Jaques Villeneuve is a greedy idiot!

The guy is a former CART champion who threatened to com back to North America if the FIA took steps to slow down the cars. Now he has one of the slowest cars on the grid and has been offered a chance to race in CART "one last time". As a Canadian I would love to see him in CART again (where he should have stayed imho). But now here he is only worrying about his wallet, and its not like he's poor. Gerry Forsythe even appaerently offered him $50 million to run in his Reynards, and Craig Pollack rejected it right away (can Jacques speak for himself?). Its not like his F1 contract is null and void if he leaves for a year. BAR said they'd just defer it for one year, so the money is still there. Screw Monaco Jacques. It's time to move back to Quebec and learn what it's like to be an ordinary person again.

ordinary? He should have gone to F1, as racing bunch of ermmm, well, best not say what I really feel :) over the pond would have proved nothing of Jacques to the remainder of the world not attached to the Northern share of the American continent.... Brad Larocque <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> The guy is a former CART champion who threatened to com back to North > America if the FIA took steps to slow down the cars. Now he has one of > the slowest cars on the grid and has been offered a chance to race in > CART "one last time". As a Canadian I would love to see him in CART > again (where he should have stayed imho). But now here he is only > worrying about his wallet, and its not like he's poor. Gerry Forsythe > even appaerently offered him $50 million to run in his Reynards, and > Craig Pollack rejected it right away (can Jacques speak for himself?). > Its not like his F1 contract is null and void if he leaves for a year. > BAR said they'd just defer it for one year, so the money is still there. > Screw Monaco Jacques. It's time to move back to Quebec and learn > what it's like to be an ordinary person again. >

On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:49:33 GMT, Brad Larocque <[email hidden]> wrote: > The guy is a former CART champion who threatened to com back to North > America if the FIA took steps to slow down the cars. Now he has one of > the slowest cars on the grid and has been offered a chance to race in > CART "one last time". Well, keep in mind that the contract he was offered also included 2 more years at BAR. Maybe he just doesn't want to re-sign for those 2 years in advance ? I know I wouldn't. Richard. -- Richard Bellavance COGNICASE inc. Analyste-programmeur principal H�bergement, s�curit� et r�seaux T.: 514-732-8000 #4153 20, Place du Commerce F.: 514-732-8021 Verdun, Qc, H3E 1Z6, CANADA

But what is he proving now? He hasn't won a race since his championship year. He's been trying to develop the BAR chassis with little result for a fourth year team. Even the Stewart team saw more progress before selling to Ford/Jaguar. BAR even admits it would be good for him to go somewhere else for a year so they can put the money they spend on his contract into development. David Powell

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> ordinary? > > He should have gone to F1, as racing bunch of ermmm, well, best not say what > I really feel :) over the pond would have proved nothing of Jacques to the > remainder of the world not attached to the Northern share of the American > continent.... > > > > > Brad Larocque <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >>The guy is a former CART champion who threatened to com back to North >>America if the FIA took steps to slow down the cars. Now he has one of >>the slowest cars on the grid and has been offered a chance to race in >>CART "one last time". As a Canadian I would love to see him in CART >>again (where he should have stayed imho). But now here he is only >>worrying about his wallet, and its not like he's poor. Gerry Forsythe >>even appaerently offered him $50 million to run in his Reynards, and >>Craig Pollack rejected it right away (can Jacques speak for himself?). >>Its not like his F1 contract is null and void if he leaves for a year. >>BAR said they'd just defer it for one year, so the money is still there. >> Screw Monaco Jacques. It's time to move back to Quebec and learn >>what it's like to be an ordinary person again. >> >> > >

nothing atm hes a washup, he should retire, watching the last GP's qually session said all it needed to me about his ability to setup a car and he overall focus on F1 and making the most of his weekend..... but that wasnt the case in 97.98.99 period, now tell me hes there for than his 20mill a year pay cheque? Brad Larocque <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> But what is he proving now? He hasn't won a race since his championship > year. He's been trying to develop the BAR chassis with little result for > a fourth year team. Even the Stewart team saw more progress before > selling to Ford/Jaguar. BAR even admits it would be good for him to go > somewhere else for a year so they can put the money they spend on his > contract into development. > > David Powell > > > ordinary? > > > > He should have gone to F1, as racing bunch of ermmm, well, best not say

what > > I really feel :) over the pond would have proved nothing of Jacques tothe > > remainder of the world not attached to the Northern share of theAmerican

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> > continent.... > > > > > > > > > > Brad Larocque <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > >>The guy is a former CART champion who threatened to com back to North > >>America if the FIA took steps to slow down the cars. Now he has one of > >>the slowest cars on the grid and has been offered a chance to race in > >>CART "one last time". As a Canadian I would love to see him in CART > >>again (where he should have stayed imho). But now here he is only > >>worrying about his wallet, and its not like he's poor. Gerry Forsythe > >>even appaerently offered him $50 million to run in his Reynards, and > >>Craig Pollack rejected it right away (can Jacques speak for himself?). > >>Its not like his F1 contract is null and void if he leaves for a year. > >>BAR said they'd just defer it for one year, so the money is still there. > >> Screw Monaco Jacques. It's time to move back to Quebec and learn > >>what it's like to be an ordinary person again. > >> > >> > > > > >

p.s didnt know your name was David Powell.....<G> Brad Larocque <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> But what is he proving now? He hasn't won a race since his championship > year. He's been trying to develop the BAR chassis with little result for > a fourth year team. Even the Stewart team saw more progress before > selling to Ford/Jaguar. BAR even admits it would be good for him to go > somewhere else for a year so they can put the money they spend on his > contract into development. > > David Powell > > > ordinary? > > > > He should have gone to F1, as racing bunch of ermmm, well, best not say

what > > I really feel :) over the pond would have proved nothing of Jacques tothe > > remainder of the world not attached to the Northern share of theAmerican

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> > continent.... > > > > > > > > > > Brad Larocque <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > >>The guy is a former CART champion who threatened to com back to North > >>America if the FIA took steps to slow down the cars. Now he has one of > >>the slowest cars on the grid and has been offered a chance to race in > >>CART "one last time". As a Canadian I would love to see him in CART > >>again (where he should have stayed imho). But now here he is only > >>worrying about his wallet, and its not like he's poor. Gerry Forsythe > >>even appaerently offered him $50 million to run in his Reynards, and > >>Craig Pollack rejected it right away (can Jacques speak for himself?). > >>Its not like his F1 contract is null and void if he leaves for a year. > >>BAR said they'd just defer it for one year, so the money is still there. > >> Screw Monaco Jacques. It's time to move back to Quebec and learn > >>what it's like to be an ordinary person again. > >> > >> > > > > >

Maybe JV enjoys road courses, massive braking forces, nimble handling cars, or racing against some of the best talent in the world (no matter how unbalanced the cars are) or some combination of those. Maybe going to CART to him is like giving up F1 to go race in the IRL, and many people would say this is true. Would the situation be the same if an IRL team were offering him that money? What about Nascar, TransAm, or ALMS? Sure it would be great to be on the fastest team in F1. Then again, maybe BAR will be one of the fastest teams in years to come. Many teams come and go from the top ranks. Perhaps it *is* all about money for him. At least he isn't going on strike to keep his paycheck. And while I am on the subject of Baseball. Should a baseball player being paid lots of money on a losing team take an offer to join a winning team for less money? What if that winning team was in a Japanese baseball league? There are many ways that you can look at this situation. I say let him make his own decisions and earn his big bucks. JB

Brad Larocque wrote: > Gerry Forsythe even apparently offered him $50 million to run in his > Reynards, and Craig Pollack rejected it right away (can Jacques speak > for himself?). He's greedy because he turned down a $50 million contract? I need to go find my dictionary. Apparently I've been misusing the term 'greedy' for the past 35 years.

>"Brad Larocque" <[email hidden]> wrote > Now he has one of the slowest cars on the grid and has been offered achance to race in > CART "one last time". Sorry if you take the step backwards, you'll never get the step forward. Especially in F1, with it's prestige and the glamour of it (think sponsorship, think image, think $). The WORSE wheel in Formula One is better then the best wheel of anything else in the world. Stop as a "fan" to be greedy yourself wanting him in a different series because you think he's wasting his time with BAR. He knows quite more then any of us what he wants in life, especially in terms of what he wants for his motorsport career. ;) Oh, I also really don't think CART is the place to go at the moment. It's probably the WORSE place to go at this moment in motorsports. There is nothing safe there. ;( > Gerry Forsythe > even appaerently offered him $50 million to run in his Reynards, and > Craig Pollack rejected it right away (can Jacques speak for himself?). 78$ millions for 3 years, which is already LESS then what he makes. Another reason to say "no", obliously. Jacques was never a "worker's racer". His father was, he is not. He is... different (in a good and bad way, you could easily say). -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

I'll score you the one about being a greedy fan, wanting to see him in a different series. As for the comment from "Internet User" above yours, the $50 million contract was rejected because it wasn't enough! So to me that is greedy. I think what irritates me the most is that I would have loved to see Villeneuve return to CART for years now, and that he himself threatened to do just that if the FIA slowed F1 cars. Villeneuve has always been a driver who disliked all the technological crap that are put in F1 cars. Hell I remember reading once a couple years ago he took and old '60's era F1 car for a spin (I forget which track) and even wore an open faced helmet because to him anything else would be blasphemous. Granted CART cars have traction control, and I don't know what other gadgets they have, but they are nowhere near as advanced as F1 cars. As for CART not being the place to be at the moment, thats just like small market NHL (or any other team sport) franchises. How can they be any good if the s0-called stars won't go there and give them someone to build a team (or racing series for that matter) around. So much for racing not being like all the other sports I guess. ymenard wrote:

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>>"Brad Larocque" <[email hidden]> wrote >>Now he has one of the slowest cars on the grid and has been offered a >> > chance to race in > >>CART "one last time". >> > > Sorry if you take the step backwards, you'll never get the step forward. > Especially in F1, with it's prestige and the glamour of it (think > sponsorship, think image, think $). The WORSE wheel in Formula One is > better then the best wheel of anything else in the world. > > Stop as a "fan" to be greedy yourself wanting him in a different series > because you think he's wasting his time with BAR. He knows quite more then > any of us what he wants in life, especially in terms of what he wants for > his motorsport career. ;) > > Oh, I also really don't think CART is the place to go at the moment. It's > probably the WORSE place to go at this moment in motorsports. There is > nothing safe there. ;( > > > > >>Gerry Forsythe >>even appaerently offered him $50 million to run in his Reynards, and >>Craig Pollack rejected it right away (can Jacques speak for himself?). >> > > 78$ millions for 3 years, which is already LESS then what he makes. Another > reason to say "no", obliously. Jacques was never a "worker's racer". His > father was, he is not. He is... different (in a good and bad way, you could > easily say). > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > >

francois... we've never been on opposite sides but i must respond to your 'worst in F1....." comment. please dont exagerate. your argument as such would include alex yoong. do you mean you consider him better than ??? christiano de matta? or gil de ferran? helio castro neves? i didnt think so. but thats ok, it was in the heat of the moment, right? and as for Jaques...... i think he WANTS to be a baseball player Jesse~ bo On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:55:02 -0400, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Sorry if you take the step backwards, you'll never get the step forward. >Especially in F1, with it's prestige and the glamour of it (think >sponsorship, think image, think $). The WORSE wheel in Formula One is >better then the best wheel of anything else in the world. > >-- >-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> >-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ >-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez >Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

"bb" wrote...

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> francois... > we've never been on opposite sides but i must respond > to your 'worst in F1....." comment. please dont exagerate. > your argument as such would include alex yoong. > do you mean you consider him better than ??? christiano de > matta? or gil de ferran? helio castro neves? > > i didnt think so. but thats ok, it was in the heat of the > moment, right? and as for Jaques...... i think he WANTS to > be a baseball player Jesse~

He's talking about the quality of the team and the car and the prestige of the series, not the drivers. According to Frank's argument it's better for Young to be nr.2 at Minardi than nr. 1 with Chip Ganassi. The best place for Young is, of course, a golf buggy, but that's beside the point. ;-) Jan. =---

Slightly OT. But the fact that Villeneuve has done nothing with BAR shows the difference between a good driver and great ones like Schumacher, Prost, Senna, et al. When Schumacher joined Ferrari they were just also rans living off their history (Just as Prost did all those years ago). These great drivers were able to turn the team into champsionship contenders and in Schumachers case champions. (Look what happened to Beneton after Schumacher left, Senna left Mclaren, etc). Villeneuve is a good driver making more money than he should. In anycase why go back to the US series where they've never heard of safety? "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4Hmb9.93751$[email hidden]...

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> "bb" wrote... > > francois... > > we've never been on opposite sides but i must respond > > to your 'worst in F1....." comment. please dont exagerate. > > your argument as such would include alex yoong. > > do you mean you consider him better than ??? christiano de > > matta? or gil de ferran? helio castro neves? > > > > i didnt think so. but thats ok, it was in the heat of the > > moment, right? and as for Jaques...... i think he WANTS to > > be a baseball player Jesse~ > > He's talking about the quality of the team and the car and the prestige of > the series, not the drivers. According to Frank's argument it's better for > Young to be nr.2 at Minardi than nr. 1 with Chip Ganassi. > > The best place for Young is, of course, a golf buggy, but that's beside

the > point. ;-) > > Jan. > =--- > >

>"Brad Larocque" <[email hidden]> wrote... > I'll score you the one about being a greedy fan, wanting to see him in a > different series. Yeah well I'm one of those also. I feel his talent wasted, but it's his decision and in long-term I can see. We all would want him to 1) perform and 2) be in a good team. But there's only what, 4-6 seats in F1 (hence, in the world) like that? ;) > As for the comment from "Internet User" above yours, > the $50 million contract was rejected because it wasn't enough! So to me > that is greedy. That's the false thing. I just saw Jacques in a live interview. He said he was never approached, 'cause it he would have had, he would actually have thought about the offer as it's something that rarely happen. That's good to know. ;) The interview was excellent, as always with Tortora (an old friend of his father Gilles). > Villeneuve has always been a > driver who disliked all the technological crap that are put in F1 cars. He did a nice comment (paraphrasing) "I watched the CART race in Montreal and I saw almost no passing. I see no difference now between CART and F1. So why go down a step?". He was especially saying that such offer would interest him "if" and only "if" there was an clause that would absolutely give him an F1 wheel, that would guarantee him a wheel the next year in F1. > As for CART not being the place to be at the moment, thats just like > small market NHL (or any other team sport) franchises. How can they be > any good if the s0-called stars won't go there and give them someone to > build a team (or racing series for that matter) around. So much for > racing not being like all the other sports I guess. Jacques also talked about this, but also affirmed that other people say the same about F1 these days, that it's not auto-sufficient anymore. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"bb" <[email hidden]> wrote > we've never been on opposite sides but i must respond to your 'worst > in F1....." comment. please dont exagerate. your argument as such > would include alex yoong. > do you mean you consider him better than ??? christiano de matta? or > gil de ferran? helio castro neves? Read again ;) I didn't say better or worse drivers, I was talking about being there, you know, being behind the wheel of a Formula One. I should have said the "worst seat in F1 is still better then the best CART seat", especially going into the 2003 season and all the conflicts of IRL/CART still going on. >and as for Jaques...... i think he WANTS to be a baseball player LOL? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"BFG" <[email hidden]> wrote > Slightly OT. But the fact that Villeneuve has done nothing with BAR shows > the difference between a good driver and great ones like Schumacher,Prost, > Senna, et al. When Schumacher joined Ferrari they were just also rans > living off their history (Just as Prost did all those years ago). Please, you're still talking about the Scuderia Ferrari here. It's not like Michael hopped into a very low-budget team having difficulties. He went into a large-budget team (in fact, even back then it was the largest) with the best engineer and manager of that time to put the team back on track. I'm not taking anything out of that success, but it's far different then a completely new team, with inexperimented staff and so. You know, Jacques got the pole in his first race and should have won it in F1 no? :) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

ok i can accept 'seat' do you know that the driver that finishes last in the indy 500, has a larger purse than the richest GP race? :D ancient discussions... without definitive answer- JV and baseball is a joke on players here making absurd $ one player has a 250 million dollar contract for 10 years service. the average salary is 2.1 Million, and for many that spend most of the time on the reserve bench- On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:30:06 -0400, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>>"bb" <[email hidden]> wrote >> we've never been on opposite sides but i must respond to your 'worst >> in F1....." comment. please dont exagerate. your argument as such >> would include alex yoong. >> do you mean you consider him better than ??? christiano de matta? or >> gil de ferran? helio castro neves? > >Read again ;) I didn't say better or worse drivers, I was talking about >being there, you know, being behind the wheel of a Formula One. I should >have said the "worst seat in F1 is still better then the best CART seat", >especially going into the 2003 season and all the conflicts of IRL/CART >still going on. > > >>and as for Jaques...... i think he WANTS to be a baseball player > >LOL? > > > >-- >-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> >-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ >-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez >Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

yes ok.. i can accept 'seat'.... the ONE thing i prefer about CART over any other series, is often overlooked. CART actually has a very varied system to determine the champion. in nascar (and IRL).. primarily ovals... in F1... road circuits CART... road circuits, temp street circuits, short ovals, speedways the only thing they lack is a heritage, steeped in tradition. i think as ignorant as most here in USA are of F1, there is equal snobishness in europe that CART is not as good. until you see both in person i would caution judgement. i've been a indycar fan siince '57... and an F1 fan since '62 yes i'm an old fart.. but i know what i'm talking about :D and thr current state of affairs here between CART/IRL is tearing the guts from our enjoyment. and my guess is CART will die in 2 years, or become a feeder for IRL. and IRL will begin to add road courses over the next couple years so that in 3 or 4 a transition will phase out CART and there will be one major US based open wheeled organization again. the joke of JV + baseball is aimed at the players here making astronomical $$... one player is being paid 25 MILLION a year, to 'play' baseball...his contract is 250 mil for 10 years. the average player makes 2.1 million! this in many cases is for sitting on the bench most of the time...... On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:30:06 -0400, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>>"bb" <[email hidden]> wrote >> we've never been on opposite sides but i must respond to your 'worst >> in F1....." comment. please dont exagerate. your argument as such >> would include alex yoong. >> do you mean you consider him better than ??? christiano de matta? or >> gil de ferran? helio castro neves? > >Read again ;) I didn't say better or worse drivers, I was talking about >being there, you know, being behind the wheel of a Formula One. I should >have said the "worst seat in F1 is still better then the best CART seat", >especially going into the 2003 season and all the conflicts of IRL/CART >still going on. > > >>and as for Jaques...... i think he WANTS to be a baseball player > >LOL? > > > >-- >-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> >-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ >-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez >Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

I loved watching Jacques in CART and was at Elkhart Lake when he won his first CART race. It would be great to see him come back but I can't blame him. Like others have said, F1 is still the most prestigious open wheeled racing series in the world (well, at least in Europe ;-). Think about what he'd be leaving and what he'd be going to. CART is in BIG financial trouble. Although F1's viewership is down...it's still F1. The cars, the glamour, the pit babes, the corporate parties, the prestige! Who would want to willingly leave that! :-) Sure, BAR is a team in turmoil. They've lost numerous engineers (the last one just went to a WRC team!). But in the end Jacques is still competing in F1. And at the moment this is what he wants to do, even if it means driving for a bottom end team. Keep in mind that although Jacques in Canadian, he grew up primarily in Europe and always wanted to be a part of the F1 circus. And those that think he's washed up...well, he's still widely regarded as one of the best drivers and would be very competitive if he was driving for a top team. I do agree that he is money hungry. He could easily drive for Mercedes or Williams but would have to take a severe pay cut, something he doesn't want to do. Now THAT pisses me off! Oh well, I'm still dreaming of a Montoya/Villeneuve Williams roster...ha ha! BTW, here's a link to the full story http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/12413 "bb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> yes ok.. i can accept 'seat'.... > > the ONE thing i prefer about CART over any other series, is often > overlooked. CART actually has a very varied system to determine the > champion. > > in nascar (and IRL).. primarily ovals... > in F1... road circuits > CART... road circuits, temp street circuits, short ovals, speedways > the only thing they lack is a heritage, steeped in tradition. i think > as ignorant as most here in USA are of F1, there is equal snobishness > in europe that CART is not as good. until you see both in person i > would caution judgement. > > i've been a indycar fan siince '57... and an F1 fan since '62 yes i'm > an old fart.. but i know what i'm talking about :D and thr current > state of affairs here between CART/IRL is tearing the guts from our > enjoyment. and my guess is CART will die in 2 years, or become a > feeder for IRL. and IRL will begin to add road courses over the next > couple years so that in 3 or 4 a transition will phase out CART and > there will be one major US based open wheeled organization again. > > > the joke of JV + baseball is aimed at the players here making > astronomical $$... one player is being paid 25 MILLION a year, to > 'play' baseball...his contract is 250 mil for 10 years. > > the average player makes 2.1 million! this in many cases is for > sitting on the bench most of the time...... > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:30:06 -0400, "ymenard" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >>"bb" <[email hidden]> wrote > >> we've never been on opposite sides but i must respond to your 'worst > >> in F1....." comment. please dont exagerate. your argument as such > >> would include alex yoong. > >> do you mean you consider him better than ??? christiano de matta? or > >> gil de ferran? helio castro neves? > > > >Read again ;) I didn't say better or worse drivers, I was talking about > >being there, you know, being behind the wheel of a Formula One. I should > >have said the "worst seat in F1 is still better then the best CART seat", > >especially going into the 2003 season and all the conflicts of IRL/CART > >still going on. > > > > > >>and as for Jaques...... i think he WANTS to be a baseball player > > > >LOL? > > > > > > > >-- > >-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > >-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > >-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > >Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > >

On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:30:32 GMT, "Carl Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Sure, BAR is a team in turmoil. They've lost numerous engineers (the last >one just went to a WRC team!). But in the end Jacques is still competing in >F1. And at the moment this is what he wants to do, even if it means driving >for a bottom end team. Keep in mind that although Jacques in Canadian, he >grew up primarily in Europe and always wanted to be a part of the F1 circus. >And those that think he's washed up...well, he's still widely regarded as >one of the best drivers and would be very competitive if he was driving for >a top team. I do agree that he is money hungry. He could easily drive for >Mercedes or Williams but would have to take a severe pay cut, something he >doesn't want to do. Now THAT pisses me off! Oh well, I'm still dreaming of a >Montoya/Villeneuve Williams roster...ha ha!

I didn't really get into F1 'til recently but why did Williams dump Villeneuve? Didn't he win the DC in '97? That's like dumping MShumacher after winning a DC. If Villeneuve had a capable car, would he be able to have a chance at another DC? He's not doing so well at BAR. Or is it the fact that he's getting paid a lot of money already, and plus he has won the DC before, he has no reason to try harder anymore. I'd love to see a Barrichello/Montoya of Ferrari vs Villeneuve/RShumacher of Williams. -- karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

<[email hidden]> > I didn't really get into F1 'til recently but why did Williams dump > Villeneuve? it was not so much that Williams dumped JV, but BAR was starting up, one of the two team principas was his manager and his contract with Williams was up for negotiation. JV wanted to go to BAR, BAR wanted JV and Williams didn't want to match the salary that JV would get at BAR. Remember also that for most teams the Drivers Championship is just a bonus. The manufacturer championship is what they all strive for. dave henrie

generally spoken, if a world champion leaves a team he just won with, somebody made mistake, and usually I guess it is the driver itself I can't see a team making a logic decision to dump such a driver Villeneuve might have been the new Schumacher if he stayed with a good team, and not a new team which is bound to not get to a podium the first 5 years BAR is completely dead now well, I guess he earned more money there - some drivers have got different priorities in their career [email hidden] wrote:

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> > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:30:32 GMT, "Carl Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Sure, BAR is a team in turmoil. They've lost numerous engineers (the last > >one just went to a WRC team!). But in the end Jacques is still competing in > >F1. And at the moment this is what he wants to do, even if it means driving > >for a bottom end team. Keep in mind that although Jacques in Canadian, he > >grew up primarily in Europe and always wanted to be a part of the F1 circus. > >And those that think he's washed up...well, he's still widely regarded as > >one of the best drivers and would be very competitive if he was driving for > >a top team. I do agree that he is money hungry. He could easily drive for > >Mercedes or Williams but would have to take a severe pay cut, something he > >doesn't want to do. Now THAT pisses me off! Oh well, I'm still dreaming of a > >Montoya/Villeneuve Williams roster...ha ha! > > I didn't really get into F1 'til recently but why did Williams dump > Villeneuve? Didn't he win the DC in '97? That's like dumping > MShumacher after winning a DC. If Villeneuve had a capable car, would > he be able to have a chance at another DC? He's not doing so well at > BAR. Or is it the fact that he's getting paid a lot of money already, > and plus he has won the DC before, he has no reason to try harder > anymore. > > I'd love to see a Barrichello/Montoya of Ferrari vs > Villeneuve/RShumacher of Williams. > > -- > karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

--

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > generally spoken, if a world champion leaves a team he just won with, > somebody made mistake, and usually I guess it is the driver itself > > I can't see a team making a logic decision to dump such a driver > > Villeneuve might have been the new Schumacher if he stayed with a good > team, and not a new team which is bound to not get to a podium the first > 5 years

On the contrary, Villeneuve made what must have seemed a reasonable move when he left Williams they year after he won his championship - after all he won no races in the 1998 Williams, and with the Supertec/Meccachrome engine they were down on power, and the BMW tie-in hadn't been confirmed. Williams had also lost Adrian Newey to McLaren, and Reynard had been successful quickly in CART etc. Also, Jacques is supposed to be a shareholder in BAR, as is Craig Pollock, though exact %-ages have never been openly declared (again iirc). Williams have a reputation of losing their champions for various reasons - Mansell with his ego/distrust of working with Prost, Hill supposedly over money (though never confirmed iirc), Prost deciding to retire, ... -- AG Remove removes from address to remove anti-spam measures. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alan Gauton E-Mail agauton @ postmaster.co.uk Never for me the lowered banner, never the last endeavour! (Damon Hill - 16th June 1999)

On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:50:12 -0400, "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Maybe JV enjoys road courses, massive braking forces, nimble handling cars, How do you figure that CART doesn't offer any of those points? Fair enough that CART cars are not as fast as F1 (6 secs slower I guess) but they are still extraordinary pieces of machinery. And CART was just as fast at Montreal as F1 was only 2 years ago. The difference is not what you are suggesting... Rafe Mc

><[email hidden]> wrote > I didn't really get into F1 'til recently but why did Williams dump > Villeneuve? Frank Williams always dumps his World Champions. Anyway, Williams was really not a good team this year, they were rebuilding. Craig Pollock started BAR, and since it was his ex-agent and best friend, he went to BAR. There was some politics here and also lotsa business reasons. > If Villeneuve had a capable car, would he be able to have a chance atanother DC? He's the only one who has proven he could beat Schumacher with an equal car. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote > >Maybe JV enjoys road courses, massive braking forces, nimble handlingcars, > > How do you figure that CART doesn't offer any of those points? No, it's just easy to figure that F1 offers this *more* then CART :) > And CART was just as fast at Montreal as F1 was only 2 years ago The Montr�al track back then was longer, at the most vital place in the circuit (the slowest part). -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Didn't Williams decide not to keep Damon Hill after his championship year? Tony Van Cauter wrote:

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> generally spoken, if a world champion leaves a team he just won with, > somebody made mistake, and usually I guess it is the driver itself > > I can't see a team making a logic decision to dump such a driver > > Villeneuve might have been the new Schumacher if he stayed with a good > team, and not a new team which is bound to not get to a podium the first > 5 years > > BAR is completely dead now > > well, I guess he earned more money there - some drivers have got > different priorities in their career > > [email hidden] wrote: > >>On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:30:32 GMT, "Carl Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >>>Sure, BAR is a team in turmoil. They've lost numerous engineers (the last >>>one just went to a WRC team!). But in the end Jacques is still competing in >>>F1. And at the moment this is what he wants to do, even if it means driving >>>for a bottom end team. Keep in mind that although Jacques in Canadian, he >>>grew up primarily in Europe and always wanted to be a part of the F1 circus. >>>And those that think he's washed up...well, he's still widely regarded as >>>one of the best drivers and would be very competitive if he was driving for >>>a top team. I do agree that he is money hungry. He could easily drive for >>>Mercedes or Williams but would have to take a severe pay cut, something he >>>doesn't want to do. Now THAT pisses me off! Oh well, I'm still dreaming of a >>>Montoya/Villeneuve Williams roster...ha ha! >>> >>I didn't really get into F1 'til recently but why did Williams dump >>Villeneuve? Didn't he win the DC in '97? That's like dumping >>MShumacher after winning a DC. If Villeneuve had a capable car, would >>he be able to have a chance at another DC? He's not doing so well at >>BAR. Or is it the fact that he's getting paid a lot of money already, >>and plus he has won the DC before, he has no reason to try harder >>anymore. >> >>I'd love to see a Barrichello/Montoya of Ferrari vs >>Villeneuve/RShumacher of Williams. >> >>-- >>karkrazy AT softhome DOT net >> > > -- >

Ah, but getting and equal car is the trick in F1 isn't it? Any given year there are 2 or 3 top flight team, a few mid packers, and then there 's BAR. What they need to do is find some decent engineers to design a proper car. After 4 years on the circuit they should have learned SOMETHING by now. Like I stated earlier in this thread even Stewart improved each year they were around. Or perhaps if Jacques took a year off they could put his salary into development and maybe come back with a competitive machine. This is what I enjoy about CART. Competitive machinery is offered to all teams. No team is obligated to develop their own chassis and engine (Penske used to be successful at it of course). Reynards and Lolas are available to EVERYONE. It's just what the team engineers and mechanics do with the equipment that may hinder performance. ymenard wrote:

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>><[email hidden]> wrote >>I didn't really get into F1 'til recently but why did Williams dump >>Villeneuve? >> > > Frank Williams always dumps his World Champions. Anyway, Williams was > really not a good team this year, they were rebuilding. Craig Pollock > started BAR, and since it was his ex-agent and best friend, he went to BAR. > There was some politics here and also lotsa business reasons. > > > >> If Villeneuve had a capable car, would he be able to have a chance at >> > another DC? > > He's the only one who has proven he could beat Schumacher with an equal car. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > >

On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:15:11 -0400, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>><[email hidden]> wrote >> I didn't really get into F1 'til recently but why did Williams dump >> Villeneuve? > >Frank Williams always dumps his World Champions. Anyway, Williams was >really not a good team this year, they were rebuilding. Craig Pollock >started BAR, and since it was his ex-agent and best friend, he went to BAR. >There was some politics here and also lotsa business reasons.

How was Jordon, when MShumacher won his first DC with them? Were they a really good team back then? The 2002 EJ12 seems to perform a lot better than BAR's, I wonder if Villeneuve could have a good year in this car. > >> If Villeneuve had a capable car, would he be able to have a chance at >another DC? > >He's the only one who has proven he could beat Schumacher with an equal car. Can you be more specific? I'd like to know more about this. -- karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

Jordan have never won a DC with anyone. In fact they didn't even win a race until Spa 1998 (Damon Hill 1st Ralf Schumacher 2nd). M. Schumacher won his first (and 2nd) DC with Benneton. -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > How was Jordon, when MShumacher won his first DC with them? Were they > a really good team back then? The 2002 EJ12 seems to perform a lot > better than BAR's, I wonder if Villeneuve could have a good year in > this car. > > > > >> If Villeneuve had a capable car, would he be able to have a chance at > >another DC? > > > >He's the only one who has proven he could beat Schumacher with an equal car. > > Can you be more specific? I'd like to know more about this. > > -- > karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (bb) writes: >the average salary is 2.1 Million, and for many that spend most of the >time on the reserve bench- Sounds like nice work if you can GET it...<g> I know *I* wouldn't complain at that salary... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:55:58 +0100, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Jordan have never won a DC with anyone. In fact they didn't even win a race >until Spa 1998 (Damon Hill 1st Ralf Schumacher 2nd). >M. Schumacher won his first (and 2nd) DC with Benneton. My mistake, I thought it was Jordan. Did MShumacher ever race with Jordan? -- karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

ymenard wrote: > > Frank Williams always dumps his World Champions. Not 100% true, but close enough I guess :-), for some strange reason, FW's drivers always seem to clinch titles at the end of their contract period, or with very short time to go, so when those guys come back to him and say "Hey, I'm the reigning WC, I really should get a pay rise" Guess what happens next, FW doesn't believe in putting too much money into his drivers, he puts them into his cars instead, and so far he seems to know what he's doing Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

[email hidden] wrote:

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> > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:55:58 +0100, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Jordan have never won a DC with anyone. In fact they didn't even win a race > >until Spa 1998 (Damon Hill 1st Ralf Schumacher 2nd). > >M. Schumacher won his first (and 2nd) DC with Benneton. > > My mistake, I thought it was Jordan. Did MShumacher ever race with > Jordan?

Yep, a couple of races in his rookie season, Benetton picked him up rather quickly though and EJ got a nice fat check Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

IIRC, he drove his first ever F1 race with Jordan (Spa 1991) and was grabbed up pretty quickly by Bennetton which he continued the season with. He won his first race at Spa the following year with Bennetton. -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:55:58 +0100, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Jordan have never won a DC with anyone. In fact they didn't even win a race > >until Spa 1998 (Damon Hill 1st Ralf Schumacher 2nd). > >M. Schumacher won his first (and 2nd) DC with Benneton. > > My mistake, I thought it was Jordan. Did MShumacher ever race with > Jordan? > > -- > karkrazy AT softhome DOT net

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:xYFb9.42232$[email hidden]: > Remember also that for most teams the Drivers Championship is > just a > bonus. The manufacturer championship is what they all strive for. > > dave henrie > Funny, more than a few managers are quoted as saying the exact reverse of that, and which has always been my understanding: the DWC comes before the CWC every time. Eg, Ferrari were *not* happy with the CWC, they had to make sure of winning the DWC. McLaren and Williams have only been playing the "Team" game with no named #1 drivers because they've known for the last 3 years they had no chance of winning the DWC with any of their drivers. That's my understanding of the situation anyway, the CWC is just a booby prize, the DWC is what they all strive for ;o) cheers John

wrong "JM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:xYFb9.42232$[email hidden]: > > > Remember also that for most teams the Drivers Championship is > > just a > > bonus. The manufacturer championship is what they all strive for. > > > > dave henrie > > > > Funny, more than a few managers are quoted as saying the exact reverse of > that, and which has always been my understanding: the DWC comes before the > CWC every time. Eg, Ferrari were *not* happy with the CWC, they had to > make sure of winning the DWC. McLaren and Williams have only been playing > the "Team" game with no named #1 drivers because they've known for the

last

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> 3 years they had no chance of winning the DWC with any of their drivers. > > That's my understanding of the situation anyway, the CWC is just a booby > prize, the DWC is what they all strive for ;o) > > cheers > John

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> [email hidden] wrote: > > > > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:55:58 +0100, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Jordan have never won a DC with anyone. In fact they didn't even win a race > > >until Spa 1998 (Damon Hill 1st Ralf Schumacher 2nd). > > >M. Schumacher won his first (and 2nd) DC with Benneton. > > > > My mistake, I thought it was Jordan. Did MShumacher ever race with > > Jordan? > > Yep, a couple of races in his rookie season, Benetton picked him up > rather quickly though and EJ got a nice fat check

Nope - he only drove the one race iirc. As for EJ getting a nice fat check, that took several years, and a trip to the law courts to sort that one out, and afaik the exact results of that process have never been revealed. -- AG Remove removes from address to remove anti-spam measures. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alan Gauton E-Mail agauton @ postmaster.co.uk Never for me the lowered banner, never the last endeavour! (Damon Hill - 16th June 1999)

Alan Gauton wrote: > > Nope - he only drove the one race iirc. As for EJ getting a nice fat > check, that took several years, and a trip to the law courts to sort that > one out, and afaik the exact results of that process have never been > revealed. Could well be you're right, I don't follow the in's and out's of F1 that closely anymore, I just seem to remember some comment from EJ that the check he got from Bennetton paid for his engines or words to that effect, I'm getting old and my memory is failing me Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--