rec.autos.simulators

by **Bob Curti** » Sat, 20 Nov 1999 04:00:00

I see. But it's all right with you that the SRO folks publicly lambasted
Papyrus? Kind of a double standard, wouldn't you agree? Personally, I don't
see where SRO has been put upon at all. They just more or less ignored the
conditions set by Papyrus for the use of the software and then had a hissy when
Shawn called them on it.

A "misunderstanding" or "an error?" What part of "Please *do not* cross-post
these patch(es) and/or this announcement to public web sites or newsgroups as
we would like to contain the amount of feedback that we receive through the
discussion board, and we would like to assure that outdated versions of these
beta patches are replaced immediately when new versions are released." is so
hard to understand? Seems pretty clear and unequivocal to me. I think your
friends in SRO just chose to ignore it.

> > You are missing the point. And what about the fact the there are link to
> > that web site on other racing sites? It's not put on Joe Bloe's the
> > Redneck website, but Joe Bloe the Redneck will get it from that site
> > along with others. We were given a chance to influence the "upgrades"
> > and might loose that chance because some people didn't respect Papyrus
> > wishes.

> The site is wrong and it should had never been there. I simply regret
> somebody from Papyrus posting this on a public newsgroup. It should have
> never happened, since the situation is between Papyrus and the SRO team.
> And I will simply not accept to see a fellow group of people like the SRO
> being publicly ridiculed for probably just a misunderstanding and an error.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...

> "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

--
Bob Curtin
Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
"If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy
skin"

by **Pete** » Sat, 20 Nov 1999 04:00:00

Shawn, no I wonder why in posting this to a public forum
you continue to propagate a long running feud between
yourself(Papyrus) and Marc Nelson. For those of us who
have heard and seen what goes on behind the scenes at Papy
and know the story between the two groups involved it is
no surprise that this whole thing has unfolded the way it
has. Whether Marc was right in posting something that
was posted to a public forum(ras) or not isn't my decision
to make. But Papyrus policy "Not to comment on things
appearing in public News Groups" has now been thrown
aside in order to attack a long standing nemesis seems
rather convenient on your part.
I applauded your decision to make the beta available
for all those that wished to try it in order to resolve the
problems that are plaguing N3 and its online play. But
to bring your problem with Marc's post public in the
manner you have has me wondering why the change in
long standing "Company policy"!
By the way Papyrus has never ever involved the
"Racing community on a large scale." In fact they
at times have tried to stiffle those that have tried to
support them the most!
As others have told me two wrongs don't make a
right! So deal with your "Problems" behind closed
doors, bringing them public will do nothing to help
anyones cause.

Pete

by **Kenny L** » Sat, 20 Nov 1999 04:00:00

IMHO, Marc, your actions fall under heading of "Irresponsible Journalism"
and I have deleted my bookmark to your site.

--
Kenny L.
#14 Generic Chevy
PRC Member
Wall Scrapers Racing Team

> Yes, it's amazing that if you wanted to keep the lid on this thing, that
> you would be so irresponsible to post the initial announcement in a
> public newsgroup. Silliest damn thing I've seen from you guys yet -
> except when it was posted (here in r.a.s., btw) that the CTS would be
> made available as a download.

> Also, stirring up a hornet's nest by posting a link to my site and
> inferring SRO will be the downfall of all open betas through Papyrus is
> pure horseshit. Your reluctance to embrace those who've supported you
> is known only to you and the company. Trying to sell it as anything
> else is sad...I thought better of your crew than to resort to childish
> stunts such as this.

> I think Papy needs to take a refresher course in public relations. You
> seem to be the class clown this week, care to sign 'em up?

> Cheers!

> Marc

> > ....and people wonder why we are reluctant to
> > involve the racing community on a large scale.

> > http://www.simracing.com/

> > Shawn Wise / Papyrus

by **ymenar** » Sat, 20 Nov 1999 04:00:00

Ed, they posted the public beta patch message on rec.autos.simulators also.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **hamme..** » Sat, 20 Nov 1999 04:00:00

I have to side with Marc on this one, at least initially. What he and
his site provide for the sim racing community is a valuable service,
and in fact furthers Papyrus's business, like it or not.

It also appears there is some history between you lads (Marc and
Shawn)... sounds kind of silly to me.

Marc, if you did this knowingly to pi$$ them off, then I'd kind of side
with them on it... but I give you the benefit of the doubt.

My opinion is that LESS people would see Marc's bit than would see
Shawn's post here on r.a.s... so I'm a little confused about the uproar
(??).

I'm also surprised at some of you that jump on Marc at this convenient
opportunity... SRO is a big part of supporting, improving, and
sustaining the sim racing community - something from which Papyrus
directly benefits greatly whether they'd like to admit it or not - and
thus I believe SRO deserves at least a shade of leeway.

Users are not your enemy Papy... the community is the reason you
exist. I buy all your products, sometimes even if I know I won't use
some of them much (e.x. NL), because I want to see you be as successful
as possible to support and facilitate your continued development of the
genre.

Attacks on the sim racer community (not that this is necessarily one)
is not going to endear you to me.

Marc: I read your reply to Shawn and empathize with your defense, to a
point. However, I'd be interesting in a passionless explanation of why
you posted when Shawn said not to. You obviously owe me no
explanation, I'm just curious as to your point of view.

Ah well, no big deal anyway, this will be forgotten in due course.
It's not like Papy has included us always and now will not... they are
inconsistent and randomly unsupportive in the past, I see no reason
this will really change that.

Hambone

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

by **Supama** » Sat, 20 Nov 1999 04:00:00

"to resort to childish stunts such as this."

Unlike a mature decision to post something that was specifically told not to
be posted as you did?

> Yes, it's amazing that if you wanted to keep the lid on this thing, that
> you would be so irresponsible to post the initial announcement in a
> public newsgroup. Silliest damn thing I've seen from you guys yet -
> except when it was posted (here in r.a.s., btw) that the CTS would be
> made available as a download.

> Also, stirring up a hornet's nest by posting a link to my site and
> inferring SRO will be the downfall of all open betas through Papyrus is
> pure horseshit. Your reluctance to embrace those who've supported you
> is known only to you and the company. Trying to sell it as anything
> else is sad...I thought better of your crew than to resort to childish
> stunts such as this.

> I think Papy needs to take a refresher course in public relations. You
> seem to be the class clown this week, care to sign 'em up?

> Cheers!

> Marc

> > ....and people wonder why we are reluctant to
> > involve the racing community on a large scale.

> > http://www.simracing.com/

> > Shawn Wise / Papyrus

by **Goy Larse** » Sat, 20 Nov 1999 04:00:00

> IMHO, Marc, your actions fall under heading of "Irresponsible Journalism"
> and I have deleted my bookmark to your site.

I agree, let's crucify Marc here, no need to remember all that he and
his friends has done for the community over the years, that is nothing
compared to this, BURN BURN BURN.............

(uncle) Goy

by **Mike Grand** » Sat, 20 Nov 1999 04:00:00

Misunderstanding, you're telling me they cannot read or comprehend. Think a
while before you post Frank.

--
Michael K. Grandy
Non Stop Cable Services
Regional Sales

> > You are missing the point. And what about the fact the there are link to
> > that web site on other racing sites? It's not put on Joe Bloe's the
> > Redneck website, but Joe Bloe the Redneck will get it from that site
> > along with others. We were given a chance to influence the "upgrades"
> > and might loose that chance because some people didn't respect Papyrus
> > wishes.

> The site is wrong and it should had never been there. I simply regret
> somebody from Papyrus posting this on a public newsgroup. It should have
> never happened, since the situation is between Papyrus and the SRO team.
> And I will simply not accept to see a fellow group of people like the SRO
> being publicly ridiculed for probably just a misunderstanding and an
error.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...

> "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **Mike Grand** » Sat, 20 Nov 1999 04:00:00

Regardless of where it was posted Marc, he specifically asked it not to be
put on a website. Which part was not understood?

--
Michael K. Grandy
Non Stop Cable Services
Regional Sales

> Not the plan? FWIW, r.a.s. is the biggest single public newsgroup
> devoted to racing on the PC. If Shawn (or Papyrus) wanted a small focus
> group, then why post it here...poor planning?

> Cheers!

> Marc

> > On 19 Nov 1999 07:22:37 GMT,

> > > Papy was targeting a very small focus group, r.a.s. readers,
> > >and wanted it to stay that way.

> > Actually, that wasn't the plan at all. They were targeting a
> > small focus group in the n3.discussion newsgroup on
> > a private news server at: 206.27.21.29 .

> > --
> > [ - rrevved at bellsouth dot net - ]

by **Mike Grand** » Sat, 20 Nov 1999 04:00:00

I have also deleted the bookmark. Can you not just admit to your mistakes.

--
Michael K. Grandy
Non Stop Cable Services
Regional Sales

> IMHO, Marc, your actions fall under heading of "Irresponsible Journalism"
> and I have deleted my bookmark to your site.

> --
> Kenny L.
> #14 Generic Chevy
> PRC Member
> Wall Scrapers Racing Team

> > Yes, it's amazing that if you wanted to keep the lid on this thing, that
> > you would be so irresponsible to post the initial announcement in a
> > public newsgroup. Silliest damn thing I've seen from you guys yet -
> > except when it was posted (here in r.a.s., btw) that the CTS would be
> > made available as a download.

> > Also, stirring up a hornet's nest by posting a link to my site and
> > inferring SRO will be the downfall of all open betas through Papyrus is
> > pure horseshit. Your reluctance to embrace those who've supported you
> > is known only to you and the company. Trying to sell it as anything
> > else is sad...I thought better of your crew than to resort to childish
> > stunts such as this.

> > I think Papy needs to take a refresher course in public relations. You
> > seem to be the class clown this week, care to sign 'em up?

> > Cheers!

> > Marc

> > > ....and people wonder why we are reluctant to
> > > involve the racing community on a large scale.

> > > http://www.simracing.com/

> > > Shawn Wise / Papyrus

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