.jpg http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000530.jpg http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000531.jpg http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000532.jpg http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000533.jpg http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000534.jpg http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000535.jpg http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000536.jpg http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000537.jpg www.corl.ca - Canadian Online Racing League

On August 24 2002, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote: > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for > our own use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full > units if there is any demand. Good luck to you, they look very strong. Take care to fit a stop on the brake so the pot linkage cant go over center once the squash ball has got a bit weaker. Will these be for game port only or are you planning for usb too? Cheers MikeT (MTPedals as was) -- If you want to email me then use this: MikeT at dsl dot pipex dot com

The brake pedal has a stop now on the case itself to prevent it going too far for pot. It is currently gameport connection and that is all we are working on right now. There are gameport to USB adapters and we will be testing it on one as well. The fibreglass case for example has not been finished yet is in a semi rough state. Right now it is still design phase but would like feedback on what people think. "MikeT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On August 24 2002, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for > > our own use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full > > units if there is any demand. > > Good luck to you, they look very strong. Take care to fit a stop on the > brake so the pot linkage cant go over center once the squash ball has > got a bit weaker. Will these be for game port only or are you planning > for usb too? > > Cheers > > MikeT (MTPedals as was) > > -- > If you want to email me then use this: > > MikeT at dsl dot pipex dot com > >

On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 15:36:16 -0300, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for our own >use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full units if there is >any demand. Here area few pictures of what we have come up with in the >prototype. Still in the testing/design stages but wanted to show what we >have for those interested. >Our main goals were simple and solid. Unit is made wit aircraft grade >aluminium, bolts, bearings.

Are most of the parts (like the pedal arm) you used off the shelf? Can you buy them at a Revy or Homedepot? This looks nice. How much are looking to sell them for? -- karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

No, most of the parts are aircraft grade and thus most local places won't carry it. The arms are 1/4" aluminium plate cut to shape, with aluminium angle iron, and aircraft bell crank bearings. No price set yet as we are still in design phase. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 15:36:16 -0300, "Schooner" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for ourown > >use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full units if thereis

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> >any demand. Here area few pictures of what we have come up with in the > >prototype. Still in the testing/design stages but wanted to show what we > >have for those interested. > >Our main goals were simple and solid. Unit is made wit aircraft grade > >aluminium, bolts, bearings. > > Are most of the parts (like the pedal arm) you used off the shelf? > Can you buy them at a Revy or Homedepot? This looks nice. How much > are looking to sell them for? > > -- > karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

Everything looks very nice, but just wondering why you would go with bungee cord instead of a quality spring? "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ukQ99.23416$[email hidden]... > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for ourown > use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full units if thereis

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> any demand. Here area few pictures of what we have come up with in the > prototype. Still in the testing/design stages but wanted to show what we > have for those interested. > Our main goals were simple and solid. Unit is made wit aircraft grade > aluminium, bolts, bearings. > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000528.jpg > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000529.jpg > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000530.jpg > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000531.jpg > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000532.jpg > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000533.jpg > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000534.jpg > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000535.jpg > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000536.jpg > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000537.jpg > > www.corl.ca - Canadian Online Racing League > > >

We have used bungee cord for years in other commercial uses without issue and decided to give it a try here as well. We are still in the design/testing phase so nothing is final but so far the bungee is working fine and we will be testing with a spring as well. Bungee cord allows you to create the exact size required and set any tension level. They do stretch slightly over time but never have total failure as a spring can have when it breaks. A number of people have asked why bungee instead of the spring and we were curious as to what issues/concerns people have with the bungee as perhaps we have overlooked a problem in using it, or is it more an issue that it is different? "Bob G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ITU99.22759$[email hidden]... > Everything looks very nice, but just wondering why you would go withbungee

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> cord instead of a quality spring? > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ukQ99.23416$[email hidden]... > > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for our > own > > use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full units if

there > is > > any demand. Here area few pictures of what we have come up with in the > > prototype. Still in the testing/design stages but wanted to show whatwe

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> > have for those interested. > > Our main goals were simple and solid. Unit is made wit aircraft grade > > aluminium, bolts, bearings. > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000528.jpg > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000529.jpg > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000530.jpg > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000531.jpg > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000532.jpg > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000533.jpg > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000534.jpg > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000535.jpg > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000536.jpg > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000537.jpg > > > > www.corl.ca - Canadian Online Racing League > > > > > > > >

"Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ukQ99.23416$[email hidden]... > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for ourown > use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full units if thereis > any demand. Here area few pictures of what we have come up with in the > prototype. I have used MSFF, Logi Momo and BRD Sim Pro and BRD Speed 7 pedals - and these look like they suffer the same issue the momo pedal do - the pedal itself pivots at the top of the arm to which it is attached - thus you can have a very disorientating sensation sometimes. You're not sure if you're actually pushing the pedal - or just tilting it. Maybe I'm miss interpreting the pictures. Apart from that - they look wicked :D Doug

Currently only the throttle is pivoting, the others are locked solid. Still deciding whether we want the throttle to pivot or not as well for the reasons you mention. The key I think is to have them pivot slightly so they give as you push to make the angle more comfortable latter in the travel but not so much that they pivot early and make it hard to know if the pedal is actually being moved. "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QkW99.943$J47.106858@stones... > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ukQ99.23416$[email hidden]... > > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for our > own > > use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full units ifthere

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> is > > any demand. Here area few pictures of what we have come up with in the > > prototype. > > I have used MSFF, Logi Momo and BRD Sim Pro and BRD Speed 7 pedals - and > these look like they suffer the same issue the momo pedal do - the pedal > itself pivots at the top of the arm to which it is attached - thus you can > have a very disorientating sensation sometimes. You're not sure if you're > actually pushing the pedal - or just tilting it. > > Maybe I'm miss interpreting the pictures. > > Apart from that - they look wicked :D > > Doug > >

Yes, it would be mainly the stretch issue I would be concerned about. Sounds like you're on top of it though. Keep up the nice work. It looks great. "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:p3V99.23887$[email hidden]... > We have used bungee cord for years in other commercial uses without issue > and decided to give it a try here as well. > We are still in the design/testing phase so nothing is final but so farthe > bungee is working fine and we will be testing with a spring as well. > Bungee cord allows you to create the exact size required and set anytension > level. They do stretch slightly over time but never have total failure asa > spring can have when it breaks. > A number of people have asked why bungee instead of the spring and we were > curious as to what issues/concerns people have with the bungee as perhapswe

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> have overlooked a problem in using it, or is it more an issue that it is > different? > > "Bob G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ITU99.22759$[email hidden]... > > Everything looks very nice, but just wondering why you would go with > bungee > > cord instead of a quality spring? > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:ukQ99.23416$[email hidden]... > > > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for

our > > own > > > use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full units if > there > > is > > > any demand. Here area few pictures of what we have come up with inthe

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> > > prototype. Still in the testing/design stages but wanted to show what > we > > > have for those interested. > > > Our main goals were simple and solid. Unit is made wit aircraft grade > > > aluminium, bolts, bearings. > > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000528.jpg > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000529.jpg > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000530.jpg > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000531.jpg > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000532.jpg > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000533.jpg > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000534.jpg > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000535.jpg > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000536.jpg > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000537.jpg > > > > > > www.corl.ca - Canadian Online Racing League > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Ok thanks for the reply on this, it help us a lot. Yes the stretch issue is definitely the main one when dealing with bungee but it really depends on the quality used. There is some really poor bungee out there that is no good but other makes stand up for years. Like I mentioned before we were rather concerned about the total failure possibilities with springs so this the reason we tried something different, but as with bungee if the springs are of top quality this shouldn't be an issue. "Bob G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nxY99.23339$[email hidden]...

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> Yes, it would be mainly the stretch issue I would be concerned about. > Sounds like you're on top of it though. Keep up the nice work. It looks > great. > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:p3V99.23887$[email hidden]... > > We have used bungee cord for years in other commercial uses without

issue

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> > and decided to give it a try here as well. > > We are still in the design/testing phase so nothing is final but so far > the > > bungee is working fine and we will be testing with a spring as well. > > Bungee cord allows you to create the exact size required and set any > tension > > level. They do stretch slightly over time but never have total failure

as > a > > spring can have when it breaks. > > A number of people have asked why bungee instead of the spring and wewere > > curious as to what issues/concerns people have with the bungee asperhaps

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> we > > have overlooked a problem in using it, or is it more an issue that it is > > different? > > > > "Bob G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:ITU99.22759$[email hidden]... > > > Everything looks very nice, but just wondering why you would go with > > bungee > > > cord instead of a quality spring? > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:ukQ99.23416$[email hidden]... > > > > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for > our > > > own > > > > use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full units if > > there > > > is > > > > any demand. Here area few pictures of what we have come up with in > the > > > > prototype. Still in the testing/design stages but wanted to show

what > > we > > > > have for those interested. > > > > Our main goals were simple and solid. Unit is made wit aircraftgrade

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> > > > aluminium, bolts, bearings. > > > > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000528.jpg > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000529.jpg > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000530.jpg > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000531.jpg > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000532.jpg > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000533.jpg > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000534.jpg > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000535.jpg > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000536.jpg > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000537.jpg > > > > > > > > www.corl.ca - Canadian Online Racing League > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I race in socks, and it looks like that heel plate would be very annoying and uncomfortable. It seems that every manufacturer that I have seen goes for realism over comfort in this area. Have you ever considered a soft base and smoother pedals for maximum comfort? JB

Those pedals look great. I like the design. Looks easy to maintain. Using bungies is a good ideal, and if people did'nt like the bungies, they could go out and buy some of those universal carb return springs, and adjust them for tension. Keep us posted on your progress. Will the pedals be hooked up to the usb, or game port? "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oG2a9.26940$[email hidden]... > Ok thanks for the reply on this, it help us a lot. Yes the stretch issueis > definitely the main one when dealing with bungee but it really depends on > the quality used. There is some really poor bungee out there that is no > good but other makes stand up for years. Like I mentioned before we were > rather concerned about the total failure possibilities with springs sothis

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> the reason we tried something different, but as with bungee if the springs > are of top quality this shouldn't be an issue. > > "Bob G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:nxY99.23339$[email hidden]... > > Yes, it would be mainly the stretch issue I would be concerned about. > > Sounds like you're on top of it though. Keep up the nice work. It

looks

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> > great. > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:p3V99.23887$[email hidden]... > > > We have used bungee cord for years in other commercial uses without > issue > > > and decided to give it a try here as well. > > > We are still in the design/testing phase so nothing is final but so

far > > the > > > bungee is working fine and we will be testing with a spring as well. > > > Bungee cord allows you to create the exact size required and set any > > tension > > > level. They do stretch slightly over time but never have totalfailure

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> as > > a > > > spring can have when it breaks. > > > A number of people have asked why bungee instead of the spring and we > were > > > curious as to what issues/concerns people have with the bungee as > perhaps > > we > > > have overlooked a problem in using it, or is it more an issue that it

is

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> > > different? > > > > > > "Bob G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:ITU99.22759$[email hidden]... > > > > Everything looks very nice, but just wondering why you would go with > > > bungee > > > > cord instead of a quality spring? > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:ukQ99.23416$[email hidden]... > > > > > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first

for > > our > > > > own > > > > > use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full unitsif > > > there > > > > is > > > > > any demand. Here area few pictures of what we have come up within

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> > the > > > > > prototype. Still in the testing/design stages but wanted to show > what > > > we > > > > > have for those interested. > > > > > Our main goals were simple and solid. Unit is made wit aircraft > grade > > > > > aluminium, bolts, bearings. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000528.jpg > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000529.jpg > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000530.jpg > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000531.jpg > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000532.jpg > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000533.jpg > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000534.jpg > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000535.jpg > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000536.jpg > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000537.jpg > > > > > > > > > > www.corl.ca - Canadian Online Racing League > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

It will be wired for gameport. Wiring for USB is not trivial and there are now gamerport to USB adapters so its easier to got gameport route to start with at least. "Graham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Those pedals look great. I like the design. Looks easy to maintain.Using > bungies is a good ideal, and if people did'nt like the bungies, they could > go out and buy some of those universal carb return springs, and adjustthem > for tension. Keep us posted on your progress. Will the pedals be hookedup > to the usb, or game port? > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:oG2a9.26940$[email hidden]... > > Ok thanks for the reply on this, it help us a lot. Yes the stretchissue > is > > definitely the main one when dealing with bungee but it really dependson > > the quality used. There is some really poor bungee out there that is no > > good but other makes stand up for years. Like I mentioned before wewere > > rather concerned about the total failure possibilities with springs so > this > > the reason we tried something different, but as with bungee if thesprings

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> > are of top quality this shouldn't be an issue. > > > > "Bob G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:nxY99.23339$[email hidden]... > > > Yes, it would be mainly the stretch issue I would be concerned about. > > > Sounds like you're on top of it though. Keep up the nice work. It > looks > > > great. > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:p3V99.23887$[email hidden]... > > > > We have used bungee cord for years in other commercial uses without > > issue > > > > and decided to give it a try here as well. > > > > We are still in the design/testing phase so nothing is final but so > far > > > the > > > > bungee is working fine and we will be testing with a spring as well. > > > > Bungee cord allows you to create the exact size required and set any > > > tension > > > > level. They do stretch slightly over time but never have total > failure > > as > > > a > > > > spring can have when it breaks. > > > > A number of people have asked why bungee instead of the spring and

we > > were > > > > curious as to what issues/concerns people have with the bungee as > > perhaps > > > we > > > > have overlooked a problem in using it, or is it more an issue thatit > is > > > > different? > > > > > > > > "Bob G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:ITU99.22759$[email hidden]... > > > > > Everything looks very nice, but just wondering why you would gowith

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> > > > bungee > > > > > cord instead of a quality spring? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:ukQ99.23416$[email hidden]... > > > > > > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first > for > > > our > > > > > own > > > > > > use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full units > if > > > > there > > > > > is > > > > > > any demand. Here area few pictures of what we have come up with > in > > > the > > > > > > prototype. Still in the testing/design stages but wanted to

show

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> > what > > > > we > > > > > > have for those interested. > > > > > > Our main goals were simple and solid. Unit is made wit aircraft > > grade > > > > > > aluminium, bolts, bearings. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000528.jpg > > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000529.jpg > > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000530.jpg > > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000531.jpg > > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000532.jpg > > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000533.jpg > > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000534.jpg > > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000535.jpg > > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000536.jpg > > > > > > http://www.schoonersolutions.com/corl/images/P1000537.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > www.corl.ca - Canadian Online Racing League > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I race in socks as well and the heal plate is not an issue that I have noticed bit I understand you point. We are looking for a more rubberized plate now for it. This model is just a prototype and can/will be undergoing some changes. We appreciate the feedback, good to get second opinions as it is easy to overlook areas that others may notice. "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:akb07r$dn4$[email hidden]... > I race in socks, and it looks like that heel plate would be very annoying > and uncomfortable. It seems that every manufacturer that I have seen goes > for realism over comfort in this area. Have you ever considered a softbase > and smoother pedals for maximum comfort? > > JB > >

"Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:p3V99.23887$[email hidden]... > SNIP > A number of people have asked why bungee instead of the spring and we were > curious as to what issues/concerns people have with the bungee as perhapswe > have overlooked a problem in using it, or is it more an issue that it is > different? > I gave up bungees when I gave up Thrustmaster controllers. An spring, adjustable for tension, would be much better. Overall a good solid design though. -- don ------------------------------------- BAPOM Alternative Program Covers for GPL http://www.trilon.com/bapom/

We will give the spring at try as well, shouldn't be any issue to use either in this design and that was part of the plan from day one, to not limit the unit to using any special springs and proprietary components. The bungee in the current system is easily adjusted for tension now but it seems most people prefer the look of a spring over the bungee for some reason. "don hodgdon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:akb5dn$tpv$[email hidden]... > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:p3V99.23887$[email hidden]... > > SNIP > > > A number of people have asked why bungee instead of the spring and wewere > > curious as to what issues/concerns people have with the bungee asperhaps

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> we > > have overlooked a problem in using it, or is it more an issue that it is > > different? > > > > I gave up bungees when I gave up Thrustmaster controllers. An spring, > adjustable for tension, would be much better. Overall a good solid design > though. > > -- > don > > ------------------------------------- > BAPOM > Alternative Program Covers for GPL > http://www.trilon.com/bapom/ > >

"Schooner" . The bungee in > the current system is easily adjusted for tension now but it seems most > people prefer the look of a spring over the bungee for some reason. > > "don hodgdon" that's where the marketing folks come in. If you TELL everyone bungee is better...than 'most' of them will beleive you. The technocrats however, will always go for a solution that 'seems' more hi-tech. dave henrie

Your exactly right. From our past experience in other uses and testing to date on the pedals the bungee seems as good as or better than a spring - no complete failure issues, unlimited settings of tension, easy installation, easy adjustability, however the vast majority of the comments we have received to date has been centered on the use of bungee over springs. This was some what of a surprise considering the past history of spring breakage in units such as the Act-Labs performance pedals. We are trying to design something solid and simple but also that people will like, and if springs are better and more accepted then we will try them as well. I would be curious to hear of any past experience with bungee in a similar use where it has been an issue however, just trying to gather as much information as possible so that we come up with the best solution, and not one with known problems, or overlooking a solution that works but is just not considered "proper". "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WDaa9.266658$[email hidden]...

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> > "Schooner" > > . The bungee in > > the current system is easily adjusted for tension now but it seems most > > people prefer the look of a spring over the bungee for some reason. > > > > "don hodgdon" > that's where the marketing folks come in. If you TELL everyone bungee

is > better...than 'most' of them will beleive you. The technocrats however, > will always go for a solution that 'seems' more hi-tech. > dave henrie > >

Please don't drop bungies because springs are "more accepted" by the masses. Think of the old sales saying: "Don't sell people what they want, sell them what they need." Go with bungies if they are a better overall solution (performance, price, customizability, durability, and accessibility). I (and probably most people) will gladly accept them if they perform as promised. BTW, the pedals look great. I'm certainly in the market to upgrade the mediocre MOMO pedals. -- Joe Marques "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a3ba9.27084$[email hidden]... > Your exactly right. From our past experience in other uses and testing to > date on the pedals the bungee seems as good as or better than a spring - no > complete failure issues, unlimited settings of tension, easy installation, > easy adjustability, however the vast majority of the comments we have > received to date has been centered on the use of bungee over springs. This > was some what of a surprise considering the past history of spring breakage > in units such as the Act-Labs performance pedals. We are trying to design > something solid and simple but also that people will like, and if springs > are better and more accepted then we will try them as well. > I would be curious to hear of any past experience with bungee in a similar > use where it has been an issue however, just trying to gather as much > information as possible so that we come up with the best solution, and not > one with known problems, or overlooking a solution that works but is just > not considered "proper". > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:WDaa9.266658$[email hidden]... > > > > "Schooner" > > > > . The bungee in > > > the current system is easily adjusted for tension now but it seems most > > > people prefer the look of a spring over the bungee for some reason. > > > > > > "don hodgdon" > > that's where the marketing folks come in. If you TELL everyone bungee > is > > better...than 'most' of them will beleive you. The technocrats however, > > will always go for a solution that 'seems' more hi-tech. > > dave henrie > > > > > >

What the hell is a bungie? You think I had the dev team Bungie on my mind instead of bungee cords? :0) -- Joe Marques "Joe Marques" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:L2ca9.206754$[email hidden]... > Please don't drop bungies because springs are "more accepted" by the masses. > Think of the old sales saying: "Don't sell people what they want, sell them > what they need." Go with bungies if they are a better overall solution > (performance, price, customizability, durability, and accessibility). I > (and probably most people) will gladly accept them if they perform as > promised. > > BTW, the pedals look great. I'm certainly in the market to upgrade the > mediocre MOMO pedals. > > -- > Joe Marques

"Schooner" wrote...

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> <snip> > I would be curious to hear of any past experience with bungee > in a similar use where it has been an issue however, just trying > to gather as much information as possible so that we come up > with the best solution, and not one with known problems, or > overlooking a solution that works but is just not considered > "proper".

Springs are good when used in "tension", i.e. stretching the spring, but not in "torsion", i.e. using its resistance to being wound tighter. Although there is an adjustability issue with both approaches. In your application/setup I think bungees are the way to go. Put it this way, before I had the MOMO wheel, the pedals of which are adequate (regardless of what anyone says), I used an LWFF wired to TM NasPro pedals converted to bungee/squash ball. I've improved some of my times set with this combination since, but those are more due to better technique/line/incorporating LFB rather than any innate qualities of the, spring return, MOMO pedals. Jan. =---

I think any device that will give the required resistance will work fine. The biggest issue with a lot of springs as you say is the mounting, most of which seem to use the compression technique. My experience with these is that when the spring starts to fail your pedals don't return to the top. and since they don't usually contain a lot of over loading there is little room for failure before they drop off less than full return. The hopes with the bungee is that the loading will always be enough for full return even after extended use. There will be loss of tension but this can easily be fix by tightening or replacing the bungee. The tension method also allows for greater adjustability in that more tension can easily be added by adding addition springs or tightening the spring. In the compression technique you basically need to replace the spring with a higher loaded spring which may be harder to find in the proper sizing. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8tfa9.88032$[email hidden]...

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> "Schooner" wrote... > > <snip> > > I would be curious to hear of any past experience with bungee > > in a similar use where it has been an issue however, just trying > > to gather as much information as possible so that we come up > > with the best solution, and not one with known problems, or > > overlooking a solution that works but is just not considered > > "proper". > > > Springs are good when used in "tension", i.e. stretching the spring, but

not

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> in "torsion", i.e. using its resistance to being wound tighter. Although > there is an adjustability issue with both approaches. > > In your application/setup I think bungees are the way to go. Put it this > way, before I had the MOMO wheel, the pedals of which are adequate > (regardless of what anyone says), I used an LWFF wired to TM NasPro pedals > converted to bungee/squash ball. I've improved some of my times set with > this combination since, but those are more due to better > technique/line/incorporating LFB rather than any innate qualities of the, > spring return, MOMO pedals. > > Jan. > =--- > >

Spring or bungee does'nt matter to me. Aslong as it works, and durable, thats what counts. "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bDfa9.27223$[email hidden]... > I think any device that will give the required resistance will work fine. > The biggest issue with a lot of springs as you say is the mounting, mostof > which seem to use the compression technique. My experience with these is > that when the spring starts to fail your pedals don't return to the top. > and since they don't usually contain a lot of over loading there is little > room for failure before they drop off less than full return. > The hopes with the bungee is that the loading will always be enough forfull > return even after extended use. There will be loss of tension but thiscan > easily be fix by tightening or replacing the bungee. > The tension method also allows for greater adjustability in that more > tension can easily be added by adding addition springs or tightening the > spring. In the compression technique you basically need to replace the > spring with a higher loaded spring which may be harder to find in theproper

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> sizing. > > "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8tfa9.88032$[email hidden]... > > "Schooner" wrote... > > > <snip> > > > I would be curious to hear of any past experience with bungee > > > in a similar use where it has been an issue however, just trying > > > to gather as much information as possible so that we come up > > > with the best solution, and not one with known problems, or > > > overlooking a solution that works but is just not considered > > > "proper". > > > > > > Springs are good when used in "tension", i.e. stretching the spring, but > not > > in "torsion", i.e. using its resistance to being wound tighter. Although > > there is an adjustability issue with both approaches. > > > > In your application/setup I think bungees are the way to go. Put it this > > way, before I had the MOMO wheel, the pedals of which are adequate > > (regardless of what anyone says), I used an LWFF wired to TM NasPro

pedals > > converted to bungee/squash ball. I've improved some of my times set with > > this combination since, but those are more due to better > > technique/line/incorporating LFB rather than any innate qualities ofthe,

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> > spring return, MOMO pedals. > > > > Jan. > > =--- > > > > > >

IMHO bungies are BAD. "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QMQ99.23492$[email hidden]... > The brake pedal has a stop now on the case itself to prevent it going too > far for pot. > It is currently gameport connection and that is all we are working onright > now. There are gameport to USB adapters and we will be testing it on oneas

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> well. The fibreglass case for example has not been finished yet is in a > semi rough state. > Right now it is still design phase but would like feedback on what people > think. > > "MikeT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On August 24 2002, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for > > > our own use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full > > > units if there is any demand. > > > > Good luck to you, they look very strong. Take care to fit a stop on the > > brake so the pot linkage cant go over center once the squash ball has > > got a bit weaker. Will these be for game port only or are you planning > > for usb too? > > > > Cheers > > > > MikeT (MTPedals as was) > > > > -- > > If you want to email me then use this: > > > > MikeT at dsl dot pipex dot com > > > > > >

Just curious as to why? Have you had issues with them in the past? Not defending them jus trying to get a clear picture of the issues people have had with them. "Wayne Bradley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:akdn5g$jgt$[email hidden]...

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> IMHO bungies are BAD. > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:QMQ99.23492$[email hidden]... > > The brake pedal has a stop now on the case itself to prevent it going

too > > far for pot. > > It is currently gameport connection and that is all we are working on > right > > now. There are gameport to USB adapters and we will be testing it onone > as > > well. The fibreglass case for example has not been finished yet is in a > > semi rough state. > > Right now it is still design phase but would like feedback on whatpeople

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> > think. > > > > "MikeT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On August 24 2002, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for > > > > our own use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full > > > > units if there is any demand. > > > > > > Good luck to you, they look very strong. Take care to fit a stop on

the

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> > > brake so the pot linkage cant go over center once the squash ball has > > > got a bit weaker. Will these be for game port only or are you planning > > > for usb too? > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > MikeT (MTPedals as was) > > > > > > -- > > > If you want to email me then use this: > > > > > > MikeT at dsl dot pipex dot com > > > > > > > > > > > >

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:18:32 -0300, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Just curious as to why? >Have you had issues with them in the past? Not defending them jus trying to >get a clear picture of the issues people have had with them. > Many people have had problems with bungees. They were used for tension in the earlier Thrustmaster wheels and weren't very long-lasting. You have great looking pedals, but I would get rid of the bungee if I were you .. :) >"Wayne Bradley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:akdn5g$jgt$[email hidden]... >> IMHO bungies are BAD. >> >>

The issue with bungee comes down to the quality. We have seen very good and very poor quality bungee. Good quality will last for years, even in use under water while poor quality will stretch and give up tension easily. I think it's the same issue with springs, there are good quality ones and bad quality and it depends what you get. We will keep looking into this however and thanks again for the feedback. "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:18:32 -0300, "Schooner" <[email hidden]>wrote: > > >Just curious as to why? > >Have you had issues with them in the past? Not defending them jus tryingto

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> >get a clear picture of the issues people have had with them. > > > > Many people have had problems with bungees. > They were used for tension in the earlier Thrustmaster > wheels and weren't very long-lasting. > > You have great looking pedals, but I would get rid of the > bungee if I were you .. :) > > >"Wayne Bradley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:akdn5g$jgt$[email hidden]... > >> IMHO bungies are BAD. > >> > >> > >

Well, In your application it may be just fine. They were used in early Thrustmaster wheels as the steering wheels centering mechanism and that proved to be unreliable. In that setup there was only one bungee for each direction and would stretch quite a bit, thus the breakage. In your situation they are doubled up and most likely not stretching that far. So like I said, in your application it may be just fine. I would think about having some sort of grommet where the bungee loops the hooks to provide a larger circumference for the bungee to wrap around thus creating less pinch and more surface area for the bungee to ride on. Almost like a small pulley around each hook with a channel for the bungee to ride in. Make sense? "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Onta9.27487$[email hidden]... > Just curious as to why? > Have you had issues with them in the past? Not defending them jus tryingto

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> get a clear picture of the issues people have had with them. > > "Wayne Bradley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:akdn5g$jgt$[email hidden]... > > IMHO bungies are BAD. > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:QMQ99.23492$[email hidden]... > > > The brake pedal has a stop now on the case itself to prevent it going > too > > > far for pot. > > > It is currently gameport connection and that is all we are working on > > right > > > now. There are gameport to USB adapters and we will be testing it on > one > > as > > > well. The fibreglass case for example has not been finished yet is in

a

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> > > semi rough state. > > > Right now it is still design phase but would like feedback on what > people > > > think. > > > > > > "MikeT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > On August 24 2002, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first

for > > > > > our own use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full > > > > > units if there is any demand. > > > > > > > > Good luck to you, they look very strong. Take care to fit a stop on > the > > > > brake so the pot linkage cant go over center once the squash ballhas > > > > got a bit weaker. Will these be for game port only or are youplanning

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> > > > for usb too? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > MikeT (MTPedals as was) > > > > > > > > -- > > > > If you want to email me then use this: > > > > > > > > MikeT at dsl dot pipex dot com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"rrevved" wrote...

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> > <snip> > > Many people have had problems with bungees. > They were used for tension in the earlier Thrustmaster > wheels and weren't very long-lasting. > > You have great looking pedals, but I would get rid > of the bungee if I were you .. :)

Apples and oranges. You can't transpose the problems those bungees suffered on this application. It only explains why bungees got a bad wrap, not why they shouldn't be used in these pedals. The use of bungees in early TM wheels was steering return... that's a whole different ballgame. Not did the twisting motion stretch them unequally across the lenght used (i.e. a bit of the bungee was stretched a lot, with the rest of it hardly taking any strain), they were also subjected to friction and pre-stretched a lot instead of doubled up in order to obtain the required resistance. I think the steering bungee in the TM wheels was used on the very edge of elastic deformation (i.e. stretching that allows return to previous lenght) and therefore didn't last very long. In the pedals it's a completely different story as the load acts completely along the elastic cords that make up the bungee, rather than them being twisted and they're doubled up instead of pre-stretched (well, just a little to keep the pedal firmly againstit's front stop) to obtain resistance. These factors will extend their lifespan considerably. In my experience with my bungee converted NasPro pedals, the same bungee cord that would last about two weeks in the wheel lasted over two years on the pedals. Don't let them talk you out of using bungees Schooner. IMO they're the right material for the job... just double or triple 'm up if you need more resistance instead of pre-stretching them hard. Jan. =---

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:37:10 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> You have great looking pedals, but I would get rid >> of the bungee if I were you .. :) > >Apples and oranges. You can't transpose the problems those bungees suffered >on this application. It only explains why bungees got a bad wrap, Bungees with a 'bad wrap'? :)

I believe you are right, all the feedback to date on the bungees seems to point to issues in the TM wheel which like you say is a totally different setup. Just to give a bit more background on the use of bungee, my father is a commercial fisherman and has been using bungee on lobster traps for over 15 years now to hold the doors on the traps closed. These bungees are exposed to salt water, sun, and rough usage and good quality bungee can stand up for years in this use with no breakages and little issues with stretching. There will always be some stretching over time but I think this can be addressed with retensioning when needed, which would be rather infrequent event. In my person view I would rather have a slight loss on tension over a long period of time than the possible total failure of springs during a critical race. Again the current pedal design will work with both setup with no changes required and that is the reason for the design, to leave such choices open to the individual. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qzua9.89317$[email hidden]...

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> "rrevved" wrote... > > > <snip> > > > > Many people have had problems with bungees. > > They were used for tension in the earlier Thrustmaster > > wheels and weren't very long-lasting. > > > > You have great looking pedals, but I would get rid > > of the bungee if I were you .. :) > > Apples and oranges. You can't transpose the problems those bungees

suffered > on this application. It only explains why bungees got a bad wrap, not why > they shouldn't be used in these pedals. > > The use of bungees in early TM wheels was steering return... that's awhole

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> different ballgame. Not did the twisting motion stretch them unequally > across the lenght used (i.e. a bit of the bungee was stretched a lot, with > the rest of it hardly taking any strain), they were also subjected to > friction and pre-stretched a lot instead of doubled up in order to obtain > the required resistance. I think the steering bungee in the TM wheels was > used on the very edge of elastic deformation (i.e. stretching that allows > return to previous lenght) and therefore didn't last very long. > > In the pedals it's a completely different story as the load acts

completely > along the elastic cords that make up the bungee, rather than them being > twisted and they're doubled up instead of pre-stretched (well, just alittle > to keep the pedal firmly againstit's front stop) to obtain resistance.These > factors will extend their lifespan considerably. In my experience with my > bungee converted NasPro pedals, the same bungee cord that would last about > two weeks in the wheel lasted over two years on the pedals. > > Don't let them talk you out of using bungees Schooner. IMO they're theright

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> material for the job... just double or triple 'm up if you need more > resistance instead of pre-stretching them hard. > > Jan. > =--- > >

Schooner wrote: > > I believe you are right, all the feedback to date on the bungees seems to > point to issues in the TM wheel which like you say is a totally different > setup. I agree. What next, the springs in the Actlab Precision pedals snapped so springs are bad? Gerry

Schooner wrote: > > I believe you are right, all the feedback to date on the bungees seems to > point to issues in the TM wheel which like you say is a totally different > setup. I agree. What next, the springs in the Actlab Precision pedals snapped so springs are bad? Gerry

"rrevved" wrote... > <snip> > Bungees with a 'bad wrap'? Ok, ironic typo... I asumme you know what I meant. Jan. =---

"Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<ukQ99.23416$[email hidden]>...

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> For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for our own > use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full units if there is > any demand. Here area few pictures of what we have come up with in the > prototype. Still in the testing/design stages but wanted to show what we > have for those interested. > Our main goals were simple and solid. Unit is made wit aircraft grade > aluminium, bolts, bearings.

Looks like a good start. If nothing else, they look ultra tough and that's a vital step. Here's my suggestions: Allow user to disable pivot on accelerator. Don't like the idea of a pivot at all (from MOMO experience). Allow range of movement to be adjusted. Generally, aren't brake pedals a little closer than the accelerator? Have I explained this correctly? Going on your design, looking at a profile view, I would expect the brake to be a tilted a bit futher back than the accelerator. This aids heel and toeing which I manage without too much of a problem with my TM F1/NASCAR Pro pedals. Heel and toeing with a pivot on the gas could also be an issue. Floor mounted design pedals should allow the user's foot to slide on the pedal pad. I tried aftermarket pedal pads with grips on my rig so found this out at my cost. Top mounted pedals, OK, as you don't wanna have your foot slip off underneath, but floor hinged... The pedal pads you've got there don't look too bad - I wear plastic soled slippers when simming - but for sock wearers they look like they may be a bit uncomfortable... Send me a set to test for you! Alternatively, Don't charge me too much when I want to buy them!! Keep up the good work, Mark Reading, UK

Thanks for the comments. The brake and clutch pedals pads are currently locked in place but have an adjustable angle. The gas is currently pivoting but as you mention we are considering locking it as well. The pivot has some benefits put also has the drawbacks you noted. The pads used will probably not be the final type used. We have looked at a variety of different after market pads and are trying to find something that fits well, looks good. and most of all is functional for the sim racer. Just because something looks "racey" doesn't mean it will work well under sim racing conditions. The amount of travel will be adjustable on the pedals and that is what we are currently working on. Right now they have a bit too much travel, especially in the brake. FYI - I am a "sock" driver as well so we will be trying to make these as comfortable as possible. Right now these are just a prototype and we are working from here to perfect things. The initial issues we were looking at was getting a solid material for the pedals, making sure the pot mechanism worked, getting smooth pedal movement and hinging with the bellcrank bearings, simple way to mount the pads, and the basic design down for the fibreglass shell. From here we will begin more detail tweaking of the system. If things work out and we end up with a decent working set of pedals then we will look into possibly reselling them if anyone is interested but right now it is a R&D project. "Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<ukQ99.23416$[email hidden]>... > > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for ourown > > use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full units ifthere is > > any demand. Here area few pictures of what we have come up with in the > > prototype. Still in the testing/design stages but wanted to show whatwe

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> > have for those interested. > > Our main goals were simple and solid. Unit is made wit aircraft grade > > aluminium, bolts, bearings. > > Looks like a good start. If nothing else, they look ultra tough and > that's a vital step. > > Here's my suggestions: > > Allow user to disable pivot on accelerator. Don't like the idea of a > pivot at all (from MOMO experience). > > Allow range of movement to be adjusted. Generally, aren't brake > pedals a little closer than the accelerator? Have I explained this > correctly? Going on your design, looking at a profile view, I would > expect the brake to be a tilted a bit futher back than the > accelerator. This aids heel and toeing which I manage without too > much of a problem with my TM F1/NASCAR Pro pedals. Heel and toeing > with a pivot on the gas could also be an issue. > > Floor mounted design pedals should allow the user's foot to slide on > the pedal pad. I tried aftermarket pedal pads with grips on my rig so > found this out at my cost. Top mounted pedals, OK, as you don't wanna > have your foot slip off underneath, but floor hinged... The pedal > pads you've got there don't look too bad - I wear plastic soled > slippers when simming - but for sock wearers they look like they may > be a bit uncomfortable... > > Send me a set to test for you! Alternatively, Don't charge me too > much when I want to buy them!! > > Keep up the good work, > > Mark > Reading, UK

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Schooner wrote: > > > > I believe you are right, all the feedback to date on the bungees seemsto > > point to issues in the TM wheel which like you say is a totallydifferent > > setup. > > I agree. What next, the springs in the Actlab Precision pedals snapped > so springs are bad? > > Gerry Evidently they are on the Act Labs if they truely break often. What is your point?

I think the point was that any component can fail in a given setup based on a number of conditions. Bungee has a bad rap due to the T2 wheel it seems. The comment on the Act Labs springs I think was meant to show that just because springs fail on that unit doesn't mean all springs are bad. Typically people base opinions on one bad experience, what I am looking to find out is if there is a general trend where a certain type of material/component is failing or not working properly or if it is a case of problems under one specific application. The Act Labs issues seems to stem from a poor/flawed material used in the spring itself and not a case where the concept of using a spring is the problem. "Wayne Bradley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:akftiu$oa6$[email hidden]...

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> "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Schooner wrote: > > > > > > I believe you are right, all the feedback to date on the bungees seems > to > > > point to issues in the TM wheel which like you say is a totally > different > > > setup. > > > > I agree. What next, the springs in the Actlab Precision pedals snapped > > so springs are bad? > > > > Gerry > > Evidently they are on the Act Labs if they truely break often. What is

your > point? > > >

I Agree, IMHO the bungee is not the way. I think that standard, good quality pull springs, of the Automotive type, attached to an adjustable anchor point, to allow adjustment of tension, would be a better long term proposition.This would allow people to adjust the peddle tension to their individual taste. I converted my old Thrustmaster pedals as described and I have never broken a spring . Gone so far for 5 years .The original springs used to last 3 months. I just used a good anchor point at both ends that allows movement against the spring hooks. The springs will fail if movement is restricted and the spring hooks bend at every pedal depression. The other point is that if the pull springs ever do break, (as you say in the middle of a race) it would take me 2 min to change them. The Old design would take about 1 hour to change, as they were part of the pivot bolt assembly. My 10 year old son could have designed them better. The springs that I used are available at any corner hardware shop. Good Luck with your project Darf > The Act Labs issues seems to stem from a poor/flawed material used in the > spring itself and not a case where the concept of using a spring is the > problem.

Schooner wrote:

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> <snip> > In my person view I would rather have a slight loss on tension over > a long period of time than the possible total failure of springs during a > critical race. > Again the current pedal design will work with both setup with no changes > required and that is the reason for the design, to leave such choices open > to the individual.

I have no problems with bungees, but the cheap springs from the local hardware store have lasted in my pedals for about 2 years now. But if you do go with springs and easy way to avoid the sudden failure is to use 2 per pedal, that way if one fails you still have some return force. Plus 2 should give more flexibility in adjusting the tension using springs with different rates. Ken PS If you want a hand converting these for connecting to a usb ForceRS let me know (I'm nearby). I'll even test them for you :-).

2 mins to change a spring is a few laps if you happen to be in the midst of a points race. But I understand your point. As I mentioned before the quality of the bungee is the key. You can buy cheap bungee just as you can buy cheap springs, you can also buy MIL Spec bungee. "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d6b9218$0$29908$[email hidden]... > I Agree, IMHO the bungee is not the way. > I think that standard, good quality pull springs, of the Automotive type, > attached to an adjustable anchor point, to allow adjustment of tension, > would be a better long term proposition.This would allow people to adjust > the peddle tension to their individual taste. > I converted my old Thrustmaster pedals as described and I have neverbroken > a spring . Gone so far for 5 years .The original springs used to last 3 > months. I just used a good anchor point at both ends that allows movement > against the spring hooks. The springs will fail if movement is restricted > and the spring hooks bend at every pedal depression. The other point isthat > if the pull springs ever do break, (as you say in the middle of a race) it > would take me 2 min to change them. The Old design would take about 1 hour > to change, as they were part of the pivot bolt assembly. My 10 year oldson

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> could have designed them better. The springs that I used are available at > any corner hardware shop. > Good Luck with your project > > Darf > > > > The Act Labs issues seems to stem from a poor/flawed material used in

the > > spring itself and not a case where the concept of using a spring is the > > problem. > > >

Looks like you are determined to go with the bungee, despite all of the spring votes. You haven't got a rubber fetish have you? :-) Darf "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:g09b9.28344$[email hidden]... > 2 mins to change a spring is a few laps if you happen to be in the midstof > a points race. > But I understand your point. As I mentioned before the quality of the > bungee is the key. You can buy cheap bungee just as you can buy cheap > springs, you can also buy MIL Spec bungee.

Not determined to go either way, just looking for feedback. To date there is no real argument against the use of high quality bungee so we will probably still go with it for now. "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d6d6335$0$29913$[email hidden]...

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> Looks like you are determined to go with the bungee, despite all of the > spring votes. > You haven't got a rubber fetish have you? > > :-) > > Darf > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:g09b9.28344$[email hidden]... > > 2 mins to change a spring is a few laps if you happen to be in the midst > of > > a points race. > > But I understand your point. As I mentioned before the quality of the > > bungee is the key. You can buy cheap bungee just as you can buy cheap > > springs, you can also buy MIL Spec bungee. > > >

But springs are more popular. Shouldn't you just use whatever is more popular here? ;0) -- Joe Marques "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0Ldb9.28442$[email hidden]... > Not determined to go either way, just looking for feedback. To date there > is no real argument against the use of high quality bungee so we will > probably still go with it for now. > > "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3d6d6335$0$29913$[email hidden]... > > Looks like you are determined to go with the bungee, despite all of the > > spring votes. > > You haven't got a rubber fetish have you? > > > > :-) > > > > Darf > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:g09b9.28344$[email hidden]... > > > 2 mins to change a spring is a few laps if you happen to be in the midst > > of > > > a points race. > > > But I understand your point. As I mentioned before the quality of the > > > bungee is the key. You can buy cheap bungee just as you can buy cheap > > > springs, you can also buy MIL Spec bungee. > > > > > > > >

Hehe, yes perhaps :) However I'd rather try and find some innovation or try something new if it works as well or possibly better. "Joe Marques" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Whhb9.261022$[email hidden]...

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> But springs are more popular. Shouldn't you just use whatever is more > popular here? ;0) > > -- > Joe Marques > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0Ldb9.28442$[email hidden]... > > Not determined to go either way, just looking for feedback. To date

there > > is no real argument against the use of high quality bungee so we will > > probably still go with it for now. > > > > "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:3d6d6335$0$29913$[email hidden]... > > > Looks like you are determined to go with the bungee, despite all ofthe

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> > > spring votes. > > > You haven't got a rubber fetish have you? > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > Darf > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:g09b9.28344$[email hidden]... > > > > 2 mins to change a spring is a few laps if you happen to be in the > midst > > > of > > > > a points race. > > > > But I understand your point. As I mentioned before the quality of

the > > > > bungee is the key. You can buy cheap bungee just as you can buycheap

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> > > > springs, you can also buy MIL Spec bungee. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Well if a pro bungee vote is needed, count me in. I even had a T2 for many years with daily usage and only one failure. IMO bungee provide a smoother feel than a spring. I think they handle the alignment changes better than springs. The only thing with bungee is to keep them from rubbing along something that can cut them. The bushing idea above was a good idea. What is the amount of pedal travel with the current design? I think the ACT Labs pro pedals claim a two inch travel. I know my MOMO pedals are around 1 inch travel and its no where near enough. I'm not even sure that 2 inches is, but I know it would be better than what I have. I had thought about the ACT Labs pedals, but their breakage issues has scared me away. Keep me informed on your progress Schooner I'm looking forward to them. MadDAWG

Currently have over 2 inches of travel and it seems like a lot but perhaps it's because I have being using the Momos to date. Was considering reducing it but now you have me thinking :) The amount of travel will be adjustable that way the driver can set it to what they like. I don't think the bungee rubbing is a big issue. Right now its on a smooth steel S hook so nothing to really wear it on and it doesn't touch any other component in the case. We have used bungee in commercial fishing where it sees a lot of wear on a regular basis and failure is not common. I think the T2 wheel was just a poor application of bungee, they seemed to use an odd setup and push and pulled side ways and not length ways. "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well if a pro bungee vote is needed, count me in. I even had a T2 for many > years with daily usage and only one failure. IMO bungee provide a smoother > feel than a spring. I think they handle the alignment changes better than > springs. The only thing with bungee is to keep them from rubbing along > something that can cut them. The bushing idea above was a good idea. > > What is the amount of pedal travel with the current design? I think the

ACT > Labs pro pedals claim a two inch travel. I know my MOMO pedals are around1

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> inch travel and its no where near enough. I'm not even sure that 2 inches > is, but I know it would be better than what I have. > > I had thought about the ACT Labs pedals, but their breakage issues has > scared me away. Keep me informed on your progress Schooner I'm looking > forward to them. > > MadDAWG > >

I'd say that 2" should be the min. As far as the bungee goes you don't have to sell me. The T2 did use an odd setup. There was a dog leg hanging off the steering shaft. The bungee was stretched across the bottom of the shaft. So the dog leg actually pushed the bungee down. IMO the problem with this was two fold. The first problem was that it was not really using the bungee in the right way. The second and most important is the dog leg that pushed on the bungee had a molding seam run across it that created a sharp edge that cut into the bungee. MadDAWG

You mustn't have raced hard enough :-) Darf "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well if a pro bungee vote is needed, count me in. I even had a T2 for many > years with daily usage and only one failure.

It got tons of use. After the first one broke I sanded the dog leg smooth so it would not bite in to the bungee cord. I went thru a couple more offline seasons. Man do I miss the save race feature. :( MadDAWG

After the first bungee broke I quickly got used to driving without it. I ended up getting quicker lap times that way. I even wired up microswitches that were attached to the rim of the Wheel. for gear changes. Made the cars much easier to drive. The Old Thrustmaster has been relegated to the kids now but it still is without its bungee :-) BTW in Australia we call bungees ocky straps (short for octopus straps) Darf "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > It got tons of use. After the first one broke I sanded the dog leg smoothso > it would not bite in to the bungee cord. I went thru a couple more offline > seasons. Man do I miss the save race feature. :( > > MadDAWG > >

Just a quick follow up on a issue that has been asked a few times on the pedal design - The pedal arms are all bearing mounted using aircraft quality bearings. These are ball bearing type, not bushings. In the picture the clutch pedal is just mounted solid but the gas and break are on bearings. These bearings are very thin with 0 play in them. They are military spec and used for aircraft control mechanisms. I will try and post a close up picture to give a better idea of how they look and work. Thank for all the comments to date on this. "MikeT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On August 24 2002, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > For anyone interested we have been making some new pedals first for > > our own use but possibly for resale either as plans, kits, or full > > units if there is any demand. > > Good luck to you, they look very strong. Take care to fit a stop on the > brake so the pot linkage cant go over center once the squash ball has > got a bit weaker. Will these be for game port only or are you planning > for usb too? > > Cheers > > MikeT (MTPedals as was) > > -- > If you want to email me then use this: > > MikeT at dsl dot pipex dot com > >

Wayne Bradley wrote:

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> > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Schooner wrote: > > > > > > I believe you are right, all the feedback to date on the bungees seems > to > > > point to issues in the TM wheel which like you say is a totally > different > > > setup. > > > > I agree. What next, the springs in the Actlab Precision pedals snapped > > so springs are bad? > > > > Gerry > > Evidently they are on the Act Labs if they truely break often. What is your > point?

My point is obvious to anyone with half a brain! Do us all a favour and DON'T get a job in the nuclear industry!!

Bungees are good! :) I bet my bungees are easier to change and springs (if they ever need it) :) http://www.scprc.com/images/TMFF Wayne Bradley wrote:

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> IMHO bungies are BAD. > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:QMQ99.23492$[email hidden]... >

-- Jason Monds theCLAPPER in Kali http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N4, GPL, Fun Run Sims) http://www.racersdomain.com - Racers go here. (Remove 'no spork' when replying)

On Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:57:30 GMT, Jason Monds <[email hidden]> wrote: >Bungees are good! :) I bet my bungees are easier to change and springs >(if they ever need it) :) Check out Driving Italia for this pedal mod http://tinyurl.com/19fc -- karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

Neat Mod, what type of shocks/springs are those and where could I find them? Jeff <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:57:30 GMT, Jason Monds > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Bungees are good! :) I bet my bungees are easier to change and springs > >(if they ever need it) :) > > Check out Driving Italia for this pedal mod http://tinyurl.com/19fc > > -- > karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

On Mon, 02 Sep 2002 20:01:35 GMT, "Houndog" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Neat Mod, what type of shocks/springs are those and where could I find them? > >Jeff They're shocks for radio controllered cars, I believe. So any hobby shop that carries r/c stuff should have them.

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><[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:57:30 GMT, Jason Monds >> <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >Bungees are good! :) I bet my bungees are easier to change and springs >> >(if they ever need it) :) >> >> Check out Driving Italia for this pedal mod http://tinyurl.com/19fc

-- karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

geeze jason,next youll be showing picks of your TV dinner tray wheel mounting system<G> neil "Jason Monds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Bungees are good! :) I bet my bungees are easier to change and springs > (if they ever need it) :) > > http://www.scprc.com/images/TMFF > > > Wayne Bradley wrote: > > > IMHO bungies are BAD. > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:QMQ99.23492$[email hidden]... > > > > > -- > Jason Monds theCLAPPER in Kali > http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N4, GPL, Fun Run Sims) > http://www.racersdomain.com - Racers go here. > (Remove 'no spork' when replying) >

Never in my life have I ever seen such a massacre of the English Language. What a crack up :-) Darf <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:57:30 GMT, Jason Monds > <[email hidden]> wrote: > Check out Driving Italia for this pedal mod http://tinyurl.com/19fc

LOL. No Neil, they're only of the peddles :) I'll save the TV tray drivin' for another thread ;) The car shocks look pretty neat. Neil Canning wrote:

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> geeze jason,next youll be showing picks of your TV dinner tray wheel > mounting system<G> > > neil > > "Jason Monds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >>Bungees are good! :) I bet my bungees are easier to change and springs >>(if they ever need it) :) >> >>http://www.scprc.com/images/TMFF >> >>

-- Jason Monds theCLAPPER in Kali http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N4, GPL, Fun Run Sims) http://www.racersdomain.com - Race hosting. (Remove 'no spork' when replying)

On Tue, 3 Sep 2002 09:44:03 +1000, "Darf" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Never in my life have I ever seen such a massacre of the English Language. >What a crack up :-) > >Darf Yeah, it's hillarious. It seems translate.google.com isn't very good at going from Italian to English.

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> ><[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:57:30 GMT, Jason Monds >> <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> Check out Driving Italia for this pedal mod http://tinyurl.com/19fc > >

-- karkrazy AT softhome DOT net