rec.autos.simulators

by **Jan Koh** » Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:21:02

I'm guessing that someone on here has experience racing on both bias ply and radial tires...if so, I'd like to talk with ya! :)

Cheers!

Jan

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:21:05

Only at an amateur, club level, Jan.
Bias on MG TC; radial on MG Midget.

Bruce.

and radial tires...

by **Jan Koh** » Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:17:16

That's ok, Bruce...can you give me some ideas about the differences between the two?

Cheers!

Jan

> Only at an amateur, club level, Jan.
> Bias on MG TC; radial on MG Midget.

> Bruce.

> > I'm guessing that someone on here has experience racing on both bias ply
> and radial tires...

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:41:53

Jan,
We are going back over a quarter of a century now, when radial-ply tyre
technology was less advanced than today, but I clearly remember that the
bias-ply tyres on my Midget released their grip earlier than the radials,
but when they did so, it was more gradual.....it wasn't a sudden loss of
adhesion, but a gradual slipping.
(I drove the Midget on new bias-ply tyres for about a year and a half,
before catching the "radial craze", when I finally had the cash to lay out
for a set of Pirelli Cinturatos - Michelin 'X's being touted as not good in
the wet.)

More recently (1995 - 2001) I had both a TC and MGB which, as well as being
normal road cars, I also used in Club motorsports - sprints, hill climbs and
time-trials.
The TC was on bias-ply Firestones and the MGB on modern
radials.....Bridgestones, I think.

I enjoyed cornering in the TC because it was possible to hang the back out -
and kick it out deliberately - in what was for me a much more controlled
operation than the 'B'. I could actually 4-wheel drift the TC and feel at
ease doing so....the speed at which I could do it was also lower than if I
had tried the same in the 'B'. :)

How the "proper" bias-ply racing tyres performed I cannot say....I never had
an opportunity to try them, but as they were treaded back then, as were
normal road tyres, perhaps the differences weren't terribly major.
Hopefully someone else can help you in that regard.

Regards,
Bruce.

between the two?

by **Jan Koh** » Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:03:10

Bruce, that's pretty much what I had surmised and heard anyway, so that's great...a few other things.

Would you say that the overall grip on old bias plys was better or worse than old radials? In other words, when they go bad,
which one goes worse?

Cheers!

Jan

by **Jan Verschuere** » Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:33:16

As I remember the racing back when bias ply faced radials on the track
(single seater and touring cars/GTs) it went like this...

Radials seemed to present a huge advantage when new, but would be passed by
bias plys over a long run if run hard at the beginning. However, when a
smart driver took care of his radials early on (and more or less held
station with those on bias plys), he might compete on equal terms with bias
plys at the end of the race or even come out on top.

In the space of something like 4 to 6 months, however, radials were
developed to a point where whatever a bias ply driver did in the latter part
of a race was too little too late. Radials entrenched the idea of A to B
ASAP into motorsport. So much so it takes near artificial means to
introduce strategy into racing nowadays.

Jan.
=---

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:07:20

Going back to when I had the Midget (1969 - 1972.......so it's *more* than
the twenty-five years I stated in my first post!) the grip offered by the
radials was definitely better than the cross-ply tyres. But when they were
pushed to the limit, they also lost their grip more suddenly than the
cross-ply's.

Both were on 4.5J rims, so there was little if any difference in tread
"footprint" size but I have a feeling that the Pirelli's were a softer
compound than the cross-ply ***....and I can't recall what brand they
were...probably Dunlop, because of that company's association with Formula
1.

The more recent comparison - that of the TC and MGB - would not be a very
good one, for the simple reason that the TC tyres were 4" rim-width whereas
the radials on the 'B were 6".

Hope this helps rather than confuses, Jan.

Regards,
Bruce.

than old radials? In other words, when they go bad, which one goes worse?

by **Ed Solhei** » Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:43:10

"Jan Kohl" said:

and radial tires...if so, I'd like to talk with ya! :)

Jan,

IIRC, there's a good article comparing radials to bias ply in Paul Van
Valkenburg's "Racecar enginerring and mechanics" .... sadly i'm at work at
the moment so I can't verify it... I will check it out later tho..

--
ed_

by **Ed Solhei** » Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:01:59

> Jan,

> IIRC, there's a good article comparing radials to bias ply in Paul Van
> Valkenburg's "Racecar enginerring and mechanics" .... sadly i'm at work
at
> the moment so I can't verify it... I will check it out later tho..

My mistake - there's no such mentioing in PvV's book at all...

Hmm.. wonder where I saw that then... ? [pondering..]

I'll let you know if I remember.

--
ed_

rec.autos.simulators

bia ply vs radials?

bia ply vs radials?

bia ply vs radials?

bia ply vs radials?

bia ply vs radials?

bia ply vs radials?

bia ply vs radials?

bia ply vs radials?

bia ply vs radials?

bia ply vs radials?