+ADwAIQ-DOCTYPE html+AD4- +ADw-html dir+AD0AIg-ltr+ACI- lang+AD0AIg-en-gb+ACIAPg- +ADwAIQ--- 8+AF8-54078dcd1038a017+AF8-2 Fri, 07 Jan 2022 20:42:22 --+AD4- +ADw-head+AD4- +ADw-meta name+AD0-'description' content+AD0-'Archive of rec.autos.simulators usenet newsgroup for discussion of car and other vehicle racing simulators.'+AD4- +ADw-meta http-equiv+AD0AIg-content-type+ACI- content+AD0AIg-text/html+ADs-charset+AD0-utf-8+ACI- /+AD4- +ADw-title+AD4-How important are setups for a sim? 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(to be a sim)+ADw-/h2+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-action-bar top+ACIAPg- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-pagination+ACIAPg- +ADw-ul+AD4- +ADw-li class+AD0AIg-pageleft+ACIAPg-Page:+ADw-/li+AD4APA-li+AD4APA-a href+AD0AIg-8+AF8-54078dcd1038a017+AF8-1.html+ACI- role+AD0AIg-button+ACIAPg-1+ADw-/a+AD4APA-/li+AD4- +ADw-li+AD4APA-a href+AD0AIg-8+AF8-54078dcd1038a017+AF8-2.html+ACI- role+AD0AIg-button+ACIAPg-2+ADw-/a+AD4APA-/li+AD4- +ADw-/ul+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-div id+AD0AIg-p16+ACI- class+AD0AIg-post has-profile bg1+ACIAPg- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-inner+ACIAPg- +ADw-dl class+AD0AIg-postprofile+ACI- id+AD0AIg-profile16+ACIAPg- +ADw-dt class+AD0AIg-has-profile-rank no-avatar+ACIAPg- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-avatar-container+ACIAPgA8-/div+AD4-Mikko Harjul+ADw-/dt+AD4- +ADw-/dl+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-postbody+ACIAPg- +ADw-div id+AD0AIg-post+AF8-content16+ACIAPg- +ADw-h3 class+AD0AIg-first+ACIAPgA8-a href+AD0AIgAj-p16+ACIAPg-How important are setups for a sim? (to be a sim)+ADw-/a+AD4APA-/h3+AD4- +ADw-p class+AD0AIg-author+ACIAPg- +ADw-span class+AD0AIg-responsive-hide+ACIAPg-by +ADw-strong+AD4-Mikko Harjul+ADw-/strong+AD4- +ACY-raquo+ADs- +ADw-/span+AD4-Fri, 16 Oct 1998 04:00:00+ADw-/p+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-content+ACIAPgA8-p+AD4APA-div class+AD0AIg-gQuote+ACIAPg- +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- I agree, my only doubt is whether it would be possible to program such +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- an expert system into a PC game. If it were, I wouldn't be too surprised +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- if some of those highly trained professionals started worrying about +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- their job security... +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-br+AD4APA-/div+AD4-Not likely. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-I would guess that in real life much of the success comes +ADw-br+AD4- from the ability of the driver to precisely express how the car is +ADw-br+AD4- behaving and especially how he would like it and the engineer to know +ADw-br+AD4- the driver and have a gut feeling how this guy likes his car for +ADw-br+AD4- different tracks, weather conditions and strategic situations. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-What comes to +ACoAKgAq- I totally agree with more driving and less +ADw-br+AD4- tuning. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-But hey - we already have that+ACE- +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Just take Justin Tyme's +ADw-br+AD4- setups and start driving+ACE- +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Then when you get so good that the +ADw-br+AD4- behaviour of the car is the +AF8-most+AF8- limiting factor you need to start +ADw-br+AD4- fine tuning. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-At that point it propably will be rewarding if you can +ADw-br+AD4- see that lap times improving by the small changes you make and little +ADw-br+AD4- by little learn more how these things affect the feel of the car. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-Actually I feel sorry for those that buy the game and don't have +ADw-br+AD4- internet connection. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-So there is a point, the game shuld have better +ADw-br+AD4- default setups. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4--- +ADw-br+AD4- Mikko Harjula +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs-SQ Consulting Oy +ACY-nbsp+ADsAfA- If you email me from a +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-br+AD4- tel. +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +358-3-3165206 +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs-33720 Tampere +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +AHw- use subject +ACY-quot+ADs-I AM NOT SPAM+ACY-quot+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- fax +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADvfnw-3-3165201 +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs-FINLAND +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +AHw- +ADw-br+AD4APA-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-div id+AD0AIg-p17+ACI- class+AD0AIg-post has-profile bg2+ACIAPg- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-inner+ACIAPg- +ADw-dl class+AD0AIg-postprofile+ACI- id+AD0AIg-profile17+ACIAPg- +ADw-dt class+AD0AIg-has-profile-rank no-avatar+ACIAPg- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-avatar-container+ACIAPgA8-/div+AD4-Richard G Cleg+ADw-/dt+AD4- +ADw-/dl+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-postbody+ACIAPg- +ADw-div id+AD0AIg-post+AF8-content17+ACIAPg- +ADw-h3 class+AD0AIg-first+ACIAPgA8-a href+AD0AIgAj-p17+ACIAPg-How important are setups for a sim? (to be a sim)+ADw-/a+AD4APA-/h3+AD4- +ADw-p class+AD0AIg-author+ACIAPg- +ADw-span class+AD0AIg-responsive-hide+ACIAPg-by +ADw-strong+AD4-Richard G Cleg+ADw-/strong+AD4- +ACY-raquo+ADs- +ADw-/span+AD4-Fri, 16 Oct 1998 04:00:00+ADw-/p+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-content+ACIAPg- +ACY-nbsp+ADsAJg-lt+ADs-Racing sims should include set-up advice+ACY-gt+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4-: I agree, my only doubt is whether it would be possible to program such +ADw-br+AD4- : an expert system into a PC game. If it were, I wouldn't be too surprised +ADw-br+AD4- : if some of those highly trained professionals started worrying about +ADw-br+AD4- : their job security... +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- It would be simple to provide some pretty basic tips for set-up that +ADw-br+AD4- would help newbies on their way. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- For example: +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Front wheels loose grip before back on cornering: +ADw-br+AD4- Mechanic says +ACY-quot+ADs-Hmm... you seem to be getting some understeer+ACY-quot+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- It happens under braking: +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Mechanic says +ACY-quot+ADs-Perhaps we should fiddle the +ADw-br+AD4- the brake balance+ACY-quot+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- It happens in a fast corner: +ACY-nbsp+ADsAJg-quot+ADs-Perhaps we could run more front wing.+ACY-quot+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- etc etc etc... +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- Of course you would want an option to say +ACY-quot+ADs-it's just my driving style +ADw-br+AD4- thanks+ACY-quot+ADs- and, of course, an option to go it alone. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- After years of playing F1GP2 I can still get hopelessly lost if I +ADw-br+AD4- fiddle around with anti-roll bars and bump +ACoAKgAq-s too much... +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Some +ADw-br+AD4- interactive advice to get round this would be brilliant. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-I don't want +ADw-br+AD4- to be led by the nose - but the fact is that a real driver has plenty of +ADw-br+AD4- people looking at the telemetry to help him. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- My ideal F1 sim would have set-up options like this: +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- 1) Floating ideal set up - that is to say track temperatures on race +ADw-br+AD4- day means that you can't simply +ACY-quot+ADs-download the +AF8-best+AF8- set up from the +ADw-br+AD4- net+ACY-quot+ADs- because the +AF8-best+AF8- set up depends on whether it's a warm morning, +ADw-br+AD4- whether the track has been scrubbed of +ACoAKgAq-, whether it's windy and +ADw-br+AD4- whether the air is moist. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Each time you race you have to work out an +ADw-br+AD4- ideal set up in practice and qualifying. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-This feature would only be for +ADw-br+AD4- the real buffs - but, at the moment, I think that set-ups in sims are a +ADw-br+AD4- bit artificial because you can gradually refine them over many races on +ADw-br+AD4- the same course rather than knowing +ACY-quot+ADs-it'll kind of be like it was last +ADw-br+AD4- time but probably with some differences+ACY-quot+ADs-. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- 2) An option (perhaps only for the beginner levels) to say +ACY-quot+ADs-give me a +ADw-br+AD4- good set up+ACY-quot+ADs- - for those times when you simply want to get out there and +ADw-br+AD4- race. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Your car is +AF8-at least+AF8- as well set up as those of the computer +ADw-br+AD4- opponents. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Of course you could improve it by +ACY-quot+ADs-tweaking by hand+ACY-quot+ADs- but +ADw-br+AD4- it's drivable and races are winnable. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Not everyone is interested in +ADw-br+AD4- set-up. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-I am but I realise it's not everyone's cup of tea. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- 3) A mechanic who will provide advice. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-No real driver has to make +ADw-br+AD4- estimates of tyre wear himself. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-No real driver does all the telemetry +ADw-br+AD4- work on his own. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-It would not be that difficult to add this feature to +ADw-br+AD4- a program like GP2 where a lot of telemetry data is available. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-(I mean +ADw-br+AD4- it wouldn't be difficult if you had access to the source - it would be +ADw-br+AD4- damn near impossible to hack it on afterwards). +ACY-nbsp+ADs-You can easily tell +ADw-br+AD4- understeer from oversteer on telemetry (by looking at which wheel loses +ADw-br+AD4- grip first). +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- 4) The +ACY-quot+ADs-mechanic+ACY-quot+ADs- would relate set-up advice to telemetry - that is, +ADw-br+AD4- he would say +ACY-quot+ADs-I think we're getting understeer from poor brake balance+ACY-quot+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- and flash up a screen of telemetry showing front wheel revs, back wheel +ADw-br+AD4- revs and braking. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-I think that, on F1GP2, I'm not unique in finding it +ADw-br+AD4- hard to tell when grip problems are to do with wings, roll-bars, spring +ADw-br+AD4- settings or brake balance or a combination. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- 5) Also a virtual +ACY-quot+ADs-mechanic+ACY-quot+ADs- could provide driving advice for new +ADw-br+AD4- players who wanted it. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-E.g. +ACY-quot+ADs-I think you could go faster into Pouhon+ACY-quot+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- or +ACY-quot+ADs-I think you're going to fast into the third corner and losing speed +ADw-br+AD4- on exit+ACY-quot+ADs-. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4--- +ADw-br+AD4- Richard G. Clegg +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- Only the mind is waving +ADw-br+AD4- Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-br+AD4- www: http://www.racesimcentral.net/+ADw-br+AD4APA-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-div id+AD0AIg-p18+ACI- class+AD0AIg-post has-profile bg1+ACIAPg- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-inner+ACIAPg- +ADw-dl class+AD0AIg-postprofile+ACI- id+AD0AIg-profile18+ACIAPg- +ADw-dt class+AD0AIg-has-profile-rank no-avatar+ACIAPg- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-avatar-container+ACIAPgA8-/div+AD4-Paul Jone+ADw-/dt+AD4- +ADw-/dl+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-postbody+ACIAPg- +ADw-div id+AD0AIg-post+AF8-content18+ACIAPg- +ADw-h3 class+AD0AIg-first+ACIAPgA8-a href+AD0AIgAj-p18+ACIAPg-How important are setups for a sim? (to be a sim)+ADw-/a+AD4APA-/h3+AD4- +ADw-p class+AD0AIg-author+ACIAPg- +ADw-span class+AD0AIg-responsive-hide+ACIAPg-by +ADw-strong+AD4-Paul Jone+ADw-/strong+AD4- +ACY-raquo+ADs- +ADw-/span+AD4-Fri, 16 Oct 1998 04:00:00+ADw-/p+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-content+ACIAPgA8-p+AD4APA-div class+AD0AIg-gQuote+ACIAPg- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs-I'd like to be able to do a few laps, and then, a +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- virtual ingeneer could analyse the graphs taken from these laps (wich show my +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- driving style) and give me some hints as to what to change in my setup. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-br+AD4APA-/div+AD4-What a good idea +ACEAIQAh- :-) +ADw-br+AD4- Paul +ADw-br+AD4APA-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-div id+AD0AIg-p19+ACI- class+AD0AIg-post has-profile bg2+ACIAPg- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-inner+ACIAPg- +ADw-dl class+AD0AIg-postprofile+ACI- id+AD0AIg-profile19+ACIAPg- +ADw-dt class+AD0AIg-has-profile-rank no-avatar+ACIAPg- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-avatar-container+ACIAPgA8-/div+AD4-Paul Jone+ADw-/dt+AD4- +ADw-/dl+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-postbody+ACIAPg- +ADw-div id+AD0AIg-post+AF8-content19+ACIAPg- +ADw-h3 class+AD0AIg-first+ACIAPgA8-a href+AD0AIgAj-p19+ACIAPg-How important are setups for a sim? (to be a sim)+ADw-/a+AD4APA-/h3+AD4- +ADw-p class+AD0AIg-author+ACIAPg- +ADw-span class+AD0AIg-responsive-hide+ACIAPg-by +ADw-strong+AD4-Paul Jone+ADw-/strong+AD4- +ACY-raquo+ADs- +ADw-/span+AD4-Fri, 16 Oct 1998 04:00:00+ADw-/p+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-content+ACIAPg-I think the ideas going on in this thread are just fantastic. Papyrus, Ubisoft +ADw-br+AD4- and Codemasters are you reading all this? This would not only help people +ADw-br+AD4- enormously but also make the setups fun in themselves. I would buy a sim with +ADw-br+AD4- this done well in even if the graphics stank. You good animate the virtual +ADw-br+AD4- mecanic as well - sounds like a gimmic but did anyone ever play with the +ADw-br+AD4- virtual doctor on old UNIX systems? How about a Ross Brawn animation standing +ADw-br+AD4- over your car stroking his chin and pointing to the various bits as you +ADw-br+AD4- discussed them with him - sounds outlandish but it could be done. This needed +ADw-br+AD4- be limited to why your car might not be behaving properly from a mechanical +ADw-br+AD4- viewpoint but he could also suggest how you might get an extra few tenths by +ADw-br+AD4- adapting your driving. Codemasters have done a very preliminary sort of thing +ADw-br+AD4- with Colin McRae's driving school in CMR but they have only scratched the +ADw-br+AD4- surface. With the sort of telemetry available nowadays a whole lot more could +ADw-br+AD4- be done. +ADw-br+AD4- The current crop of sims have got the physics and AIs much better worked out +ADw-br+AD4- than their forebears, but the setups remain in the relative dark ages. +ADw-br+AD4- Paul +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-gQuote+ACIAPg- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADsAJg-lt+ADs-Racing sims should include set-up advice+ACY-gt+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- : I agree, my only doubt is whether it would be possible to program such +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- : an expert system into a PC game. If it were, I wouldn't be too surprised +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- : if some of those highly trained professionals started worrying about +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- : their job security... +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- It would be simple to provide some pretty basic tips for set-up that +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- would help newbies on their way. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- For example: +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Front wheels loose grip before back on cornering: +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- Mechanic says +ACY-quot+ADs-Hmm... you seem to be getting some understeer+ACY-quot+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- It happens under braking: +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Mechanic says +ACY-quot+ADs-Perhaps we should fiddle the +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- the brake balance+ACY-quot+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- It happens in a fast corner: +ACY-nbsp+ADsAJg-quot+ADs-Perhaps we could run more front wing.+ACY-quot+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- etc etc etc... +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- Of course you would want an option to say +ACY-quot+ADs-it's just my driving style +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- thanks+ACY-quot+ADs- and, of course, an option to go it alone. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- After years of playing F1GP2 I can still get hopelessly lost if I +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- fiddle around with anti-roll bars and bump +ACoAKgAq-s too much... +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Some +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- interactive advice to get round this would be brilliant. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-I don't want +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- to be led by the nose - but the fact is that a real driver has plenty of +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- people looking at the telemetry to help him. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- My ideal F1 sim would have set-up options like this: +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- 1) Floating ideal set up - that is to say track temperatures on race +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- day means that you can't simply +ACY-quot+ADs-download the +AF8-best+AF8- set up from the +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- net+ACY-quot+ADs- because the +AF8-best+AF8- set up depends on whether it's a warm morning, +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- whether the track has been scrubbed of +ACoAKgAq-, whether it's windy and +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- whether the air is moist. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Each time you race you have to work out an +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- ideal set up in practice and qualifying. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-This feature would only be for +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- the real buffs - but, at the moment, I think that set-ups in sims are a +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- bit artificial because you can gradually refine them over many races on +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- the same course rather than knowing +ACY-quot+ADs-it'll kind of be like it was last +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- time but probably with some differences+ACY-quot+ADs-. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- 2) An option (perhaps only for the beginner levels) to say +ACY-quot+ADs-give me a +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- good set up+ACY-quot+ADs- - for those times when you simply want to get out there and +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- race. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Your car is +AF8-at least+AF8- as well set up as those of the computer +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- opponents. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Of course you could improve it by +ACY-quot+ADs-tweaking by hand+ACY-quot+ADs- but +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- it's drivable and races are winnable. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Not everyone is interested in +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- set-up. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-I am but I realise it's not everyone's cup of tea. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- 3) A mechanic who will provide advice. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-No real driver has to make +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- estimates of tyre wear himself. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-No real driver does all the telemetry +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- work on his own. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-It would not be that difficult to add this feature to +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- a program like GP2 where a lot of telemetry data is available. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-(I mean +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- it wouldn't be difficult if you had access to the source - it would be +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- damn near impossible to hack it on afterwards). +ACY-nbsp+ADs-You can easily tell +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- understeer from oversteer on telemetry (by looking at which wheel loses +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- grip first). +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- 4) The +ACY-quot+ADs-mechanic+ACY-quot+ADs- would relate set-up advice to telemetry - that is, +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- he would say +ACY-quot+ADs-I think we're getting understeer from poor brake balance+ACY-quot+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- and flash up a screen of telemetry showing front wheel revs, back wheel +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- revs and braking. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-I think that, on F1GP2, I'm not unique in finding it +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- hard to tell when grip problems are to do with wings, roll-bars, spring +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- settings or brake balance or a combination. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- 5) Also a virtual +ACY-quot+ADs-mechanic+ACY-quot+ADs- could provide driving advice for new +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- players who wanted it. +ACY-nbsp+ADs-E.g. +ACY-quot+ADs-I think you could go faster into Pouhon+ACY-quot+ADs- +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- or +ACY-quot+ADs-I think you're going to fast into the third corner and losing speed +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- on exit+ACY-quot+ADs-. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- -- +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- Richard G. Clegg +ACY-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- Only the mind is waving +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- www: http://www.racesimcentral.net/+ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-br+AD4APA-/div+AD4APA-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-div id+AD0AIg-p20+ACI- class+AD0AIg-post has-profile bg1+ACIAPg- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-inner+ACIAPg- +ADw-dl class+AD0AIg-postprofile+ACI- id+AD0AIg-profile20+ACIAPg- +ADw-dt class+AD0AIg-has-profile-rank no-avatar+ACIAPg- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-avatar-container+ACIAPgA8-/div+AD4-Byron Forbe+ADw-/dt+AD4- +ADw-/dl+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-postbody+ACIAPg- +ADw-div id+AD0AIg-post+AF8-content20+ACIAPg- +ADw-h3 class+AD0AIg-first+ACIAPgA8-a href+AD0AIgAj-p20+ACIAPg-How important are setups for a sim? (to be a sim)+ADw-/a+AD4APA-/h3+AD4- +ADw-p class+AD0AIg-author+ACIAPg- +ADw-span class+AD0AIg-responsive-hide+ACIAPg-by +ADw-strong+AD4-Byron Forbe+ADw-/strong+AD4- +ACY-raquo+ADs- +ADw-/span+AD4-Sat, 17 Oct 1998 04:00:00+ADw-/p+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-content+ACIAPg-Apart from the fact that some setups are very good in all peoples eyes and so the art +ADw-br+AD4- of setting a car up is an integral part of a true sim, the other major need for setup +ADw-br+AD4- options is to set the car up to suit your driving techniques in general and from track to +ADw-br+AD4- track. Funnily enough, I think most of our individual driving techniques are born from the +ADw-br+AD4- types of setups we use when we first start driving a new sim/track. +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4APA-div class+AD0AIg-gQuote+ACIAPg- +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-gt+ADs- This is something I've always felt. I find setups tedious and, frankly, I haven't +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- got enough time to monkey with bump lengths even if I knew what they were. I just +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- want to race. To have be at the top of some sims you need to be a driver and an +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- engineer (though I think in reality most drivers do have an intricate +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- understanding of how all this works). I've come to the conclusion that I don't +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- care if people call this or that racing game a sim anymore. What matters to me is +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- that I enjoy it which usually involves it being realistic as regards the car, the +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- road, the weather and what ever else is involved in the actual driving (rather +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- than racing) experience. I love your idea of simulated engineers and mecanics - +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- nice one :-) +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-gt+ADs- Paul +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-br+AD4APA-/div+AD4--- +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Byron Forbes +ADw-br+AD4- +ACY-nbsp+ADs-Captain of Team Lightning Bolt +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs-http://members.tripod.com/+AH4-HOSHUMUNGUS +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs- +ACY-nbsp+ADs- and +ADw-br+AD4- +ADw-p+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADs-http://www.frontiernet.net/+AH4-godsoe/bolt/home.htm +ADw-br+AD4APA-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-hr /+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-action-bar bottom+ACIAPg- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-pagination+ACIAPg- +ADw-ul+AD4- +ADw-li class+AD0AIg-pageleft+ACIAPg-Page:+ADw-/li+AD4APA-li+AD4APA-a href+AD0AIg-8+AF8-54078dcd1038a017+AF8-1.html+ACI- role+AD0AIg-button+ACIAPg-1+ADw-/a+AD4APA-/li+AD4- +ADw-li+AD4APA-a href+AD0AIg-8+AF8-54078dcd1038a017+AF8-2.html+ACI- role+AD0AIg-button+ACIAPg-2+ADw-/a+AD4APA-/li+AD4- +ADw-/ul+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-navbar+ACIAPg- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-inner+ACIAPg- +ADw-br/+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-div class+AD0AIg-spacedbox+ACIAPgA8-div class+AD0AIg-adbox+ACIAPg- +ADwAIQ--- Large Footer --+AD4- +ADw-ins class+AD0AIg-adsbygoogle+ACI- style+AD0AIg-display:block+ACI- data-ad-client+AD0AIg-ca-pub-4601021536021499+ACI- data-ad-slot+AD0AIg-8598264538+ACI- data-ad-format+AD0AIg-auto+ACI- data-full-width-responsive+AD0AIg-true+ACIAPgA8-/ins+AD4- +ADw-script type+AD0-'text/javascript'+AD4- (function() +AHs- var done +AD0- false+ADs- var script +AD0- document.createElement('script')+ADs- script.async +AD0- true+ADs- script.type +AD0- 'text/javascript'+ADs- script.src +AD0- '//pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/js/adsbygoogle.js'+ADs- var createScript +AD0- setTimeout( function()+AHs- document.getElementsByTagName('HEAD').item(0).appendChild(script)+ADs- +AH0-, 400 )+ADs- script.onreadystatechange +AD0- script.onload +AD0- function(e) +AHs- if (+ACE-done +ACYAJg- (+ACE-this.readyState +AHwAfA- this.readyState +AD0APQ- 'loaded' +AHwAfA- this.readyState +AD0APQ- 'complete')) +AHs- (adsbygoogle +AD0- window.adsbygoogle +AHwAfA- +AFsAXQ-).push(+AHsAfQ-)+ADs- +AH0- +AH0AOw- +AH0-)()+ADs- +ADw-/script+AD4- +ADw-/div+AD4APA-/div+AD4- +ADw-div style+AD0AIg-margin:0 auto+ADs-clear:both+ADs-max-width:990px+ADs-text-align:center+ADs-padding:20px+ADsAIgA+-rec.autos.simulators is a usenet newsgroup formed in December, 1993. As this group was always unmoderated there may be some spam or off topic articles included. Some links do point back to +ADw-a href+AD0AIg-https://racesimcentral.net+ACIAPg-racesimcentral.net+ADw-/a+AD4- as we could not validate the original address. Please +ADw-a href+AD0AIg-https://racesimcentral.net/contact/+ACIAPg-report any+ADw-/a+AD4- pages that you believe warrant deletion from this archive (include the link in your email). RaceSimCentral.net is in no way responsible and does not endorse any of the content herein.+ADw-/div+AD4- +ADw-/body+AD4- +ADwAIQ--- 8+AF8-54078dcd1038a017+AF8-2 Fri, 07 Jan 2022 20:42:22 GMT --+AD4- +ADw-/html+AD4-