Act Labs Force RS or Logitech Momo?

My cheapy Logitech Wingman GP died yesterday so I am in the market for a new force feedback wheel. I think I have decided on either the Logitech Momo or the Act Labs Force RS. Any opinions one way or the other? Thanks, Todd -- ________________________ Todd Walker http://twalker.d2g.com ________________________

Frankly, I'd get the USB MSFFW. (Do NOT get the GamePort version). For the cost ($99) I think it's the best consumer grade FF wheel value there is out there. They are damned-near bullet proof. Very few of us with them have had any problems whatsoever. It uses optical encoders, so there is no Windows Calibration and I've personally never heard of anyone having a pot go bad. I suspect it's happened to _someone_, though. Mine is 2 years old and shows zero signs of wear. It works as good as the day it came out of the box. The MSFFW pedals are the best there is in this class of wheel. Angled properly, they stay put, and comfortable for long runs. The Momo Pedals are, um, terrible. The profiling software has needed updating for years, but it's functional and gets the job done. JMHO. -Larry "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> My cheapy Logitech Wingman GP died yesterday so I am in the market for a > new force feedback wheel. I think I have decided on either the Logitech > Momo or the Act Labs Force RS. Any opinions one way or the other? > > Thanks, > Todd > > -- > ________________________ > Todd Walker > http://twalker.d2g.com > ________________________

In article <l4Z99.9086$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Frankly, I'd get the USB MSFFW. (Do NOT get the GamePort version). > > For the cost ($99) I think it's the best consumer grade FF wheel value there > is out there. > Thanks a bunch for the advice Larry. I haven't really looked into the FF wheels a lot but my main concern is reliability. I wasn't sure how the MS wheels stacked up in this department but I have to admit -- I have 3 MS mice, 2 MS keyboards, a Sidewinder gamepad, and a Sidewinder FF joystick and I have never had the first minute's trouble with any of them. I appreciate the response. -- ________________________ Todd Walker http://twalker.d2g.com ________________________

The durability of the MSFFW is definitely a strong point. -Larry "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <l4Z99.9086$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > Frankly, I'd get the USB MSFFW. (Do NOT get the GamePort version). > > > > For the cost ($99) I think it's the best consumer grade FF wheel valuethere

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> > is out there. > > > > Thanks a bunch for the advice Larry. I haven't really looked into the FF > wheels a lot but my main concern is reliability. I wasn't sure how the > MS wheels stacked up in this department but I have to admit -- I have 3 > MS mice, 2 MS keyboards, a Sidewinder gamepad, and a Sidewinder FF > joystick and I have never had the first minute's trouble with any of > them. > > I appreciate the response. > > -- > ________________________ > Todd Walker > http://twalker.d2g.com > ________________________

Get the momo ...my act labs just died and i was very happy to replace it with the great momo. Its a lot nicer than the act labs. dan "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> My cheapy Logitech Wingman GP died yesterday so I am in the market for a > new force feedback wheel. I think I have decided on either the Logitech > Momo or the Act Labs Force RS. Any opinions one way or the other? > > Thanks, > Todd > > -- > ________________________ > Todd Walker > http://twalker.d2g.com > ________________________

I agree with Dan. I really liked my ActLabs FF wheel, but when it died I too replaced it with a Momo. And I like the Momo even better. Todd "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aka9oi$1g4c5g$[email hidden]...

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> Get the momo ...my act labs just died and i was very happy to replace it > with the great momo. Its a lot nicer than the act labs. > dan > "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > My cheapy Logitech Wingman GP died yesterday so I am in the market for a > > new force feedback wheel. I think I have decided on either the Logitech > > Momo or the Act Labs Force RS. Any opinions one way or the other? > > > > Thanks, > > Todd > > > > -- > > ________________________ > > Todd Walker > > http://twalker.d2g.com > > ________________________ > >

Todd Walker wrote: > > My cheapy Logitech Wingman GP died yesterday so I am in the market for a > new force feedback wheel. I think I have decided on either the Logitech > Momo or the Act Labs Force RS. Any opinions one way or the other? Get the Momo. Gerry

Do what Dooglas did and get the Momo,dump the pedals in a skip and replace them with the BRD Speed 7 pedals. Leaving you a very happy camper...... Andy

Make SURE you try the pedals first. They are pretty bad. The wheel is great. The pedals are terrible. That's why my Momo is on the shelf, and my 2 year old MSFFW is back on the desk. -Larry "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aka9oi$1g4c5g$[email hidden]...

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> Get the momo ...my act labs just died and i was very happy to replace it > with the great momo. Its a lot nicer than the act labs. > dan > "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > My cheapy Logitech Wingman GP died yesterday so I am in the market for a > > new force feedback wheel. I think I have decided on either the Logitech > > Momo or the Act Labs Force RS. Any opinions one way or the other? > > > > Thanks, > > Todd > > > > -- > > ________________________ > > Todd Walker > > http://twalker.d2g.com > > ________________________ > >

In article <kTfa9.11571$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Make SURE you try the pedals first. They are pretty bad. > > The wheel is great. The pedals are terrible. > > That's why my Momo is on the shelf, and my 2 year old MSFFW is back on the > desk. > > -Larry

I ordered my MSFFW this morning. Should be here Wednesday. Thanks for the advice Larry :-) -- ________________________ Todd Walker http://twalker.d2g.com ________________________

On Sun, 25 Aug 2002 03:57:32 GMT, Todd Walker <[email hidden]> wrote: >My cheapy Logitech Wingman GP died yesterday so I am in the market for a >new force feedback wheel. I think I have decided on either the Logitech >Momo or the Act Labs Force RS. Any opinions one way or the other? > >Thanks, >Todd Get the MS wheel. The Momo isn't that much better than the GP wheel, and you will have to deal with the wheel/pedal spiking that will happen due to the pots getting dirty/worn. I threw my Momo out after having to deal with that and the pedal problem as well. (pedal's on the GP wheel are actually better...except for the plastic that breaks too easily on the gp)

Just a word of caution. Since the MSFF uses optics instead of pots for the steering, it's resolution is not as high as the other wheels. This means that the steering precision won't be as good and that effects your lap times. There's a reason why BRD, TSW and ECCI, expensive wheels, use high quality pots instead of optics. Optics start out having a higher resolution, but in a gaming device they suffer from jitters. By the time the jitters are calmed, the resolution reported to the computer is much lower than a potentiometer. You may not feel the difference in resolution while racing, but it certainly will show up in your lap times; especially for faster sim racers. -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <kTfa9.11571$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > Make SURE you try the pedals first. They are pretty bad. > > > > The wheel is great. The pedals are terrible. > > > > That's why my Momo is on the shelf, and my 2 year old MSFFW is back on the > > desk. > > > > -Larry > > I ordered my MSFFW this morning. Should be here Wednesday. Thanks for > the advice Larry :-) > > -- > ________________________ > Todd Walker > http://twalker.d2g.com > ________________________

In article <akdbnm$1h8j8n$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Just a word of caution. Since the MSFF uses optics instead of pots for the > steering, it's resolution is not as high as the other wheels. This means > that the steering precision won't be as good and that effects your lap > times. There's a reason why BRD, TSW and ECCI, expensive wheels, use high > quality pots instead of optics. Optics start out having a higher resolution, > but in a gaming device they suffer from jitters. By the time the jitters are > calmed, the resolution reported to the computer is much lower than a > potentiometer. You may not feel the difference in resolution while racing, > but it certainly will show up in your lap times; especially for faster sim > racers.

Thanks for the advice. Luckily, I am not one of the faster sim racers ;-) -- ________________________ Todd Walker http://twalker.d2g.com ________________________

Anytime. I can't help but think you'll be very happy with it. When you install the software under 2K or XP, the installer may complain that it's for Win98 only, and isn't for 2K/XP. Ignore that and install anyway. Microsoft gave the software WHQL certification for XP in this condition, which is truly bizarre but comforting :) -Larry "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <kTfa9.11571$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > Make SURE you try the pedals first. They are pretty bad. > > > > The wheel is great. The pedals are terrible. > > > > That's why my Momo is on the shelf, and my 2 year old MSFFW is back on

the

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> > desk. > > > > -Larry > > I ordered my MSFFW this morning. Should be here Wednesday. Thanks for > the advice Larry :-) > > -- > ________________________ > Todd Walker > http://twalker.d2g.com > ________________________

It has NEVER affected my lap times. It has 512 steps resolution for steering, and 64 steps resolution for throttle/brake. I've never found this to be a problem. IMHO, this is one of those 'red-herring' things. -Larry "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:akdbnm$1h8j8n$[email hidden]... > Just a word of caution. Since the MSFF uses optics instead of pots for the > steering, it's resolution is not as high as the other wheels. This means > that the steering precision won't be as good and that effects your lap > times. There's a reason why BRD, TSW and ECCI, expensive wheels, use high > quality pots instead of optics. Optics start out having a higherresolution, > but in a gaming device they suffer from jitters. By the time the jittersare

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> calmed, the resolution reported to the computer is much lower than a > potentiometer. You may not feel the difference in resolution while racing, > but it certainly will show up in your lap times; especially for faster sim > racers. > > > -- > Slot > > Tweaks & Reviews > www.slottweak.com > > "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <kTfa9.11571$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > > says... > > > Make SURE you try the pedals first. They are pretty bad. > > > > > > The wheel is great. The pedals are terrible. > > > > > > That's why my Momo is on the shelf, and my 2 year old MSFFW is back on > the > > > desk. > > > > > > -Larry > > > > I ordered my MSFFW this morning. Should be here Wednesday. Thanks for > > the advice Larry :-) > > > > -- > > ________________________ > > Todd Walker > > http://twalker.d2g.com > > ________________________ > >

Larry wrote:

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> > It has NEVER affected my lap times. > > It has 512 steps resolution for steering, and 64 steps resolution for > throttle/brake. I've never found this to be a problem. > > IMHO, this is one of those 'red-herring' things.

Agreed. You only have to look at who's saying it: TSW, ECCI and BRD. All three say stupid things about FF too. Gerry

That's 512 extrapolated in software. Totally different. Any driver can do that, and some games report it differently. I have several wheels. I like the LWFF because it's smooth, but I hardly use it in serious racing because it's not so hot on resolution, either. The new logi wheel (not the momo) feels cheap to me, but it's steering precision is actually better. Still, I prefer using the LWFF. Most of the newer designed wheels will have better resolution. I'm not saying the MSFF is a bad wheel. It's dependable and the pedals are decent. It may be just the ticket for someone. I run each new game with several wheels for a couple weeks. My lap times are consistent with each wheel, but those times vary from wheel to wheel. The MSFF is an older design. It has it's good points, but nobody has rushed out to copy it. IMHO, I'd recommend it for someone who wants trouble free arcade racing, or to a kid. But, I'm sincerely glad that you're happy with yours. Personally, I don't have one favorite wheel. The FF issue with the TSW, ECCI and BRD is a totally different story. Those companies could easily afford, and engineer, the optics if they wanted to (it's cheaper). "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Jrwa9.14391$[email hidden]...

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> It has NEVER affected my lap times. > > It has 512 steps resolution for steering, and 64 steps resolution for > throttle/brake. I've never found this to be a problem. > > IMHO, this is one of those 'red-herring' things. > > -Larry > > "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:akdbnm$1h8j8n$[email hidden]... > > Just a word of caution. Since the MSFF uses optics instead of pots for

the > > steering, it's resolution is not as high as the other wheels. This means > > that the steering precision won't be as good and that effects your lap > > times. There's a reason why BRD, TSW and ECCI, expensive wheels, usehigh > > quality pots instead of optics. Optics start out having a higher > resolution, > > but in a gaming device they suffer from jitters. By the time the jitters > are > > calmed, the resolution reported to the computer is much lower than a > > potentiometer. You may not feel the difference in resolution whileracing, > > but it certainly will show up in your lap times; especially for fastersim

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> > racers. > > > > > > -- > > Slot > > > > Tweaks & Reviews > > www.slottweak.com > > > > "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <kTfa9.11571$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > > > says... > > > > Make SURE you try the pedals first. They are pretty bad. > > > > > > > > The wheel is great. The pedals are terrible. > > > > > > > > That's why my Momo is on the shelf, and my 2 year old MSFFW is back

on

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> > the > > > > desk. > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > I ordered my MSFFW this morning. Should be here Wednesday. Thanks for > > > the advice Larry :-) > > > > > > -- > > > ________________________ > > > Todd Walker > > > http://twalker.d2g.com > > > ________________________ > > > > > >

Only the steering on the MS wheel is optical, the pedals use regular pots. Since I have never used any wheel other than the sidewinder, I have no way of knowing how it compares to other wheels. I do know that I have never been able to get a totally satisfactory setup with GPL that eliminates the "notchiness" and "jerkiness" from the FF which can certainly mess you up sometimes. Beware the rich history of broken pedal springs with the sidewinder, though not clear yet whether these are any better with the newer USB wheels. And the rubber covering on the new wheels will eventually tear and detach from the wheel... mine is taped up with duct tape now after both sides developed large rips in them. I am really tempted to buy the act labs setup, but keep hearing all these stories about broken parts with them.... On the plus side for the sidewinder, the ergonomics of the wheel are excellent as are the number and layout of the buttons. -Garth

Rich history with broken spring pedals? Never heard of it, never experienced it. Maybe I shouldn't say that, though :) Two + years and no failures whatsoever. -Larry "Garth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MgNa9.53788$[email hidden]...

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> Only the steering on the MS wheel is optical, the pedals use regular pots. > Since I have never used any wheel other than the sidewinder, I have no way > of knowing how it compares to other wheels. I do know that I have never > been able to get a totally satisfactory setup with GPL that eliminates the > "notchiness" and "jerkiness" from the FF which can certainly mess you up > sometimes. Beware the rich history of broken pedal springs with the > sidewinder, though not clear yet whether these are any better with the

newer > USB wheels. And the rubber covering on the new wheels will eventuallytear > and detach from the wheel... mine is taped up with duct tape now afterboth

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> sides developed large rips in them. > > I am really tempted to buy the act labs setup, but keep hearing all these > stories about broken parts with them.... > > On the plus side for the sidewinder, the ergonomics of the wheel are > excellent as are the number and layout of the buttons. > > -Garth > >

I don't care if it's extrapolated in software or not, though I'd like to see your reference for this. It works FINE. There are NO issues with this. It is a RED HERRING. And many agree that the pedals are the best you can get with a consumer grade wheel. They are even better than the so-called Act-Labs Pro Pedals. -Larry "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:akf5fo$1i3efl$[email hidden]... > That's 512 extrapolated in software. Totally different. Any driver can do > that, and some games report it differently. I have several wheels. I like > the LWFF because it's smooth, but I hardly use it in serious racingbecause > it's not so hot on resolution, either. The new logi wheel (not the momo) > feels cheap to me, but it's steering precision is actually better. Still,I

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> prefer using the LWFF. Most of the newer designed wheels will have better > resolution. > I'm not saying the MSFF is a bad wheel. It's dependable and the pedals are > decent. It may be just the ticket for someone. I run each new game with > several wheels for a couple weeks. My lap times are consistent with each > wheel, but those times vary from wheel to wheel. The MSFF is an older > design. It has it's good points, but nobody has rushed out to copy it.

IMHO, > I'd recommend it for someone who wants trouble free arcade racing, or to a > kid. But, I'm sincerely glad that you're happy with yours. Personally, I > don't have one favorite wheel. > > The FF issue with the TSW, ECCI and BRD is a totally different story.Those

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> companies could easily afford, and engineer, the optics if they wanted to > (it's cheaper). > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Jrwa9.14391$[email hidden]... > > It has NEVER affected my lap times. > > > > It has 512 steps resolution for steering, and 64 steps resolution for > > throttle/brake. I've never found this to be a problem. > > > > IMHO, this is one of those 'red-herring' things. > > > > -Larry > > > > "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:akdbnm$1h8j8n$[email hidden]... > > > Just a word of caution. Since the MSFF uses optics instead of pots for > the > > > steering, it's resolution is not as high as the other wheels. This

means > > > that the steering precision won't be as good and that effects your lap > > > times. There's a reason why BRD, TSW and ECCI, expensive wheels, use > high > > > quality pots instead of optics. Optics start out having a higher > > resolution, > > > but in a gaming device they suffer from jitters. By the time thejitters

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> > are > > > calmed, the resolution reported to the computer is much lower than a > > > potentiometer. You may not feel the difference in resolution while > racing, > > > but it certainly will show up in your lap times; especially for faster > sim > > > racers. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Slot > > > > > > Tweaks & Reviews > > > www.slottweak.com > > > > > > "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > In article <kTfa9.11571$[email hidden]>,

[email hidden] > > > > says... > > > > > Make SURE you try the pedals first. They are pretty bad. > > > > > > > > > > The wheel is great. The pedals are terrible. > > > > > > > > > > That's why my Momo is on the shelf, and my 2 year old MSFFW isback

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> on > > > the > > > > > desk. > > > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > I ordered my MSFFW this morning. Should be here Wednesday. Thanks

for

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> > > > the advice Larry :-) > > > > > > > > -- > > > > ________________________ > > > > Todd Walker > > > > http://twalker.d2g.com > > > > ________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > >

Zero wear on the wheel as well. You shouldn't drive with your Teeth. It will last longer :) -Larry "Garth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MgNa9.53788$[email hidden]...

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> Only the steering on the MS wheel is optical, the pedals use regular pots. > Since I have never used any wheel other than the sidewinder, I have no way > of knowing how it compares to other wheels. I do know that I have never > been able to get a totally satisfactory setup with GPL that eliminates the > "notchiness" and "jerkiness" from the FF which can certainly mess you up > sometimes. Beware the rich history of broken pedal springs with the > sidewinder, though not clear yet whether these are any better with the

newer > USB wheels. And the rubber covering on the new wheels will eventuallytear > and detach from the wheel... mine is taped up with duct tape now afterboth

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> sides developed large rips in them. > > I am really tempted to buy the act labs setup, but keep hearing all these > stories about broken parts with them.... > > On the plus side for the sidewinder, the ergonomics of the wheel are > excellent as are the number and layout of the buttons. > > -Garth > >

Larry wrote: > > It has 512 steps resolution for steering, and 64 steps resolution for > > throttle/brake. I've never found this to be a problem. > IMHO, this is one of those 'red-herring' things. Agreed.