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+ADwAIQ--- Fri, 07 Jan 2022 07:46:19 - Fri, 07 Jan 2022 07:46:19 --+AD4APA-h1 class+AD0AIg-linkback+ACIAPgA8-a href+AD0AIg-https://rec-autos-simulators.net/+ACIAPg-rec.autos.simulators+ADw-/a+AD4APA-/h1+AD4-
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Could've been me. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Sorry if I caused you any injury+ACE- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-A snip from an RAS post of mine on looking at the bump-modeling via Motec: +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-quot+ADs-if you crank the telemetry data sampling rate up all the way and take a +ADw-br+AD4- good look at the suspension travel and damper velocities it appears there's +ADw-br+AD4- something funky going on in there. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-I've seen instances of the suspension +ADw-br+AD4- oscillating through a 12cm range (6) in .05-second intervals in fairly +ADw-br+AD4- low-speed sections of Spa, and that just looks off to me. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Think about it+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- up and down 6cm, or 2+ACY-amp+ADs- 1/4 inches, 20 times per second. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-That's a jackhammer +ADw-br+AD4- on turbo-mode, not a shock absorber.+ACY-quot+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-Don't get me wrong - bump modeling is a good thing. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-But as I've said +ADw-br+AD4- before, I've driven through that section of Spa (Fagnes) back when you could +ADw-br+AD4- do it, and have ridden it on a bike with no suspension at all and 21mm tires +ADw-br+AD4- at 120psi. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-It just ain't that bumpy. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-And BTW, SJ/Champcar is a lousy +ADw-br+AD4- comparison+ADs- even stiffer cars, and on city streets to boot. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-Thank you for playing+ADs- please try again... +ADs--) +ADw-br+AD4APA-/div+AD4-
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+ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- Don't get me wrong - bump modeling is a good thing. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-br+AD4APA-/div+AD4-Bump modelling is a good thing, but the way you feel variations in +ADw-br+AD4- pitch and roll in a sim are similar to the way you feel lateral and +ADw-br+AD4- longitudinal acceleration. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Without the actual physical g-forces acting +ADw-br+AD4- on your body, the car will always feel like it's moving more slowly +ADw-br+AD4- than it is, that the cornering power is less than it actually is, and +ADw-br+AD4- that variations in pitch and roll caused by bumps are less than what +ADw-br+AD4- are actually being transferred to the car. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Any track that feels +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-quot+ADs-realistically+ACY-quot+ADs- bumpy in a sim looks totally ridiculous if you actually +ADw-br+AD4- look at the telemetry (and, 99+ACU- of the time, in a simple TV cam +ADw-br+AD4- replay). +ADw-br+AD4APA-/div+AD4-
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+ADw-div class+AD0AIg-content+ACIAPg-First off I respect your knowledge and experience Steve. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-Ive never driven spa and likely never will but I do have eyes and can see +ADw-br+AD4- cars of every type bobbing up and down +ACoAKgAq-ly when encountering bumps at +ADw-br+AD4- speed. +ACY-nbsp+ADs- All car types and all tracks are effected by bumps although some +ADw-br+AD4- are smoother than others (the F1 race in the mid-east comes to mind). +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-Perhaps the bumps arent modeled perfectly in GTR and the motec data looks +ADw-br+AD4- funky but Id rather have a simulation of the bump even if its not perfect +ADw-br+AD4- than an unrealistically flat track (which is what weve had to date). +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-Hmmm. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-So the Cart race in SJ wasnt an automobile race? +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Or you just blow it +ADw-br+AD4- off because it doesnt fit your questionable argument? +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-Basically youre saying if they cant do it right dont even try? +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Where would +ADw-br+AD4- we be in simracing had everyone had your idealogy. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Nowhere. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-No Indy500, no +ADw-br+AD4- Bill Elliots Nascar Challenge, no Indycar racing 1-2, no F1RC, no GPL, no +ADw-br+AD4- NRseries, no GTR, no GTL, no rFactor, no nothing. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-I prefer the devs at +ADw-br+AD4- least try. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-Why did GPL get a pass? +ACY-nbsp+ADs-It has a horrid tire model yet that didnt keep it +ADw-br+AD4- from being perhaps the best racing simulation for many years. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-
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Well you didn't wait long to make your 1st mistake... +ADs--) +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4APA-p+AD4-
Thus my comment commending bump modeling. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-I LIKE bumps+ADs- glass smooth +ADw-br+AD4- surfaces are boring. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-But dedicated motor racing circuits are by and large +ADw-br+AD4- much smoother than the streets we drive on, and the bumps they do have do +ADw-br+AD4- not resemble motocross tracks. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-The damper velocities in Motec look OK, it's +ADw-br+AD4- just the range of travel that makes it look off. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4APA-p+AD4-
Not at all+ADs- it's just that the Champcars have stiffer suspensions with less +ADw-br+AD4- travel, and city streets, even ones that get some TLC are nowhere near as +ADw-br+AD4- smooth as dedicated race tracks, which the GTR tracks are. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Those poor +ADw-br+AD4- suckers at SJ were getting liquified+ACE- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4APA-p+AD4-
Said nothing of the sort. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Only that I think they overshot it going for the +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-quot+ADs-effect.+ACY-quot+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Hell, I applaud SimBin for doing GTR+ADs- I love the idea of it, I +ADw-br+AD4- just never could sort out the stuttering graphics or get past the level of +ADw-br+AD4- chattering +ACY-amp+ADs- porpoising. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-The former was inherited from ISI in gMotor1, but +ADw-br+AD4- the latter was their own doing. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-It may be the bump amplitude in the +ADw-br+AD4- surfaces, or some harmonic coming from the frequency of the bumps and the +ADw-br+AD4- physics engine. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Dunno. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-I expect the effect on grip, particularly at low +ADw-br+AD4- speed, is why ISI is using a two-stage, tweakable+ACoAKgAq-pit shake effect in +ADw-br+AD4- rFactor instead of doing it with the racing surface. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Just a guess, though. +ADw-br+AD4- Too bad GTR's not as open as native ISI work so you could muck around in +ADw-br+AD4- there and see what's what. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-But I expect they'll have it sorted for the next +ADw-br+AD4- iteration of GTR and look forward to that+ADs- in the meantime I think I'll be +ADw-br+AD4- enjoying GTL. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-
Jeez, man+ADs- that was 1998, after all. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Papy themselves stealth-tweaked the +ADw-br+AD4- tire model with the first patch, and even Kaemmer himself has said the tire +ADw-br+AD4- model falls short. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Times change. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-As for it's longevity, GPL was never +ADw-br+AD4- perfect+ADs- it was just a huge leap over what had come before, and for some +ADw-br+AD4- time after it was still the best relative to what else was out there in +ADw-br+AD4- terms of the total package. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-In some ways it arguably still is+ADs- thus it's +ADw-br+AD4- continued following. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-I doubt we'll see that big a leap again+ADs- what you're +ADw-br+AD4- seeing now is convergence, where all sims are beginning to feel more alike. +ADw-br+AD4- Which is what you'd expect+ADs- cars being cars, after all. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-But I hope I'm +ADw-br+AD4- wrong - I would LOVE to see the sim that would have me uninstalling GPL... +ADw-br+AD4APA-/div+AD4-
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+ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs-This has nothing to do with this thread,(suprise+ACE-) but it might be +ADw-br+AD4- interesting none-the-less. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- Flipping channels last night I caught a bit of an old Nascar at Bristol +ADw-br+AD4- on ESPN Classic. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-The time frame looked to be around the days of thunder +ADw-br+AD4- time. +ADw-br+AD4- +ACM-3 was there, and Rusty had a black car, +ACY-nbsp+ADs-M Waltrip was still in the yellow +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- Kodak Pontiac. +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- Mark Martin hit the wall. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Some time later, they had a pit report and the +ADw-br+AD4- showed a shock in two pieces. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-The bumps were so bad that Martin had pulled +ADw-br+AD4- the shock shaft/seal from the shock body. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-It was not damaged, just pulled +ADw-br+AD4- completely out of the shell of the shock absorber. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-(damper to Euro folk?) +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- Timely? +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Yes. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Relevant? no. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-But dang wierd. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-dave henrie +ADw-br+AD4APA-/div+AD4-
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+ADw-div class+AD0AIg-avatar-container+ACIAPgA8-/div+AD4-Steve Blankenshi+ADw-/dt+AD4-
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Not so weird, Dave. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Seen it happen before - the top probably just came +ADw-br+AD4- unscrewed from vibration or hadn't been tightened properly. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-That's how you +ADw-br+AD4- rebuild 'em. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-Typically not mid-race, though... +ACY-nbsp+ADsAOw--) +ADw-br+AD4APA-/div+AD4-
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