OT: if America really cared about Soccer

Once again the cycling world has proven that America would clean the world's clock in soccer if it interested anyone here. After-all, we also have very little interests in cycling and so we sent over a guy for 7 years who only had one testicle. All he did was crush what we were told were the world's best bike riders.(and not one bike had a playing card stuck in the spokes for that cool 'motorbike' sound.) Imagine, if America was really serious...you can bet we'd send over someone with two cojones. So this year we again have to have somebody to ride in the Tour Day France. Who did we come up with? Just some broken down guy who will have his hip replaced in a few weeks. Oooh boy. Our top skier is a druken bum. yet he wins world championships. sheesh. So back to soccer. I saw the trophy, some dinky little bauble that resembles the brass covered popcorn box that MTV awards to movies. Americans like trophies that are huge. UGLY huge. Like that Stanley Tools trophy they have in Hockey. Or the incredibly garish Borg Warner trophy for the Indy 500. See? So with such a little teeny tiny trophy, there is just no way to motivate the American athelete. Therefore we'll have to continue throwing together a team of leftovers while the real atheletes play stick and ball sports. :) dave henrie

> Therefore we'll have to continue throwing together a team of leftovers > while the real atheletes play stick and ball sports. Is that why the USA is doing so well in tennis these days? How many USA drivers are there in the Indy Racing League, Champ Cars, or Formula 1? But you're right, USA doesn't care about soccer (neither do I). For one the the offsides rule is annoying and reduces the chance to score. Even a blue line rule for offsides in soccer might help the game. As it is, it's hard to get excited when many games end up with a 0/0 or 1/1 score and then it's penalty kicks. As far a the USA doing well in cycling, it could just be a fluke. As an example, China has dominated table tennis for most of the last 30 years, but there was a 7 year period back in the 1990's where two Swedish players dominated table tennis. One of them Jan Waldner, is considered the best table tennis player ever, because of the number of years he dominated the sport. It was a fluke, as Sweden is a small country, and there's little chance that another player of that caliber will ever appear again from Sweeden (or from any country).

[email hidden] (Jeff Reid) wrote: > For one the the offsides rule is annoying and reduces > the chance to score The USA will never "get" socc.. I mean football (as in a game played without using the hands) until it understands it's not the number of goals that matters. You can have a *great* game where neither side scores. That in itself guarantees football will never take off in the land where winning is everything. ;-) Andrew McP

Jeff Reid wrote:

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> As an example, China has dominated table tennis for most of the last > 30 years, but there was a 7 year period back in the 1990's where two > Swedish players dominated table tennis. One of them Jan Waldner, is > considered the best table tennis player ever, because of the number > of years he dominated the sport. It was a fluke, as Sweden is a small > country, and there's little chance that another player of that caliber > will ever appear again from Sweeden (or from any country).

You mean like Bjorn Borg?

Funny how D.Henrie can so easily decide what is off/on topic or whether the conversation meets his on/off topic standards... Has ymenard been reborn as president of RAS? Fu king hypocrites.... Mitch "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Once again the cycling world has proven that America

"Dave Henrie" wrote... > <snip> while the real atheletes play stick and > ball sports. Show me a stick and ball player who can cycle up the P�re Sourde and I'll call him an athlete. Jan. =---

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Once again the cycling world has proven that America would clean the > world's clock in soccer if it interested anyone here. After-all, we also > have very little interests in cycling and so we sent over a guy for 7 > years > who only had one testicle. All he did was crush what we were told were > the > world's best bike riders.(and not one bike had a playing card stuck in the > spokes for that cool 'motorbike' sound.) Imagine, if America was really > serious...you can bet we'd send over someone with two cojones. > So this year we again have to have somebody to ride in the Tour Day > France. Who did we come up with? Just some broken down guy who will > have > his hip replaced in a few weeks. Oooh boy. Our top skier is a druken > bum. > yet he wins world championships. sheesh. > So back to soccer. I saw the trophy, some dinky little bauble that > resembles the brass covered popcorn box that MTV awards to movies. > Americans like trophies that are huge. UGLY huge. Like that Stanley > Tools > trophy they have in Hockey. Or the incredibly garish Borg Warner trophy > for the Indy 500. See? So with such a little teeny tiny trophy, there > is just no way to motivate the American athelete. Therefore we'll have to > continue throwing together a team of leftovers while the real atheletes > play stick and ball sports. > > > :) > > dave henrie

The one testicled one's (former) best friend (and his wife) said he admitted to them he used steroids and other illegal enhancements. The guy who won today only did so because the top riders were taken out of the race because someone *accused* them of cheating in the past (convenient how it happened a day or two before the race start). Ruined the race for me. Innocent until at least SOME proof would be nice....like an admission of guilt to your best friend. -- David G Fisher

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>> As an example, China has dominated table tennis for most of the last >> 30 years, but there was a 7 year period back in the 1990's where two >> Swedish players dominated table tennis. One of them Jan Waldner, is >> considered the best table tennis player ever, because of the number >> of years he dominated the sport. It was a fluke, as Sweden is a small >> country, and there's little chance that another player of that caliber >> will ever appear again from Sweeden (or from any country). > You mean like Bjorn Borg?

Similar, but Bjorn Borg won 5 times at Wimbledon, never won the US Open, and it was a 4 to 5 year period where he was ranked number 1 on and off. In Jan Waldner's case, after his first win, China built it's team with the idea of beating Jan-Ove Waldner, but rarely accomplished this. Waldner didn't have any super shots, but he didn't have any weakness that could be exploited, so he continued to win many tournaments. This actually lasted for 10 years or so, and he's been in the top 10 for over 20 years, in spite of the fact the game changed slightly (larger ball, 11 point games). Here's a short clip of his play, well past his prime, but still a great player, and he demonstrates his soccer skills at the end of one point. http://jeffareid.net/real/tt2.wmv Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan-Ove_Waldner

>> For one the the offsides rule is annoying and reduces >> the chance to score > > The USA will never "get" socc.. I mean football (as in a game played > without using the hands) until it understands it's not the number of > goals that matters. You can have a *great* game where neither side scores. There are many soccer fans that agree with me on the offsides rule, especially when a team gets a lead and the defenders just move up the field a bit, because of this rule. A blue line rule like hockey would stop that. I think part of the appeal of soccer is the luck factor, where the underdog team has a descent chance of winning. You see a similar attitude with fans that hate the idea of instant replays, because their teams suck, and they need all the luck and/or bad calls they can't get so their favorite team or player has some chance of winning. One the other hand, table tennis rarely has upsets, yet is very popular outside the USA (Europe and China). Must be a different fan base.

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> The one testicled one's (former) best friend (and his wife) said he > admitted to them he used steroids and other illegal enhancements. The guy > who won today only did so because the top riders were taken out of the > race because someone *accused* them of cheating in the past (convenient > how it happened a day or two before the race start). Ruined the race for > me. Innocent until at least SOME proof would be nice....like an admission > of guilt to your best friend. >

The Tour has been clouded in drugs controversy for years now. I can't see how anybody can claim it's even remotely clean. No wonder they are all mutants.

redTed wrote:

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>>The one testicled one's (former) best friend (and his wife) said he >>admitted to them he used steroids and other illegal enhancements. The guy >>who won today only did so because the top riders were taken out of the >>race because someone *accused* them of cheating in the past (convenient >>how it happened a day or two before the race start). Ruined the race for >>me. Innocent until at least SOME proof would be nice....like an admission >>of guilt to your best friend. >> > > > The Tour has been clouded in drugs controversy for years now. > I can't see how anybody can claim it's even remotely clean. > No wonder they are all mutants. > >

LOL, well said!

[email hidden] (Jeff Reid) wrote: > Must be a different fan base. Table tennis is a minority sport in most nations, I believe.... though China probably pushes up the global popularity significantly. Recently I heard someone say that any nation has a finite capacity for nationally popular games. You need a critical mass of support for a game to become popular, and growing up watching/participating in a few, traditionally supported games is ingrained and self-perpetuating. So it's very hard for minority sports to get a significant foothold, although with a billion TV channels now all sports can now get at least *some* coverage. Andrew McP

[email hidden] (Mitch A.) wrote: > Funny how D.Henrie can so easily decide what is off/on topic I think you'll find some people have more credibility than others, and are therefore more easily tolerated when they drift OT. I class sport as topic drift in a group where we discuss sim racing, which is a kind of sport for the every lazy ;-) Andrew McP

[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> [email hidden] (Mitch A.) wrote: > >> Funny how D.Henrie can so easily decide what is off/on topic > > I think you'll find some people have more credibility than others, and > are therefore more easily tolerated when they drift OT. > > I class sport as topic drift in a group where we discuss sim racing, > which is a kind of sport for the every lazy ;-) > > Andrew McP

I expected this. I DID mark the topic oT and...I haven't seen other users of this group ask us to stop this topic yet. I'm not picking and choosing as a Lord God King of the Internet, although I should have some cachet with users here for all the free help that has been doled out over the years and years and years. So yeah...I burbled off topic....again...but I'm not gonna get into a silly squabble that does not sway either side. I offered a-bit of HUMOR as has been my want for these many many years. If this topic becomes painful to users, then I will again ask NICELY for folks to drop it. Thanks Andrew for the support. And yes, Mitch, I do appreciate your presence but I have seen the GROUP has limits and I as a user will try not to push beyond said limits. Have fun THAT is the key. dave henrie

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> Table tennis is a minority sport in most nations, I believe.... though > China probably pushes up the global popularity significantly. > > Recently I heard someone say that any nation has a finite capacity for > nationally popular games. You need a critical mass of support for a game > to become popular, and growing up watching/participating in a few, > traditionally supported games is ingrained and self-perpetuating. So > it's very hard for minority sports to get a significant foothold, > although with a billion TV channels now all sports can now get at least > *some* coverage.

At one time, table tennis was second only to soccer in terms of popularity in Europe, but this could be a combination of many events, especially during the cold months where an indoor sport is more popular. Germany and many other countries sponsor their own table tennis teams (professional players paid by their governments), and usually 2 or 3 teams at different levels of play. In terms of participants in Europe, it's one of the top sports in Europe (in the USA, it was bowling, not sure if this is still true). Obviously, it's popular in China and most pacific rim countries. A reference to Jan-Ove Walder in lists of player at end of this page (listed by first names alphabetically): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_tennis

There are more football players in the US than baseball players. Face it, youre just crap at football and the "we dont care" crap is a piss poor excuse. I know your post is tongue in cheek but a lot of people really believe that. "Military intelligence, two words combined that can't make sense" Dave Henrie wrote:

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> Once again the cycling world has proven that America would clean the > world's clock in soccer if it interested anyone here. After-all, we also > have very little interests in cycling and so we sent over a guy for 7 years > who only had one testicle. All he did was crush what we were told were the > world's best bike riders.(and not one bike had a playing card stuck in the > spokes for that cool 'motorbike' sound.) Imagine, if America was really > serious...you can bet we'd send over someone with two cojones. > So this year we again have to have somebody to ride in the Tour Day > France. Who did we come up with? Just some broken down guy who will have > his hip replaced in a few weeks. Oooh boy. Our top skier is a druken bum. > yet he wins world championships. sheesh. > So back to soccer. I saw the trophy, some dinky little bauble that > resembles the brass covered popcorn box that MTV awards to movies. > Americans like trophies that are huge. UGLY huge. Like that Stanley Tools > trophy they have in Hockey. Or the incredibly garish Borg Warner trophy > for the Indy 500. See? So with such a little teeny tiny trophy, there > is just no way to motivate the American athelete. Therefore we'll have to > continue throwing together a team of leftovers while the real atheletes > play stick and ball sports. > > > :) > > dave henrie

[email hidden] (Edgecrusher) wrote: > Face it, youre just crap at football I think there's no doubt that if the USA really *wanted* to be good at football, it would be. Nobody can match the economic and human resources they have at their disposal if they choose to get serious. Mind you, the Brazilians seem to manage pretty well with bare feet and a tennis ball as training for their youth. We could all learn a trick from them, even if they do seem to struggle after an air trip to Europe. It'd probably help if Ronaldo would lay off the in-flight peanuts. Chubby git. Andrew McP

Andrew MacPherson wrote:

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> [email hidden] (Edgecrusher) wrote: > >> Face it, youre just crap at football > > I think there's no doubt that if the USA really *wanted* to be good at > football, it would be. Nobody can match the economic and human resources > they have at their disposal if they choose to get serious. > > Mind you, the Brazilians seem to manage pretty well with bare feet and a > tennis ball as training for their youth. We could all learn a trick from > them, even if they do seem to struggle after an air trip to Europe. It'd > probably help if Ronaldo would lay off the in-flight peanuts. Chubby git.

Many Brazilians have little else to do with their time than kick a football around on the beach, especially those from poorer areas like Ronaldo. It's a shame he seems to have forgotten those days. I think Brazil's mistake was to pick out of form players like Ronaldo over the new talent that they have coming through - he may have scored enough goals to break the record but he didn't play well enough to deserve to be there. And nor did half of the defence. -- Phil http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/31307.html

> There are more soccer players in the US than baseball players. I doubt that, if you include minor league, college and amateur league play. Like Indy Racing League and Champ Cars, we import a lot of our soccer players, even more than baseball and basketball. So is it really a USA soccer team? But I think the orignal post was correct, USA (and I) just don't care for soccer. Because of the rules, especially the offsides rule, there's very little scoring. You can only take so much of watching a bunch of guys kicking the ball back and forth, without any progress. Baseball is boring enough, but it's an excuse for many fans to drink beer and eat hotdogs, since the game is so slow paced. At least with USA football, basketball, and tennis, the pace of the game is quicker and there's a sense of progress. There doesn't seem to be much interest in sports in general among the younger crowd in the USA, so don't expect much for soccer, which has never been popular here in the USA. As for the atheletes, college scholarships are mostly about baseball, basketball, and football, so that's what the atheletes target.

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : Once again the cycling world has proven that America would clean the : world's clock in soccer if it interested anyone here. After-all, we also : have very little interests in cycling and so we sent over a guy for 7 years : who only had one testicle. All he did was crush what we were told were the : world's best bike riders.(and not one bike had a playing card stuck in the : spokes for that cool 'motorbike' sound.) Imagine, if America was really : serious...you can bet we'd send over someone with two cojones. : So this year we again have to have somebody to ride in the Tour Day : France. Who did we come up with? Just some broken down guy who will have : his hip replaced in a few weeks. Oooh boy. Our top skier is a druken bum. : yet he wins world championships. sheesh. : So back to soccer. I saw the trophy, some dinky little bauble that : resembles the brass covered popcorn box that MTV awards to movies. : Americans like trophies that are huge. UGLY huge. Like that Stanley Tools : trophy they have in Hockey. Or the incredibly garish Borg Warner trophy : for the Indy 500. See? So with such a little teeny tiny trophy, there : is just no way to motivate the American athelete. Therefore we'll have to : continue throwing together a team of leftovers while the real atheletes : play stick and ball sports. Yeah, but still most of America could care less about cycling. What Landis accomplished on Thursday rivals anything Lance did on a single day. Absolutely awesome, particularly for some one that rides in pain each mile of every day. IMHO, the only way America might warm to soccer is if the scoring was changed. Something like a kick from a certain sector of the field is one point, but from another sector, it could be two, or maybe three points. A header could score two or more points depending on the sector of the field. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, putting a pick on the goalie by another team member would be legal :-)

What the hell does this have to do with Race Sims?? And for the record Soccer SUCKS !

> What the hell does this have to do with Race Sims?? > And for the record Soccer SUCKS ! Spoken like a true American.

"Little Joe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : And for the record Soccer SUCKS ! So do people that figure out who they're replying to.

> IMHO, the only way America might warm to soccer is if the scoring was > changed. As I previously posted, a lot of true soccer fans want the offsides rule changed, as this contribute the most to low scoring, and the holding of a lead once a team gets one. Something like a blue line similar to hockey would prevent a team's defense from moving up field to take advantage of the offsides rule. I wonder what soccer would be like if there were no offsides rule at all?

Bob V wrote:

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> IMHO, the only way America might warm to soccer is if the scoring was > changed. Something like a kick from a certain sector of the field is one > point, but from another sector, it could be two, or maybe three points. A > header could score two or more points depending on the sector of the field. > Oh yeah, I almost forgot, putting a pick on the goalie by another team > member would be legal :-) > >

You don't understand what soccer is about. it's not about how many goals you score, it's about how you play the game. A 0 - 0 game can be just as good as a high scoring game. I wouldn't want the rules changed just to make it appeal more to Americans with a short attention span.

Crap, players would just hang around a goal and it would look like a rugby match with players hoofing it from one end to the other. The same thing would happen in hockey, as soon as any player got the puck, they'd fire it the length of the ice and there would be less scoring in both sports. "Military intelligence, two words combined that can't make sense" Jeff Reid wrote: > I wonder what soccer would be like if there were no offsides rule at all? > >

Its true if you account for all registered players of all ages. "Military intelligence, two words combined that can't make sense" Jeff Reid wrote: > I doubt that, if you include minor league, college and amateur > league play.

[email hidden] (Garrot) wrote: > just to make it appeal more to Americans with a short attention span. It's more complex than that. Football.. ok, soccer reflects the world at large. Some days you put in a lot of effort to get nowhere at all; others hinge purely on a moment's luck. There's no big score to statistically prove which team was better on the day, just a battle of wits, brawn, and skill in which anything might happen. Soccer accepts that life is often unfair. The popular US games *tend* to be more about an ideal world in which the systematic application of hard work, broken down into easily digested plays, will gain victory. If only that were true in life! Andrew McP PS The main reason footy will never take off stateside is 45 mins without adverts!

Andrew MacPherson enlightened us with: > Soccer accepts that life is often unfair. The popular US games *tend* > to be more about an ideal world in which the systematic application > of hard work, broken down into easily digested plays, will gain > victory. If only that were true in life! But this is not entirely true, babysteps in the positive direction *is* sometimes the only way one can succeed in life in general. The analogy is flawed when the steps are exagerated. Some would argue that dealing with an addiction for example drugs or alcoholism, is a HUGE step, but in the scheme of things (compared to those NOT suffering from it) it is only one small part. Once you are off dope/alcohol, you then have to fix other little problems like, how you spend money, what your education level is, etc etc. Much like a football team (even soccer) if half the team is off eating donuts during the game (or as might be the case with addictive mentality) working for the the other team, I mean against your team, so to speak. well it is hard to win at anything. Secondly IMHO, the offsides rule, is like mother hen government, which when it see there is a profit involved with hard fought normal venture (im not talking about cherry picking, or standing around the goal OK? ) then they think they should stop it. I can see the rule isn't bad one, but the blue line (which I never thougth of before I guess) should be looked at, I mean speaking as a Dad with 3 kids at one time or another in soccer over the past several years, I have seen teams move the 2 defenders up to mid field lines to reject scoring, not by skill but by forcing the officials into calling offsides, by just walking as soon as they get beaten... instead of ANY merit of thier abilities to defend the goals. I say if they want to move up a little fine, but when they blatantly take advantage of the rule, and can just give up, and allow the whistle to save their ass, that is where I say BULL-----SH_t > > Andrew McP > > PS The main reason footy will never take off stateside is 45 mins > without adverts!

> Crap, players would just hang around a goal This doesn't happen in basketball, why would it in soccer. If you leave players hanging back around the opponents goal, then you're outmatched at your own goal. Maybe the no offsides rule would also have to include a reduction in the number of players on the field. Anyway, the other propose, a fixed line for offsides, seems a lot better than allowing a team's defensive line to determine what is offsides.

Teams can be out matched 11 to 10 for a whole game and not have the opponents score. However if the player stood on his own near the goal gets the ball, he has a 50-50 chance of scoring. Maybe hockey offside would work but that's about it. You dont need scoring every 10 minutes to have a great game. Football is great because the goals mean something, a lot more than basketball. Football is like having a date with a lovely woman, building up the suspense through the evening, building to a wonderful climax, sure sometimes it goes tits up but the times it doesnt makes up for it. Basketball is like having a 2 minute wank by yourself and is about as fulfilling too. "Military intelligence, two words combined that can't make sense" Jeff Reid wrote:

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>> Crap, players would just hang around a goal > > This doesn't happen in basketball, why would it in soccer. If you leave players > hanging back around the opponents goal, then you're outmatched at your own goal. > > Maybe the no offsides rule would also have to include a reduction in the number > of players on the field. > > Anyway, the other propose, a fixed line for offsides, seems a lot better than > allowing a team's defensive line to determine what is offsides. > >

Dave Henrie wrote: > So this year we again have to have > somebody to ride in the Tour Day France. Who did we come up with? > Just some broken down guy who will have his hip replaced in a few > weeks. Oooh boy. Well, it seems the mistery has been solved: http://tinyurl.com/sy9on Cheers, Hans

"Hans de Heer" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:44c8e5c8$0$4512 $[email hidden]:

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>> So this year we again have to have >> somebody to ride in the Tour Day France. Who did we come up with? >> Just some broken down guy who will have his hip replaced in a few >> weeks. Oooh boy. > > Well, it seems the mistery has been solved: > > http://tinyurl.com/sy9on > > Cheers, Hans

No, not mystery solved, but certainly it has been confused. I see the biking world trying to take back the prize and then the real nasties get involved...yes...the lawyers. dave henrie

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : "Hans de Heer" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:44c8e5c8$0$4512 : $[email hidden]: : : >> So this year we again have to have : >> somebody to ride in the Tour Day France. Who did we come up with? : >> Just some broken down guy who will have his hip replaced in a few : >> weeks. Oooh boy. : > : > Well, it seems the mistery has been solved: : > : > http://tinyurl.com/sy9on : > : > Cheers, Hans : : : No, not mystery solved, but certainly it has been confused. I see the : biking world trying to take back the prize and then the real nasties get : involved...yes...the lawyers. Something just doesn't smell right about these tests. He had been tested three or four previous times in this year's Tour, and came up negative. If he was going to cheat, why would he use something that is testosterone-based. After all, the "big three'' of Tour testing are EPO (an endurance building drug), amphetamine (for energy), and steroids (which are identified by elevated testosterone.) The question is why would he really have attempted to slip a banned substance past the drug testers? If he did, he was either suicidal or extremely naive.

[email hidden] (Bob V) wrote: > If he was going to cheat, why would he use something that > is testosterone-based. Who knows what goes on in their minds during such a feat of inhuman endurance? Judging by his pre-stage17 performance Landis needed *something* to turn himself around so dramatically. Maybe it was just The Power of Positive Thinking, but you can't blame the judges for being suspicious. It's their job after all! Hopefully he's cleared, but stage17 and the initial test *seem* to hint at something sneaky. Appearances can often be deceptive. But this is cycling. Andrew McP

[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> [email hidden] (Bob V) wrote: > >> If he was going to cheat, why would he use something that >> is testosterone-based. > > Who knows what goes on in their minds during such a feat of inhuman > endurance? Judging by his pre-stage17 performance Landis needed > *something* to turn himself around so dramatically. Maybe it was just > The Power of Positive Thinking, but you can't blame the judges for > being suspicious. It's their job after all! > > Hopefully he's cleared, but stage17 and the initial test *seem* to > hint at something sneaky. Appearances can often be deceptive. But this > is cycling. > > Andrew McP

I have to say when I first heard it was TESTOSTORONE taht was the culprit. I had to edit myself and refrain from an obvious America vs the World joke. And now...I hear that is his defense. He, and for my purposes, Americans, just produce more Testy stuff than the French. But I thought that was too cheap a point. Obviously, I have since lowered myself just enough to share that now. lol. dave henrie